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Author Topic: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED  (Read 12366 times)

fredethomas

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NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« on: April 05, 2005, 09:05:06 PM »
It was announced today [4/5] that all USA citizens will need passports to return to USA from Mexico, Canada and S. America.

What a mess.  Think of the thousands of North Americans [USA and Canada] that cross back and forth in places like Yuma and other Snowbird areas.  Then there are thoses that cross Canada to enter Alaska.

Glad I did not vote for him.
FRED E. THOMAS

Tom

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2005, 09:19:28 PM »
Glad I did not vote for him.

You didn't vote for El President Fox? Shame on you.
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Ned

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2005, 09:20:16 PM »
That isn't to take effect until 2008.  The article is available at http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/05/passports050405.html, a Canadian news outlet.

Lots of time to get a passport.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Ron

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2005, 10:28:29 PM »
Citizens and legal visiters only will require passports but the illegals will not.  just don't seem right to me.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Terry A. Brewer

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005, 02:32:35 PM »
Fred

>>It was announced today [4/5] that all USA citizens will need passports to return to USA from Mexico, Canada and S. America.<<

it's about time.<G>

How's your Minute Man duty coming along in Sierra Vista?


Terry
At Yuma, AZ

blueblood

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005, 03:05:42 PM »
It was announced today [4/5] that all USA citizens will need passports to return to USA from Mexico, Canada and S. America.

What a mess.  Think of the thousands of North Americans [USA and Canada] that cross back and forth in places like Yuma and other Snowbird areas.  Then there are thoses that cross Canada to enter Alaska.

Glad I did not vote for him.


It's a minor problem like getting a drivers license. Many folks have them anyway since they travel elsewhere and need them. I don't think it makes any difference who is President this is going to be derigour for all kinds of things. I just moved back to SC for 4th time in 35 years. This time I had to provide proof of residency, proof of identity and proof of citizenship to get my drivers license. These were introduced in wake of 911 with a minimal number of acceptable forms of proof.  I had trouble supplying two of them. Proof of residency because as a renter I had no home closing statement to show. They would take a utility bill but I hadn't yet had one since I just moved in and in addition both my wife and I had to appear on the bill and we had not set up any accounts with both (never have) not knowing this was going to be a problem. They would accept a bank statement and luckily I had changed the address on line and the bank statement timing was that week so I had it and both our names were on it.  Proof of citizenship required social secuity card but my 60 year old card was not acceptable since they ruled it was the stub from the card not the card per se. This form of card had never been challanged by any one including federal government for high level security clearances ,etc. They did take my passport as an alternative. I am reappying for a SSA new card this week since I think as I said one had better be prepared across the board for this type of increased scrutiny whether we like it or not and I am taking proactive steps to clean up our records. For example, my birth certificate does not say Jr while my SSA card does. They challanged me on this discrepancy as well. I have to work this out somehow with SSA because I'm sure the State of Ohio isn't going to be willing to change my BC 70+ years later (although I may have to pursue that alternative). The problem is compounded by the fact I was told to drop the Jr when my dad died but due to his being published in technical journals it was decide that it couldn't be done for legal reasons related to publishing rights. It never mattered to now and I was very happy remaining Jr.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 03:07:18 PM by blueblood »
Leo

Ron

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 03:51:35 PM »
The biggest problem I have with this is with all these thing being put in place in interest of security thay are doing nothing about the real security threat.  The southern boarder and all the illegal crossing that go on there every day.  If a terrorest wanted in all they would have to do is come across with a group of Mexicans say near Douglas sign up for welfare and they would have full access to the country with more rights then our citizens.    In interest of security they need to stop the illegal crossings on the Southern boarder even if it means getting rough. Just my opinion.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2005, 06:41:37 AM »
I've got to agree, Ron. A long as the southern border leaks like sieve, all these other actions are a joke.
Gary
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blueblood

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2005, 07:59:42 AM »
I've got to agree, Ron. A long as the southern border leaks like sieve, all these other actions are a joke.

I agree also. It's a tough issue because of both internal and geo politics. The internal politics was neatly played out last night on the Bill O'Reilly show. I don't normally watch this show but I was channel surfing as I installed a new TV and saw Bill arguing with his guest Juan Williams the liberal columnist. Bill was taking the hard right position that like the Chinese have done in very effectively sealing off the border with N Korea, we should do the same. Juan was mocking Bill for wanting to be like the Chinese and then threw in that one can't stop the human desire to come to a country like the US, so if we seal the borders then they'll come by air or boat. He didn't say it but his conclusion  was clearly "so let's do nothing". and that's where we find ourselves. If Bush takes the hard right position he'll be critised by liberals, the media, the Mexican legal and illegals in this country, the UN Human Rights Commission and foreign governments, etc. He apparently doesn't have the will to do it so we're left with doing nothing much. 

