Exhaust Headers - 460 Ford

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Wavery

Wavery

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Joined
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I've been doing lots of research on headers. I know that the Banks system is the best but I have a hard time justifying $1200 for just the headers over $765 for the Thorely headers.

I have a guy that will build me a custom dual 3" exhaust from the headers back for $500 and installing the headers for $200. I don't see the upside to buying Banks "Power Pak" for $2500 (Incl tax  and S&H).

So I'm looking at the Thorley headers plus custom exhaust for $1465 (including $700 labor)
or
The Banks headers installed with the custom exhaust for $1900 (including $700 labor)
or
Banks Power Pak (which includes their custom fit & tuned pipes, muffler, hangers clamps etc) for $3,000 (including $900 labor).

I realize the Banks Power Pak includes that Mickey Mouse air induction set-up but I think I can design something just as good or better for a lot less. I'm just not impressed with that part of it.

I'd sure like to hear from some of the guys that are using the Thorley Headers (or others) on their rigs (pros and cons).

BTW.... this vehicle does not have a catalytic converter so I don't think that installing a dual exhaust is an issue (would appreciate comments on that as well).
 
Save your money.  Unless you like a lot of noise your best to keep stock.  Besides they will do nothing for you unless you do a monster build including changes to the intake system other than lighten your wallet.
 
donn said:
Save your money.  Unless you like a lot of noise your best to keep stock.  Besides they will do nothing for you unless you do a monster build including changes to the intake system other than lighten your wallet.
Click to expand...
The stock Ford 460 exhaust manifold bolts have a habit of breaking and it's my understanding that it's not a case of "IF"... it seems to be a case of "when". When the manifold bolts break, it seems to shortly distort the manifold and soon damage the head. This is all something that I would like to avoid if possible.

The other issue is the exhaust on this vehicle is extremely under sized and really takes away from the torque required to climb grades.

My muffler shop says that the muflers that he uses are as quiet as the stock and because he will do a dual exhaust, he claims it should be even quieter.
 
I always thought free'er breathing exhaust was for hp and restriction was for torque. There is a bulletin for p30 454 on how to cut the stock manifolds to prevent cracking and sheared bolts, torque values for the bolts is surprisingly low as well. Maybe the same can be done with Fords

Bill
 
I opted for the complete Gibson SS 3" exhaust with headers and two flow through mufflers for $1300 back in 2006.  Of course, I had to install it myself.  By installing it myself, I saved enough to buy the Banks Trans Command Module for the E40D.  I've been more than satisfied with the results of both.

I'm not sure I would have tackled those headers if a couple of my manifold bolts had not already been broken and leaking.
 
Just Lou said:
I'm not sure I would have tackled those headers if a couple of my manifold bolts had not already been broken and leaking.
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That's exactly what I want to avoid. My engine only has 20K miles on it. I've already removed and re-torqued the manifold bolts on the right side. They came out easy and I put anti-seize on them... I don't want to have to do this job in the middle of nowhere. I'd rather do it at my convenience, while it is relatively simple then just wait for it to fail and make the process more complicated.

Lou..... does yours have an air injection pump? Mine does and I can't find Gibson headers for air injection.
 
I will install headers once I get this coach of mine in the condition I want it. Headers will not kill torque at low end, the engine will be more responsive all the thru the  power band since you are using the stock cam which is for pulling heavy loads, not top end power. Gas mileage should be measurable unless you are stepping into it more now that you feel the difference and maybe like the sound of a new exhaust tone. I have installed headers on a few cars and am always pleased with the results.
 
Wayne,

Banks, Gibson & Thorley exhaust systems will all perform admirably. The difference in cost is mostly durability. Banks uses 408 stainless steel for all of its components. Banks uses a 5/8" thick header flange, so no gaskets are required any where in the system. Banks supplies heat shields for the starter and the components that run in the left frame rail. The "mickey mouse induction system" that you mention, does have one very positive component. The new air cleaner lid corrects an air flow flaw and does contribute to the over all package.  The banks system is developed on a dynometer and the HP & torque improvements are advertised. Not so with the other systems.
So there you go, it like chocolate or vanilla ice cream. Pick the flavor that you like and enjoy.
OH! lets not forget those 3 snazzy Banks Power, raised letter decals that come with the kit.

Richard
 
rls7201 said:
Wayne,

Banks, Gibson & Thorley exhaust systems will all perform admirably. The difference in cost is mostly durability. Banks uses 408 stainless steel for all of its components. Banks uses a 5/8" thick header flange, so no gaskets are required any where in the system. Banks supplies heat shields for the starter and the components that run in the left frame rail. The "mickey mouse induction system" that you mention, does have one very positive component. The new air cleaner lid corrects an air flow flaw and does contribute to the over all package.  The banks system is developed on a dynometer and the HP & torque improvements are advertised. Not so with the other systems.
So there you go, it like chocolate or vanilla ice cream. Pick the flavor that you like and enjoy.
OH! lets not forget those 3 snazzy Banks Power, raised letter decals that come with the kit.

Richard
Click to expand...
I attended General Motors Institute from 1969 -1973. During my courses there, our class was instrumental in designing the Air Induction system used in the Pontiac Trans-Am (and some other models). It was a fun project that I learned a lot about venturi effects and other clever air movement techniques. I think that it might be fun to mess with that aspect of this project. If I was a little younger, I might even try installing my Paxton Supercharger on it (it's from my 1957 Studebaker Golden Hawk).....

