Gas vs Diesel Rigs

Barryn514 said:

Yes, it is on Craigslist. He did not use his email but the one that craigslist has. When I wrote to him regarding questions and said that I was interested, then he gave me his telephone number and said that I should come see it, that the pictures did not do it justice. And it does look awesome! He did mention that someone else had put a small deposit on it and would have the balance of the money by end of month but if I was ready to buy, he would refund that other person money back and sell it to me.

The thing my wife is saying, yes it appears to be a BEAUTIFUL coach but for 85K, we could buy something 2 years old, the size we are looking at. (34-36'), full body paint and get something much newer. We have been told that the diesel will normally run $5,000+ more than gas.

Now, I was looking for something with more torque, engine in rear. Better turning radius and smoother ride. BUT, will I put on that many miles to justify diesel and want to spend that higher maintenance cost. Don't think I will be putting more than 10K miles on her the first year and less years later. I guess I am starting to talk myself out of this coach and continue my research and drive both, diesel which I have never drove. Not sure what HP my V-10 has but understand that some of the newer ones have more HP but again that is not torque.

I do thank everyone for their replies and feed back. That is why I belong to this forum because from day one, prior to purchasing our first MH, have given me a lot to think about as well as learned a lot!

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We own this same exact MH in a 2000 model; since I know exactly what this vehicle had when new I don't think the wording of the seller's ad is all that strange.  I think the person who wrote the ad doesn't fully understand some things, such as the fact that the "Mode" button on an Allison doesn't mean "memory", but I don't think he has made that many serious errors.  It sounds as if he has replaced the old satellite dish by a newer one, but he should provide info about what that is.  Also, it is likely that he has a Hurricane hydronic heating system rather than a HydroHot, but many owners don't really know much about what is actually on their coaches.

The Patriot Thunder from that period is a wonderful MH to drive.  With a 12-liter CAT in a <33,000 pound MH it drives more like a car than a MH. The engine hardly ever knows it is climbing a mountain.  The 2-stage compression brake makes it easy to come back down those mountains you roared up.  ;D  Any 2-yr old coach in this price range is probably going to have the Cummins 6.7 or 8.3 liter engines; without offending anyone, there's no comparison.  As for the quality of the interior finish of the Beaver vs what you could get in a newer coach, it's pretty difficult (try impossible) to get solid walnut cabinets, such as we have, in any coach at any price these days.

If you are still interested in this MH and have questions, feel free to PM me with them.

As for the article referenced in your post, it is so biased and full of mis-information that IMHO it isn't worth discussing further.  Even with its corrective footnotes it doesn't have the correct oil change intervals which are 15,000 miles or one year for CAT engines.  Diesels do not mind being left for months at a time and, since I winter in a humid climate, I do add an algeacide to my fuel; I think I paid $20 for a bottle of it and used less than 4 ounces for my entire tank--big deal!  It's that sort of stuff that causes me to discount the entire article.

Joel

Interesting!

With that being said, I found out after buying my present coach, it is registered as a 2002 but the VIN # came back as a 2000 chassis. Weird. Is this common?

Just got back from Northern CA and live in the San Diego are and for those that know where the Grapevine is, I didn't have any problem going over that hill in 3rd gear.

THANKS Joel!

Barryn514 said:

Interesting!

With that being said, I found out after buying my present coach, it is registered as a 2002 but the VIN # came back as a 2000 chassis. Weird. Is this common?

Just got back from Northern CA and live in the San Diego are and for those that know where the Grapevine is, I didn't have any problem going over that hill in 3rd gear.

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That's quite common.  Our Class C was registered as a 2005 but when I took it for service my Ford dealer's computers showed it as a 2004.

The picture he sent.

That's basically the same as our MH.  We happen to have a table and chairs rather than a dinette and we have a recliner rather than the J-sofa on the passenger side.  Both the second sofa and the dinette were probably options the original owner had installed.  BTW, the sofas are, almost certainly, UltraLeather, not real leather.  I see that it does have a HydroHot; as long as it works it does the same thing as my Hurricane.  The front TV looks as if "upgraded to digital" means he put a converter box in rather than a new HDTV.  Other than that, it's pretty much the way it was delivered.