We can't even deport over 700,000 Mexican illegals who have been convicted in this country of a crime. The advocacy groups raise one roadblock after another in our liberal courts and win.   
Leo

Jim Johnson

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2005, 08:17:16 AM »
I've got to agree, Ron. A long as the southern border leaks like sieve, all these other actions are a joke.

 on the Bill O'Reilly show. 
   

Well, it has taken some time, but you have finally gone to the right source for your news.  (G) I can hardly wait to get to Moab to be able to talk to you about your new-found insight.  Welcome aboard!!!
Jim

Jim & Tarry Johnson

blueblood

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2005, 08:52:06 AM »
I've got to agree, Ron. A long as the southern border leaks like sieve, all these other actions are a joke.

 on the Bill O'Reilly show. 
   

Well, it has taken some time, but you have finally gone to the right source for your news.  (G) I can hardly wait to get to Moab to be able to talk to you about your new-found insight.  Welcome aboard!!!

Two errors there. A) I'm not coming to Moab - just left UT to move to SC and not going to retrace my steps. Had enough driving for a few days.  ;D B) Not a new insight or information. My son managed a border post in TX for awhile and presently is in Homeland Security and we talk extensively on the issues and complexities toward any solution/s quite regularly. 
Leo

BernieD

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 08:59:20 AM »
That isn't to take effect until 2008.  The article is available at http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/05/passports050405.html, a Canadian news outlet.

Lots of time to get a passport.

True, but if you fly or sail it is sooner. Also, $97 each for the passports.
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

BernieD

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2005, 09:00:43 AM »
Citizens and legal visiters only will require passports but the illegals will not.  just don't seem right to me.


OK, let's pass a law to make illegals carry passports ;D ;D ;D
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

BernieD

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2005, 09:11:07 AM »
The biggest problem I have with this is with all these thing being put in place in interest of security thay are doing nothing about the real security threat.  The southern boarder and all the illegal crossing that go on there every day.  If a terrorest wanted in all they would have to do is come across with a group of Mexicans say near Douglas sign up for welfare and they would have full access to the country with more rights then our citizens.    In interest of security they need to stop the illegal crossings on the Southern boarder even if it means getting rough. Just my opinion.


Ron

Need to clarify a few points. First, the miltary has been working on detection systems that can monitor wide areas. They are being tested in the area around Douglas, AZ.

Next, in the last election a referendum was passed requiring adequate proof of citizenship before receiving public benefits in AZ. Public employees can be fined for failure to follow the law.

I don't understand how illegals have more rights than citizens ??? ???
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

Ron

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2005, 10:02:40 AM »
Bernie,

In the first place the Southern boarder should have been made secure 40 years ago.  Second that is hogwash about testing detection systems since they already have them anlong areas of Canadian Boarder. 

The last law may have changed things in Az but not in all States. If they can't get something here they just to where they can.

We citizens that Mexican, Canadian, or ourselves that have not crossed the boarders illegally will be required to carry passports to cross now but those crossing over illegally will continue as they have in the past.

I have nothing aganst the Mexican people that are hear legally but I am against letting anybody that enters our country illegally remain here.



Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

blueblood

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2005, 10:22:16 AM »
Fred

>>It was announced today [4/5] that all USA citizens will need passports to return to USA from Mexico, Canada and S. America.<<



Terry
At Yuma, AZ



Some added information


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050407/PASS07/TPNational/Canada
Leo

Phil

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2005, 03:21:56 PM »
It was announced today [4/5] that all USA citizens will need passports to return to USA from Mexico, Canada and S. America.

Fred,

Passport or other aceptable id.  Some states are so lax with drivers license requirements that it's easy for an undocumented person to get a DL.  The states were given a time frame to fix the drivers license problem OR ELSE residents of those states would not be able to use the DL as valid id to enter this country.

Utah was one of the bad states.  The 2005 legislature FIXED the problem with a change to the drivers license requirements.

Now, undocumented persons living in Utah can get a driving privilge card but will not be able to get a "real" drivers license.  The "real" Utah drivers license will get you back into the USA when the new requirement takes effect.