Anyway, I'm not going to be do much street racing with this thing  ;D....... I'm just trying to avoid the inevitable. My experience with headers is that they used to rust away in about 3 years at the same time, cooking the plug wires and anything else close by.. I'm hoping that the ceramic coating might help avoid that.
 
I had the full Banks kit on a 96 Ford 460, powering a huge (for its day) tag axle Southwind coach. All I can say is that it performed amazingly well, compared to standard 460's. It needed more tranny, though. The stock E4OD, even with the Banks shift mod gadget on it, just wasn't enough.  I wanted to put the Gear Vendors Over/under drive aux transmission on it, but took an opportunity to trade up instead.
 
If your are going to have them ceramic coated I recommend Jet Hot. I've had several done locally and none have compared to the coating by them. Like wise the price is higher also and they have to be shipped to them.
 
Please insist(in writing) that your mufflers will-not be welded to the exhaust pipes: a small tack would be ok. 3" pipes are not
easily bent.... inquire  about his bending machine. Does he have a rack suited for RVs? I'm not sure quiet is what your looking
for in an enhanced system. The headers will increase the exhaust flow and the last place you want any restriction is in your mufflers!
The best potential for the shops profit is the parts, "turbo mufflers" need to be named by brand; Walker makes a good product.

Dan

P.S. tip the installer, that is not an easy job
 
dan2 said:
Please insist(in writing) that your mufflers will-not be welded to the exhaust pipes: a small tack would be ok. 3" pipes are not
easily bent.... inquire  about his bending machine. Does he have a rack suited for RVs? I'm not sure quiet is what your looking
for in an enhanced system. The headers will increase the exhaust flow and the last place you want any restriction is in your mufflers!
The best potential for the shops profit is the parts, "turbo mufflers" need to be named by brand; Walker makes a good product.

Dan

P.S. tip the installer, that is not an easy job
Click to expand...
Thanks. I actually know the owner of the muffler shop. He does a lot of custom "Hot rod" work and installs a lot of headers. He's also installed a lot of headers on M/Hs.

My preference was to keep the single exhaust but the biggest die that he has for his hydraulic pipe bender is 3". Single exhaust would have to be 3 1/2 "  :-\.

There will be no welding on the mufflers  ;).
 
WOW, good score. 

Gary, you say not enough tranny with the command mod.  In what way, did the extra power harm the trans?

Jolene wants me to get the Banks, heck she asked me if we could get it for our Westy Van. 

My thought is that it would be handy out here in the west, but do I want to invest that much for those few times we get slow at the top of a pass we still get over?  I have about 68,000 miles and don't want to over stress the system.

 
The problem with the E40D is the big gap between second and third gear, not any generic weakness.

The Banks Trans Command helps to maintain revs with quick up shifts, but can't help with that gear ratio gap.

The Gear Vendors over/under would be perfect for our old beasts.  It would cut that gap in half.  It's just too expensive for me at this late date in the life of my '97 Bounder AND it's driver.
 
I had the torque converter changed to one comparable to one used for the Allison  :)  Gary, Is this the weak (est) link?

Dan 
 
I'm not going to go to any more big expenses (like transmission upgrades etc) on this 15-year-old coach. :eek:

My main reason (as stated) for doing the headers is to avoid problems. I guess that it's just the long time sailor in me..... there were no boat-yards at sea  ;).......

Our plan is to drive this thing to Alaska next summer and there are long stretches with no mechanical help and if there is, I can't afford it (and would fix it myself anyway). I carry a lot of tools and spare parts (belts, hoses, filters etc) but carrying a spare set of exhaust manifolds?? :eek:. Changing them along side the highway doesn't appeal to me any more than having to work on my engine out at sea did. I tend to make sure that all my mechanical is "up to snuff" before leaving port.  ;D

This exhaust manifold issue seems to be the biggest "Achilles Heel" on these 460s. If I can overcome that, I hope that I'll be happy with this coach.  ;D
 
Wavery said:
Our plan is to drive this thing to Alaska next summer and there are long stretches with no mechanical help and if there is, I can't afford it (and would fix it myself anyway). I carry a lot of tools and spare parts (belts, hoses, filters etc) but carrying a spare set of exhaust manifolds?? :eek: . Changing them along side the highway doesn't appeal to me any more than having to work on my engine out at sea did. I tend to make sure that all my mechanical is "up to snuff" before leaving port.  ;D
Click to expand...
...funny thing about the unexpected, it happens when you least expect it.

If your Alaska trip goes anything like mine did, nothing, that you have a spare part for, will break, but something else will.  Actually my 14K mile trip was a virtually problem free trip of a lifetime.
 
Just Lou said:
...funny thing about the unexpected, it happens when you least expect it.

If your Alaska trip goes anything like mine did, nothing, that you have a spare part for, will break, but something else will.  Actually my 14K mile trip was a virtually problem free trip of a lifetime.
Click to expand...
That's the way that we want ours to be. We are going for the good time.... sometimes it takes some precautions to keep good times from turning into bad times though.

When I was sailing, I was constantly coming across cruising sailboats stuck in remote areas of the world with something broken. Inevitably, I either had the part to help them out or had the ability to make the part (I had a full machine shop on board). I would rather be the person that can help someone else out of a dilemma than the person in a dilemma waiting for someone else to come rescue me.
 
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