All of those pictures are from Motor Home Specialist which is a consignment dealer in Alvarado, Texas near Dallas.  If he had it listed for sale with them last year it is no longer listed on their website.  I'm just thinking that if he did list it with them and it didn't sell then he may be willing to come down on his price.

Dan

OK, I'm starting to lean back toward the scam angle.  You say he is about 3 hrs away from you and you live in San Diego.  Those photos are from an RV dealer in Texas (see www.mhsrv.com) and were apparently just taken by the dealer last year based on the copyright.  Does the seller claim to be an individual seller?  Did he just purchase it from a dealer last year, put all this work in and is now selling it?  Why doesn't he have photos that he took himself?  Starting to look a little more like a scammer who pulls photos off the web and creates a fake listing.  I have a friend who discovered that his airplane was suddenly listed for sale on CL by a scammer who found a photo off the web.

Nice coach!! But... many of those pictures look like they came from the commercial site already identified by the other responders and so may not be of the actual vehicle under consideration. Still might be worth a gander if not too far away and if you can pin the advertiser down for an  actual address and see the proof of ownership while you are at it. Leaning towards scam territory and a surprise visit might reveal something interesting!!

The chassis are, more often than not, at least 1 year off. The motor home builder buys them in advance from the chassis supplier and does not only buy one at a time. So, some sit in storage for a while before having a house built on them and a 1 year difference is common , 2, not so much.... 3, on occasion, but may be more common now since the recent market slowdown  and from what I have observed.

Scott is right about the pictures.  I had that done to me once with a house I was selling.  Someone took the pictures off the web and listed it for rent and wanted 2 months rent plus a deposit in advance.  It was even listed on the web at the same time I had the house listed for sale.  Still not saying it's a scam, but if he just bought it from the dealer in Texas last year I would want to find out more about why he is selling it so quickly.

Dan

I'm not saying this can't be a scam, but the detail in the ad is far more than the consignment dealer would ever provide. We had considered several coaches at that dealership and there is a lot less detail provided.  Several people have suggested possible scenarios and some have been quite vocal about why this can't be real. 

However, not everything said in the posts is correct either.  For example, if the MH is owned and registered to a Montana LLC then ownership of the RV can be accomplished by "sale" of the LLC to a new owner with no transfer of the vehicle itself being required.  I'm not saying that owning a MH through an LLC is appropriate for you (it doesn't sound as if it would be) but the fact that there would no transfer taxes or fees (other than for changing ownership of the LLC) is correct. 

Therefore, if all it required was a 3-hour drive to see it, I might make that investment of time.  It is possible, as someone suggested, that this person bought the MH from the dealership and put money into it, only to decide they didn't use it enough or weren't well enough to make use of it.  This might explain why there are a few inaccuracies in the description--the writer may have been only a short time owner.  He may have receipts for everything he has done, but not necessarily for the life of the MH.

I have owned a Class A, Class C, and a few trucks and travel trailers.  There is another aspect to gas vs. diesel that effects (at least) me.  I really get tired driving a rig that seems to struggle and downshifts a lot.  My diesel truck pulls my trailer so effortlessly and seldom, if ever downshifts. I enjoy it, am relaxed, not so fatiguing.  My gassers seemed to wear me out although there are really no difference in physical effort for me with either motor.  Anyway, my concern for the present and the future is the increased use of ethanol in the gasoline.  I live and RV in the corn (subsidy) belt where higher ethanol content is in the future.  It weakens the performance IMHO radically.  I am contemplating a new gas motorhome with a V-10 Ford, but my fear of this lower energy fuel and poorer mpg as well as performance in the future makes me hesitant.
Anybody else feel that this can be a significant issue for gas rigs in the future?

Yea, dp's drive better... Ride better.... Handle wind better and the list goes on.  But to me when I was shopping it wasnt worth the extra $100k plus for a new comparable rv.  Yes I do wish just about every time I go anywhere in my fleetwood bounder 38p that I had 500-1500 ft lb of torque more then I have with my workhorse engine.  However for the few miles I drive every year (purchased in 09 and have 18k miles) its not worth it to me. 