No passport required with a "real" drivers license.

Phil

quasi

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2005, 03:54:27 PM »
A crackdown on illegal entry from Mexico recently produced some interesting results. The INS was attacked and eventually was forced to ease up on enforcement, allowing aliens to cross over. The primary motivating participant in this affair was the agricultural lobby. There weren't enough Mexicans to harvest the lettuce crop and the US agribusiness interests went ballistic.

I agree that there should be better border control, but sealing the border doesn't work. Allowing lawful entry for employment with the appropriate documentation seems smarter to me. After all, the person who is going to commit a felony won't be deterred because there's a city ordinance. The laws we have now and the enforcement strategies don't seem to fit the times we live in.

Jim
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Ron

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2005, 05:50:27 PM »
I have no problem with folks coming in to work if they have entered leagaly.  However, anybody sneaking across the boarder is a lawbreaker and should not be allowd to work or stay in this country.  Furthermore  anybody found hireing iileagals should be fined heavely in addition to paying any costs incurred by the illeagal and cost to return them back accross the boarder.

Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Jeff

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 06:05:04 PM »
Quote
I agree that there should be better border control, but sealing the border doesn't work. Allowing lawful entry for employment with the appropriate documentation seems smarter to me. After all, the person who is going to commit a felony won't be deterred because there's a city ordinance. The laws we have now and the enforcement strategies don't seem to fit the times we live in.

I have maintained for years that the illegals keep coming because of the jobs. They would not move here to starve.

If we really want this to stop put every US employer, owner, manager, farmer, and housewife in jail for 1 year who hires an illegal alien. Require them to register their employees who are not US citizens with INS instead of simply requiring employees to fill out a Form 9 with fake ID and put it in a filing cabinet.

We lived in Illinois for 35 years and every time they did a roundup it was employers like Green Giant who lost their cheap labor. If any fine was levied it still made monetary sense to hire illegal aliens at low wages.


Ron

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2005, 06:47:45 PM »
I see we agree on punishing the employers that break the law by hireing illegals.  I'm in full agreement and have no problem with jail time for those hireing illegals.  Fact is I think the CEO of those companies should also serve the time.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Alaskansnowbirds

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2005, 11:43:55 PM »
The primary motivating participant in this affair was the agricultural lobby. There weren't enough Mexicans to harvest the lettuce crop and the US agribusiness interests went ballistic.

Jim
(putting away soapbox)

And in the areas where they "have to have the illigal labor" how many people are on the unemployment rolls? I think to draw unemployment you have to accept any job available. If the job doesn't pay as much as unemployment then the state makes up the differance.

Don & Peg
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Weather at Camp Verde, AZ.

DonJordan

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2005, 10:28:03 AM »
The primary motivating participant in this affair was the agricultural lobby. There weren't enough Mexicans to harvest the lettuce crop and the US agribusiness interests went ballistic.

Jim
(putting away soapbox)

And in the areas where they "have to have the illigal labor" how many people are on the unemployment rolls? I think to draw unemployment you have to accept any job available. If the job doesn't pay as much as unemployment then the state makes up the differance.

And how many caucasians or blacks do you know who would be either willing or able to do the back-breaking labor of lettuce harvesting, cultivating strawberries, and other stoop labor, etc.?  Without the illegals the ag business would grind to a quick halt.  IMHO the "illegals" should be given green cards and picked up at the border crossings each morning, taken to the fields to work, and then returned to the border each afternoon/evening.
Don Jordan.

Ron

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2005, 10:50:28 AM »
I the labors are given green cards then they would not be illegals.  I have no problem with the ones that come across the boarder legally to work and there are provisions just for that.  But lawbreakers that includes those crossing the boarder illegally should not be allowed to stay or work even 1 hour unless it is in a prison while they are being processed to be returned across the boarder.  This country has been under invasion by illegal border crossings for years and our government has been flat on their backside for allowing it to happen.  The bottom line is it has cost the american tax payer millions and now it is our biggest secuity threat even though Washington won't admit it.  Sorry Don I just can't agree on letting anybody cross our borders illegally and be rewarded with gainful employment.  I also believe anybody employing illegals should be punished including heavy fines and prison time.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

