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Author Topic: Class C coach battery and Generator  (Read 6678 times)

03 cobra sb

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Class C coach battery and Generator
« on: May 15, 2013, 02:27:05 PM »
I have a 1990 Itasca class 'c' . My question is if your are dry camping and are using your genset to run the coach ie AC, microwave etc. . At night so you dont have to hear the genset and just need the coach battery for water pump lights, does the converter switch it automatically or is their  a manual way of doing this. I know the new RV's have a switch to do this, but how about the older ones. BTW the batteries is getting charged from the genset and is working properly. I did search but didnt find any solid answers to this issue. Thank you for the help.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 03:41:05 PM by 03 cobra sb »
90 Itasca 27' Class 'C'
Two of us and 1 lazy Basset named 'Lady'
92 Ford Ranger 'Toad"
Colorado

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2013, 02:51:07 PM »
You are mixing and misusing terminology here.  You probably don't even have an INverter.

The CONverter does charge your house battery when the generator is running (or when you are plugged to shore power).  There is NO switching required to run the lights and water pump from the batteries when you stop the generator.  It is automatic.

Most class A's do have a switch (battery disconnect) to prevent many things from drawing current from the batteries, but I'm not shure if that is common on Class Cs or not.  My old '85 Tioga, did not.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2013, 02:53:05 PM »
I have a 1990 Itasca class 'c' . My question is if your are dry camping and are using your genset to run the coach ie AC, microwave etc. . At night so you dont have to hear the genset and just need the coach battery for water pump lights, does the inverter switch it automatically or is their  a manual way of doing this. I know the new RV's have a switch to do this, but how about the older ones. BTW the batteries is getting charged from the genset and is working properly. I did search but didnt find any solid answers to this issue. Thank you for the help.
I think that your question is, "does the converter switch it automatically or is their  a manual way of doing this?"

The 12V items in your coach always run off of your batteries. The converter is in play while plugged into shore power and running your genset. Basically, the converter just keeps your battery from running down while using your 12V items......... so the answer to your question is, "Yes your converter is automatic (for all intents and purposes)".




**** oops "Just Lou" beat me to it....... ;D
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Bob Buchanan

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2013, 03:41:51 PM »
   I believe on that vintage of coaches the converter does just that - it converts a portion of the A/C to DC as it comes in from shore power or from your generator. That is why it is called a converter. And it is my understanding that is where the DC items in your coach get their power - at that time. When you turn the generator off or unplug from shore power, the battery takes over and supplies DC to the coach.

Your converter also has a battery charger built into it. So the converter really isn't charging the batteries. The charger in the converter is charging the batteries. When on genset or shore power, it charges your batteries automatically - as you have indicated happens.
Bob (fulltimer - Rocklin, CA residency)
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Wavery

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 04:00:30 PM »
   I believe on that vintage of coaches the converter does just that - it converts a portion of the A/C to DC as it comes in from shore power or from your generator. That is why it is called a converter. And it is my understanding that is where the DC items in your coach get their power - at that time. When you turn the generator off or unplug from shore power, the battery takes over and supplies DC to the coach.

Your converter also has a battery charger built into it. So the converter really isn't charging the batteries. The charger in the converter is charging the batteries. When on genset or shore power, it charges your batteries automatically - as you have indicated happens.
I don't believe that is accurate.  The converter has only one part to it that converts 110V to 13.2V-13.8V on that older rig. It has a single transformer that does the conversion and that transformer is a lousy battery charger that tops out @ ~13.8V.

The later model converters have actual 3-stage battery chargers in them. If there is no battery in the coach and the only demand is lights and 12V appliances, the converter will stay at 13.2V (just like the old ones). If there is a battery connected to it, the converter senses the load from the battery and will charge the battery accordingly (in stages) but the 12V lights and appliances are still running off that one source.
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 05:00:26 PM »
Be careful there Wayne.  While Bob's description of early converters, and their operational characteristics, was common at the time for some manufacturers, it was by no means "the standard". 