What I would like is a diesel puller.... Same chassis I have now with a more economical Diesel engine up front.  Since I do not drive 10-20k miles a year the superior dp chassis just doesn't interest me.    I drove one diesel pusher when I was shopping back in 09, a providence 39s and it was no louder or quieter vs my gas coach.  What made the dp loud was the turbo spooling sound...... 

jagnweiner said:

OK, I'm starting to lean back toward the scam angle.  You say he is about 3 hrs away from you and you live in San Diego.  Those photos are from an RV dealer in Texas (see www.mhsrv.com) and were apparently just taken by the dealer last year based on the copyright.  Does the seller claim to be an individual seller?  Did he just purchase it from a dealer last year, put all this work in and is now selling it?  Why doesn't he have photos that he took himself?  Starting to look a little more like a scammer who pulls photos off the web and creates a fake listing.  I have a friend who discovered that his airplane was suddenly listed for sale on CL by a scammer who found a photo off the web.

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I purchase my 2006 Mountain Aire from MHSRV and all the pictures (200 plus) where very accurate. I even asked for specific pictures that where taken and emails to me in a few hours. I also asked very specific questions and took a ton of notes. I live in Idaho and that is a two day drive so I wanted to be sure about the coach before I went to Texas.

I cannot say enough about the truthfulness of them when I purchased from them. But this is just my experience with them.

The whole process was over two months from when I first contacted them to going to see the coach.
Do your due diligence.

My salemans name was Cowboy by the way.

Good Luck!

We'll have to wait to hear from the OP, but my understanding is that he is not dealing with MHSRV, but rather with someone who claims to be a private seller, but is using photos taken by MHSRV.  Hence the suspicion of the seller, not suspicion of MHSRV.  But perhaps I am mistaken.

I've owned gas and diesel and there is no way I'll ever go back to gas.

I would drive three hours to see this coach. Or most any coach I was seriously interested in buying. Make a weekend of it - with the wife. That way, if you decide not to buy it, you still had a weekend getaway!

Your biggest risk is that it will be so alluring in its elegance that you fall in lust.

A newer coach for the same $$ will likely give you more slides and thus more interior room, but will be lesser in many other respects, e.g. fit & finish, quality of materials, throughout, technical stuff like individual water line shutoff valves and well-labeled wiring harness, etc.  No two year old diesel for $85k is going to be in the same league with this coach. In fact, even an entry  level diesel pusher will be about $200k these days, so a two year old one for $85k is not really likely.  For $85k in a diesel pusher, you are probably looking at 2004-2007 vintage.

He has invited me up to see the coach and given me his tel# and I did a "reverse phone look up" on internet and it also give the address where he said he lived and the name matches his name that is signed the email so I think this might not be a scam. Could be many reason why those pictures had that Business name on them but I will ask. Maybe he bought it last year and now telling it.

This is his latest email from some of the questions I asked. I did write him back and asked if I could call him since he said his wife just had major surgery, he hasn't gotten back to me.

Hi Barry,
Yes it is full body paint, I have receipts on most everything, everything is working fine, I have all the manuals for everything about the coach just like when you buy one new, and it gets better mileage than your V10. I had a Fleetwood with that engine and another Fleetwood with the Chevy 8.1 vortec motor and then another older coach with the 454 Chevy and this diesel beats all of them for mileage. It has a display on the dash which shows everything when driving such as mileage, torque, turbo boost and anything about when you are driving it. The best mileage is when you are on a straight highway or freeway with no hills and it will get an honest 11 mpg. Going up hills etc will of course drop it down to 8 mpg. It is designed for long haul and with many miles of use with good maintenance. This is the best coach I have ever had and elegant also. There are more bells and whistles in this thing and more than most new ones unless you pay a lot of money for one. It is the top of the line in Beaver Patriots style so they are hard to come by even when you are looking for an older one. I will attach more pictures for you to see in this email. Thanks and let me know when you are able to get here. We go to San Diego quite a bit since my inlaws live there. It takes about 3 hours from Poway which is near San Diego and Escondido. Thanks and will see you soon unless the other guy gets here first but doubt it. My wife has just been through a major operation so I must stay close to help her with her pain and moving around etc. Check out the other pictures.

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I can vouch for the fact that this MH will get 8-8.5 mpg over a wide range of driving conditions.

It could be as simple as he had no pictures of the inside, at least none as good as the professionally done ones and, if so, it may represent his coach if the trim etc are all similar or the same. Well worth a trip if you are interested and if the price asked is within ballpark range. Judging by his note, he seems to be knowledgeable about this kind of coach too.