Airforums, moderation, the internet, and making a buck or two.

Many of you know that I have posted extensively over at airforums.com.  Seeing as how I have an Airstream, and an Avion truck camper of "Airstream-like" aluminum construction, it's a pretty natural fit.  Especially since, if you know where to look, you can find stuff I posted to what we now call the internet back as early as 1983.

Anyway, I've made 2,983 posts to the Airforums since I joined four years ago.  Sure, most are answers to the same questions about surge protectors and what kind of hose to use to dump tanks that seem to be prevalent on every RV board, but some are more highly technical and more specific to particular models and years.

I've recently joined maybe another half dozen frequent posters who have left Airforums due to frustrations over moderation policy.

You see, Airforums is a for-profit venture.  It isn't obvious at first, because there's a "support AIR Forums" link on every page, and they aren't part of Airstream, and a casual look around makes it look like any other forum.  But it's run by a fellow who operates a couple dozen for-profit forums on similarly narrow leisure interests.

There are two revenue sources: Vendors, who can pay for a commercial account, and regular members, who are asked to pay an annual fee in return for being able to post photos.

And it operates under a "site policy" with three provisions unlike any I've seen:
1) Criticism of vendors isn't permitted, even if accurate, relevant, and balanced.
2) Discussion of site policy, moderation, moderators decisions, etc., isn't allowed anywhere on the site.
3) Moderated threads and posts are usually deleted, rather than locked, making it impossible to see what the mods are doing.

Now, to be sure, the internet is full of web-kooks who post rants about vendors who send them the wrong part or whatever, and I get that.

But in the RV world there's wide variability in the quality of parts and service.  An honest discussion of, say, Camping World, Adventure RV, Tweety's, Dyer's RV, and Amazon is necessarily going to include cons as well as pros.  That's even more true when discussing workmanship and service scheduling at RV dealerships.

I've had a number of posts deleted because I replied to a thread started by an upset noob where I was trying to get them to settle down and understand that the world ain't perfect.  And, a discussion of the ProPride weld failure (which I've mentioned on this forum also) was closed by the mods.  It's impossible to say whether the fact that ProPride pays for a commercial account affected their thinking.

So I guess we're fortunate here that the moderation at rvforum.net is more balanced.  Unfortunately, no one wants to talk much about Aluminum repairs.

We're VERY fortunate because Ed Juge started this forum purely with the benefit of RVers in mind and passed it along to Tom Jones when he died.  Tom incurred a substantial financial burden all by himself for a long time before he permitted the very tiny ads you see above.  Donations are both accepted and encouraged, but never required.

All the moderators, sysops, whatever you want to call them are VOLUNTEERS, and give lavishly of their time and talents.  This has been my favorite place on the internet to "hang out" for 19 years now, and it just keeps getting better and better as new members join and contribute to the discussions.

Margi

That sounds exactly like the folks that bought TrawlerForum.com. And when you pin them down in private messages about exactly what was said using screen prints of the actual posts, they delete you as a member with no explanation.

The internet is a big place, I've found that life is better not being associated with some sites.

Ken

Sounds a lot like iRV2.com as well.
"For profit" websites seem to have very different priorities than most of the sites I like to visit.  Very similar disagreements moved me away (or was I kicked off, can't remember, don't care) and I really haven't missed it and I am sure they haven't missed me! 8)

bucks2 said:

That sounds exactly like the folks that bought TrawlerForum.com. And when you pin them down in private messages about exactly what was said using screen prints of the actual posts, they delete you as a member with no explanation.

The internet is a big place, I've found that life is better not being associated with some sites.

Ken

Click to expand...

Ken,

It *IS* the folks who bought TrawlerForum.com -- "Social Knowledge, LLC."  Funny how that works, huh?

Yep, I have shied away from some Internet sites because I didn't like the way that they were being run. But that's the beauty of free will. I spend most of my time right here, and find it very comfortable with lots of friendly folks.

Jammer said:

Ken,

It *IS* the folks who bought TrawlerForum.com -- "Social Knowledge, LLC."  Funny how that works, huh?

Click to expand...

Well then no wonder it sounded like Deja-Vu all over again.......

Ken

I am acquainted with the fellow who owns Social Knowledge and feel he is being maligned a bit here. He pretty much lets the staff of a site run it as they see fit.  I've never known him to insist on being nice to advertisers or that negative remarks be deleted. Most often it is the site staff, which is recruited from the membership of the site, that develops policies and decides how to enforce them.  I don't want to get into a debate about who did what, so I will say more in his or any Social Knowledge site's defense.

I've been moderating web sites and other social media for near 20 years now and have no doubt have ticked off more than a few people in that time, but there are good reasons for most web site policies and rules. We have a bunch of them here too, but our community is relatively small and most of our members - and visitors - are pretty well behaved, so we don't have to crack down very much. And we work hard to keep it that way.

This is just a view from the other side of the fence...  8)

Gary RV Roamer said:

I am acquainted with the fellow who owns Social Knowledge and feel he is being maligned a bit here. He pretty much lets the staff of a site run it as they see fit.

Click to expand...

I'm aware of at least three people who have contacted Andy directly with specific examples.  He has been sympathetic but has not intervened.

The problem, as I see it, is fundamentally a lack of transparency.  The proscription on discussing site policy and moderator actions allows for abuses. 

On TF.com there were at least two "new owners" who stated in no uncertain terms that there would be NO discussion of moderators or sponsors and their actions on the site, PERIOD. When something would totally disappear from the site, (like one half of a heated discussion) one "owner" would state that the other "owner" did it. Then the 2nd owner would claim that he did some deleting but his partner must have done the rest. And when confronted with things that disappeared totally, after denials that it ever was posted, and denials that either had removed it, and then confronted with screen shots proving that it had been there,  several of us were deleted from the group.

I have no respect for anyone or any group that can't be honest about their actions.

Ken

Why are we discussing the operative policies of another site, website, forum or whatever, which has nothing to do with our very professionally run RV Forum?  Who cares?  Tom Jones and our volunteer helpers administer the RV Forum just fine.  If you have a beef with that forum, take it to that forum and discuss it there.

Margi