With that said, I'm going to predict that the technical gurus here will could point out more "inaccuracies" in your narrative than in Bob's. ;)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:05:18 PM by Just Lou »
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 05:11:21 PM »
Be careful there Wayne.  While Bob's description of early converters, and their operational characteristics, was common at the time for some manufacturers, it was by no means "the standard". 

With that said, I'm going to predict that the technical gurus here will could point out more "inaccuracies" in your narrative than in Bob's. ;)
That's what the forum is all about... right??

If one person posts an inaccuracy, that stimulates discussion..... ;D ..... No harm, no foul..... unless someone is really thin skinned. It wouldn't be the 1st time that I was corrected on this forum. That's what makes it a great forum.  ;D

Actually, after reading Bob's post again, I think that he may have meant to say, "Your generator also has a battery charger built into it."..... If that's the case, it was a simple typo and I agree with his post..... I just couldn't figure it out at 1st.... :o
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 05:15:44 PM by Wavery »
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 05:28:23 PM »
Now you've really lost me.  I've never seen an on-board generator with a built in battery charger.

BTW - I was just trying, unskillfully evidently, to lightheartedly point out some possible discrepancies in your description of both the older and the newer converter chargers in use today.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Bob Buchanan

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 06:02:28 PM »
Actually, after reading Bob's post again, I think that he may have meant to say, "Your generator also has a battery charger built into it."..... If that's the case, it was a simple typo and I agree with his post..... I just couldn't figure it out at 1st.... :o

    The genset had nothing to do with the charging - other than when turned on supplies the AC for the charger portion of those old magnatek converters. If on shore power, that is where the charger gets it's AC. Charging in those days of converting was not as part of the converted AC to DC. Again, it was always my understanding that when on shore or genset, the major portion of the AC went to the Coach AC needs and the rest was converted to DC for the coaches DC needs. None of it went to the battery.  And part of the AC powered the charger that was built into the converter.

The chargers were not very good other than to boil batteries. Magantek has mulit stage replacement charging units. My earliest experience was with a '94 - so perhaps they were different in '90. I have had that converter type in 4 rigs. Each time I have disabled the charger portion (ususally via a breaker) and installed my 40amp Statpower 3 stage charger and a separate inverter on a bulkhead close to the batteries.

I also understand that the converted DC in newer units "is" part of the charging scenario.

Quote
If one person posts an inaccuracy, that stimulates discussion..... ;D ..... No harm, no foul..... unless someone is really thin skinned. It wouldn't be the 1st time that I was corrected on this forum. That's what makes it a great forum.  ;D

Agreed!!!    :)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:06:05 PM by Bob Buchanan »
Bob (fulltimer - Rocklin, CA residency)
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Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2013, 06:11:29 PM »
What confused me was this statement,"So the converter really isn't charging the batteries. The charger in the converter is charging the batteries."  :o

There is only 1, 110V to 12V conversion taking place in the converter. it converts 110V to 13.?V and sends that 13.?V current to the fuse bus. From there, it goes to the house circuits and battery ........ maybe I'm just not getting what you meant.  ??? and the OP is probably totally confused by now because it really doesn't matter. The bottom line is, the converter charges the batteries and powers the house while the genset is running or on shore power.....
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:14:54 PM by Wavery »
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

03 cobra sb

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 06:14:28 PM »
   I believe on that vintage of coaches the converter does just that - it converts a portion of the A/C to DC as it comes in from shore power or from your generator. That is why it is called a converter. And it is my understanding that is where the DC items in your coach get their power - at that time. When you turn the generator off or unplug from shore power, the battery takes over and supplies DC to the coach.

Your converter also has a battery charger built into it. So the converter really isn't charging the batteries. The charger in the converter is charging the batteries. When on genset or shore power, it charges your batteries automatically - as you have indicated happens.

I wanted to hear what others have with the older coaches. Everything works except the auto transfer back to the coach battery. Trying to figure out if I have a bad converter.
90 Itasca 27' Class 'C'
Two of us and 1 lazy Basset named 'Lady'
92 Ford Ranger 'Toad"
Colorado

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 06:17:07 PM »
I wanted to hear what others have with the older coaches. Everything works except the auto transfer back to the coach battery. Trying to figure out if I have a bad converter.
You probably have a blown fuse or bad circuit breaker. Do all of your lights work off the battery without any 110V input (either from shore power or generator)?
BTW...... on the older models, you may have a fuse right at the battery for your house current. Is your house battery mounted in the coach or in the engine compartment?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:20:21 PM by Wavery »
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Bob Buchanan

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    • RV Space Manager reservation SW <c>
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 07:04:05 PM »
What confused me was this statement,"So the converter really isn't charging the batteries. The charger in the converter is charging the batteries."  :o

There is only 1, 110V to 12V conversion taking place in the converter. it converts 110V to 13.?V and sends that 13.?V current to the fuse bus. From there, it goes to the house circuits and battery ........ maybe I'm just not getting what you meant.  ??? and the OP is probably totally confused by now because it really doesn't matter. The bottom line is, the converter charges the batteries and powers the house while the genset is running or on shore power.....

Not sure how I could word that more clearly, Wayne. The converter converts a portion of the incoming AC to DC. And, yes, it goes to the house circuits and fuse panel. But in those units, it did not go to the battery. You say it does, I say, IMO, it doesn't. My statement, "So the converter really isn't charging the batteries. The charger in the converter is charging the batteries." is about a clear as I can state that to you.

Do you understand that as part of that converter there was/is a battery charger built in?  It is powered by AC from either the genset or shorepower. You seem to be writing that the batteries are charged by a portion of the converted DC - and not as part of an AC powered charger. Is that the case?

You've written that what I posted may be inaccurate, commented that I must have meant something else, and now that I am confusing you. So am just trying to figure exactly what it is that I have written that is inaccurate.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 07:06:30 PM by Bob Buchanan »
Bob (fulltimer - Rocklin, CA residency)
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Bob Buchanan

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 07:33:36 PM »
I have a 1990 Itasca class 'c' . My question is if your are dry camping and are using your genset to run the coach ie AC, microwave etc. . At night so you dont have to hear the genset and just need the coach battery for water pump lights, does the converter switch it automatically or is their  a manual way of doing this. I know the new RV's have a switch to do this, but how about the older ones. BTW the batteries is getting charged from the genset and is working properly. I did search but didnt find any solid answers to this issue. Thank you for the help.

The genset isn't charging the batteries. IMO, (and Wayne and I disagree on this), if you have the same converter that I have had in a '94 Winny and a '96 Winny, the batteries are charged by the AC powered charger that is built into your converter. So whenever you run the genset, that charger is charging the batteries.

When you turn off the genset, the switching from the converted AC to DC running your DC lights and such to getting their DC from the batteries should happened automatically. If your batteries are still a bit down when you shut down the genset, the lights will usually go from very bright to much dimmer. That is because the converter supplied DC is much stronger than what is left in the batteries when the switch is complete.

You write that the batteries are charging OK, but also asking how to switch to the batteries - so, for example, when you turn off the genset, do the DC lights stay on? If so, the auto switch worked, or, is everything dead DC wise when you turn off the genset?
Bob (fulltimer - Rocklin, CA residency)
Current Location
My Photo Album
Business Website

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 07:34:48 PM »
Do you understand that as part of that converter there was/is a battery charger built in?

I was not aware of that...... I have replaced the transformer in a few of those old converters (many years ago). I haven't seen one with 2 separate transformers but I suppose they could exist. I just can't imagine why.

It is powered by AC from either the genset or shorepower. You seem to be writing that the batteries are charged by a portion of the converted DC - and not as part of an AC powered charger. Is that the case?
That is the only way that I have ever seen the older ones operate. The converter puts out 13.?V and voltage goes to a single positive buss bar. On that buss bar is a terminal that goes to the battery. When the coach has AC power, that power goes to a circuit breaker for the converter. When that breaker has power, it goes to the converter which converts AC to DC which then goes directly to the same buss bar that the battery is connected to. The converter barely puts out enough voltage to keep a full battery charged (on the ones that I've seen) but is more than adequate to keep the lights on. When there is no current coming from the converter, the battery is the source for DC current.... no switching involved on most although I have seen some with switches........ that's on the old ones that I worked on.... not saying all of them.

I have seen solid state converters where thee is a separate charging circuit.

My statement was, "I don't believe that is accurate."....... that was not meant as an insult or attack on anyone....... it was a statement of what I believe is accurate as to my personal experience. As I later stated.... "It wouldn't be the 1st time that I was corrected on this forum. That's what makes it a great forum.  ;D"
[/quote]
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 07:37:33 PM »
The genset isn't charging the batteries. IMO, (and Wayne and I disagree on this),
Actually we don't disagree on it. I just thought that it may have been a typo, which you later explained it wasn't....... I do know that some old gensets have a separate 12V charging circuit...... didn't think that was the case here but just didn't know.... ;D
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Charlie 5320

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 08:05:05 PM »
The 6300 series converter/charger most certainly had 2 different  actions, with 2 different output voltages. I just took one out of my 95 Challenger, and went with a 9260 which is claimed to have 4 modes. The output is determined by battery voltage according to the manual that came with it.
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 08:23:23 PM »
The 6300 series converter/charger most certainly had 2 different  actions, with 2 different output voltages. I just took one out of my 95 Challenger, and went with a 9260 which is claimed to have 4 modes. The output is determined by battery voltage according to the manual that came with it.
Here's the guts to a 6300 that I replaced for a friend a few years ago...... Only one transformer. One set of wires going to the 12V bus bar.

I took out the "Converter" portion and installed a Progressive Dynamics converter with a 3-stage smart charger.....
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 08:31:56 PM by Wavery »
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 08:27:22 PM »
"What we have here, is failure to communicate."

Sometimes specifics can be as misleading as generalities.

As you will see from the attached diagram, the 63xx Magnetek has ONE AC to DC converter (the transformer and associated rectifier diode pack).  It does/did have two outputs.
  • One output fed the DC (converted AC directly to the fuse/distribution panel.
  • The DC was also directed to a requlated  and adjustable section (the charger section) and on to the batteries.
One converter, two outputs.

The OP should note that his vintage converter/charger would have only one relay on the output stage (not two) which provides the single point of failure he is apparantly seeing.

IF his batteries are being charged from the converter/charger, BUT the batteries are not being connected to the distribution panel when the rig is unplugged, I would say that relay (RY1) is not making the connection through it's n/c contacts.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 08:34:16 PM »
Sorry about the double post of the diagram in the previous reply.

For the benefit of 92GA, the two outputs of the 63XX should in no way be confused with, or compared to, the multiple charging stages of the PD9260.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

kennyshark

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 08:36:39 PM »
All Gensets have a built in alternator, not a big one, but enough to charge the starting battery, because not all gensets start off the "starting" battery, some have their own starting battery, I have seen this on large conversion coaches. The "converter" is basically a transformer, some have better "smart" battery chargers built in but old ones like mine (1984) just pump 3Amps into the batteries whether they need it or not, it's not regulated like an alternator or (good) battery charger. I run all my batteries into a heavy duty "Blue Sea" battery switch, then installed a "Smart" battery isolator, it charges whichever battery bank needs it with the "starting" battery having priority. So when I'm sitting plugged into shore power OR the generator is running I switch the batteries to OFF then the automatic "three stage" battery charger does the job, but when running down the road the alternator charges all the batteries accordingly, the converter just runs everything (12volt) when I'm on shore power/generator.
 

Charlie 5320

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2013, 08:41:02 PM »
I know that Lou. That's why I choose the 9260. I don't know if all 6300 series had 2 different out puts, but mine did. Both had different voltages when measured. I know that my batteries are fully charged now and haven't had to add water all winter.
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

03 cobra sb

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2013, 08:54:26 PM »
You probably have a blown fuse or bad circuit breaker. Do all of your lights work off the battery without any 110V input (either from shore power or generator)?
BTW...... on the older models, you may have a fuse right at the battery for your house current. Is your house battery mounted in the coach or in the engine compartment?

Coach battery is in engine compartment
90 Itasca 27' Class 'C'
Two of us and 1 lazy Basset named 'Lady'
92 Ford Ranger 'Toad"
Colorado

03 cobra sb

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2013, 08:55:23 PM »
You probably have a blown fuse or bad circuit breaker. Do all of your lights work off the battery without any 110V input (either from shore power or generator)?
BTW...... on the older models, you may have a fuse right at the battery for your house current. Is your house battery mounted in the coach or in the engine compartment?

all 12v works only with shore or generator
90 Itasca 27' Class 'C'
Two of us and 1 lazy Basset named 'Lady'
92 Ford Ranger 'Toad"
Colorado

03 cobra sb

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2013, 08:57:10 PM »

You write that the batteries are charging OK, but also asking how to switch to the batteries - so, for example, when you turn off the genset, do the DC lights stay on? If so, the auto switch worked, or, is everything dead DC wise when you turn off the genset?

all is dead
90 Itasca 27' Class 'C'
Two of us and 1 lazy Basset named 'Lady'
92 Ford Ranger 'Toad"
Colorado

Wavery

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 09:04:26 PM »
all 12v works only with shore or generator
That means that,

1. the battery is dead (which you state it isn't)
2. there is an open circuit on either the positive or negative side of the battery.
3. there is a blown fuse at the converter.

I would start by looking for a bad ground wire connection from the battery to the frame.
You might also put your voltmeter on the battery with everything off, then turn on some lights and check the voltage again. Just because a battery shows fully charged after charging doesn't mean that the battery is good. If the voltage drops more than a couple tenths of a volt when turning on the lights, the battery could be shot and not even be able to light a light bulb.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 09:08:52 PM by Wavery »
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2013, 09:10:07 PM »
all is dead

You said in your initial post that you knew the shore power and/or generator were charging your battery.  Is that still true?

If yes, then the problem can only be the relay that I pointed to on the diagram.  DC voltage is NOT directional.  If it will flow from converter/charger to the battery, it will also flow back when the converter is off.

It simply cannot be a blown fuse or circuit breaker if your original statement is true.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Charlie 5320

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2013, 09:13:30 PM »
Or the relay that Lou, suggests is not working. Could also have a bad circuit breaker, from the battery to the power panel. My coach has circuit breakers near the batteries. Some of those breakers are resettable some reset by themselves. Look at the wires going from the battery to the power panel to see if you have the circuit breaker. Little rectangle looking thingy, with 2 post. See if you have voltage on both posts.
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

Wavery

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  • Fallbrook, California.......... (San Diego County)
Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2013, 09:15:09 PM »

It simply cannot be a blown fuse or circuit breaker if your original statement is true.
How is that? There has to be a fuse (or timed breaker) between the battery and the converter.

Did we ever determine which converter you actually have?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 09:17:22 PM by Wavery »
Wayne
Wife, Carolyn...... 5 kids.... 19 grandkids.
1998 33' Winnebago Adventurer ('97 Ford 460 V8, F53 chassis) 33WQ -Banks PowerPak, Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer, Monroe Gas-Magnum RV Shocks
Retired GM Service Manager driving a Ford....What's the world coming too??

kennyshark

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2013, 09:18:23 PM »
The fuseable link between the battery and the converter is blown, The "coach" battery will stay charged when the engine is running, BUT the converter will NOT Charge the starting battery, there is a solenoid that isolates the batteries when the key is off.

Charlie 5320

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2013, 09:24:32 PM »
When did Winnebago start charging the house battery from the alternator? My 80 Itasca did not, but it would charge from the BFA gen set.
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2013, 09:34:49 PM »
I have a 1990 Itasca class 'c' . My question is if your are dry camping and are using your genset to run the coach ie AC, microwave etc. . At night so you dont have to hear the genset and just need the coach battery for water pump lights, does the converter switch it automatically or is their  a manual way of doing this. I know the new RV's have a switch to do this, but how about the older ones. BTW the batteries is getting charged from the genset and is working properly. I did search but didnt find any solid answers to this issue. Thank you for the help.

Note the OP's original post.

My replies simply gave the OP credit for stating fact.  If the converter is indeed charging the batteries, there cannot be a blown fuse, tripped breaker or burned fusible link... period.  The current goes to, and returns from, the battery on the same path.... see the diagram.

If it's only the engine alternator that's charging the house batteries (as kennyshark is so sure of) then all bets are off. ;) :)
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2013, 09:37:50 PM »
When did Winnebago start charging the house battery from the alternator? My 80 Itasca did not, but it would charge from the BFA gen set.

I've never seen one that wasn't designed to charge boh chassis and house batteries from the alternator.  It only takes a simple isolator.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Charlie 5320

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2013, 09:42:52 PM »
OH, you're right Lou. I forgot about the switch on the dash, mom/both. I never used that feature.

One thing I've been thinking about. Is there any reason I can't use a 8ga wire and jump my isolator so I can keep the chassis battery up too?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 09:48:17 PM by 92GA »
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

kennyshark

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2013, 09:54:02 PM »
OK here is how my 1984 Shasta was/is wired, there was a "starting/chassis" battery, then a "coach" battery. there was a solenoid between the two batteries to isolate them from each other. when the ignition key was ON the batteries were connected by a solenoid and a #6 gauge wire, which would charge all batteries. But when the key is off then the starting battery is disconnected from the "coach" battery..

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2013, 09:55:28 PM »
OH, you're right Lou. I forgot about the switch on the dash, mom/both. I never used that feature.

One thing I've been thinking about. Is there any reason I can't use a 8ga wire and jump my isolator so I can keep the chassis battery up too?

It was my understanding that Damom uses the Intellitec Battery Control Center to accomplish just that.  Do you have battery disconnect switches by the entry door?  Maybe they didn't start using the BCC until later than '95.

There's nothing wrong with jumping the batteries together to keep them charged up.  Just remember that the jumper works both ways.  If some condition happens to run down the house batteries, the chassis battery goes with it.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Charlie 5320

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2013, 09:59:17 PM »
My disconnect is by the drivers seat. I have repaired both isolators and circuit breakers. I just want to connect the batteries when plugged in to shore power during winter storage.
2003 National Dolphin 5320
496  8.1  Workhorse

98 Damon Daybreak 3130
GM Vortech 454  4L80E
SOLD

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2013, 10:03:50 PM »
OK here is how my 1984 Shasta was/is wired, there was a "starting/chassis" battery, then a "coach" battery. there was a solenoid between the two batteries to isolate them from each other. when the ignition key was ON the batteries were connected by a solenoid and a #6 gauge wire, which would charge all batteries. But when the key is off then the starting battery is disconnected from the "coach" battery..

That's a very common implementation.  It was certainly a step up from the diode isolator and also made the aux/emergency start function easier to implement.

My earlier comment about your reply was only because the engine running aspect of charging had not previously been introduced into this discussion.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Just Lou

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2013, 10:05:51 PM »
My disconnect is by the drivers seat. I have repaired both isolators and circuit breakers. I just want to connect the batteries when plugged in to shore power during winter storage.

The jumper is certainly your cheapest option.  Others would suggest a trik-L-charge.
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

03 cobra sb

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Re: Class C coach battery and Generator
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2013, 10:31:56 AM »
That means that,

1. the battery is dead (which you state it isn't)
2. there is an open circuit on either the positive or negative side of the battery.
3. there is a blown fuse at the converter.

I would start by looking for a bad ground wire connection from the battery to the frame.
You might also put your voltmeter on the battery with everything off, then turn on some lights and check the voltage again. Just because a battery shows fully charged after charging doesn't mean that the battery is good. If the voltage drops more than a couple tenths of a volt when turning on the lights, the battery could be shot and not even be able to light a light bulb.

My Ground is connected to the chassis, it was a little loose, tightened it an all works good. I would guess my inline fuse is the breakers at the converter, didnt find any other in line fuse. I thank you guys that have been doing this for a long time. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated.
90 Itasca 27' Class 'C'
Two of us and 1 lazy Basset named 'Lady'
92 Ford Ranger 'Toad"
Colorado

 

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