fredethomas

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2005, 06:32:46 PM »
We move one way and Europe moves another.  True effective border security can never happen.  We should have open borders and spend all the resources we waste in the current efforts in making more efficent - the background check system and improving relations with all nations and religions so the terrorists have no reason to invade us.  As I said - there never, never will be any way to seal the borders.  Even with the Minuteman maning the border at one quarter mile intervals along 20 miles of the AZ border - they are still coming through.  Daisy and I saw about 20 on Thursday that were being head under a bridge on Interstate 19, north of Nogalas.  They must have come across in a van on I-19 at a border crossing.   Yuma is having problems at the Marine Base and has had to stop training excercises some 500 times this year so far because of people on the ranges.   I know the Border Patrol is not working to max as there were 37 border patrol vehicles parked at the station in Sonita on RT 82 on Thursday.  This is many miles north of the border crossing.  At the check station on AZ 90, north of  Sierra Vista and about 45 miles north of the border some 15 or 20 agents were standing around chatting. 

It has been reported that few if any border patrol vehicles have GPS.  Storys are appearing that when citizens report in sightings and give coordinates - the border patrol wanders around the desert like being lost. 

PS Where is the spell check?

Open borders - equal living standards - factories on both sides of the borders [Canada/USA/Mexico] working together and keep China from taking over everything.  China is our economic enemy - not Mexico, not Canada, not South America.
FRED E. THOMAS

Tom

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2005, 08:28:47 PM »
Quote
Where is the spell check?
Fred, spell check is turned on here, but it requires that the host install a particular item of software. Our host won't install it because it can cause their servers to crash. www.amazon.com sells dictionaries at a good price  :)

Spell checking is now active.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2005, 04:07:13 PM by Tom »
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fredethomas

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2005, 07:34:26 PM »
Big article in the Sunday Sierra Vista Hearld that says again - all persons entering the United States will have a passport or Visa.  It talks of numbers of new clerks to handle requests, personal to conduct background checks, persons at the border to check the passport and of the million who cross the borders daily.


Going to be a fight about this one.
FRED E. THOMAS

BernieD

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2005, 10:46:58 AM »
There was an interesting article in yesterday's Phoenix Republic reprinted from the NY Times. It seems the contribution of the "illegals" to the so-called Social Security crisis is over $7 billion a year. There has been enough enforcement of documentation of new hires so that most working "illegals" today show Social Security numbers and other paperwork in order to be hired (the employers are not expected to be expert forgery detectors and only need to see documentation). Documentation packages can be bought on the street for about $150. The "illegal" then goes to work in for a legitimate employer in a legitimate job.

Of course payroll taxes, Social Security taxes and Medicare are deducted from the paycheck. However, since the "illegal" doesn't have a real Social Security number and doesn't anticipate being in the States when it is time to retire, all those taxes just flow into the government coffers without having to be paid back.  $7 BILLION a year for Social Security alone, about $1.5 billion for Medicare and who knows how much for withheld taxes. The "illegals" just consider the withholdings as a cost of doing business.

Maybe we should let more "illegals" in and solve our fiscal deficits :D :D


Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

blueblood

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2005, 04:14:46 PM »
Big article in the Sunday Sierra Vista Hearld that says again - all persons entering the United States will have a passport or Visa.  It talks of numbers of new clerks to handle requests, personal to conduct background checks, persons at the border to check the passport and of the million who cross the borders daily.


Going to be a fight about this one.

There are two passport issues - the one that started this thread i.e. crossing US border from CA/MX and what this article probably refers to.  The fact that all new passports issued by foreign governments must contain applicants biometric data or the person wishing to enter must have a visa. Valid passports issued before the cutoff date remain usable. The US has extended the time for foreign governments to issue these passorts but the extension is not going to be met by a number of couniires including the UK which is one of the heaviest travelers to US. The reason for the delay is that the EU decided to use a very advanced technology (in terms of reliablility) that is able to read the passport while someone is simply walking by - the same technology places like Wal-Mart are using for inventory - often refrred to as RIFD (Radio Frequency Identifcation)  The EU is asking for another extension to avoid the millions who met be caught up in this but the US is balking. Saying the EU shouldn't have tried to meet the biometric requirement while at same time trying to introducing  the needless complexity of RFID when it isn't yet a fully debugged technology. The political situation is that this requirement is a law passed in wake of 911 Commission and Senate is balking at changing. 
Leo

Karl

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2005, 06:29:28 PM »
Unworkeable, unenforceable, and uneconomical. That's what this whole passport thing is. Passports are like locks - they keep honest people honest. A crook will possess the lock pick, and an illegal will gain entry with or without a passport. Any security technology that the EU comes up with can be broken. That was proven time and time again with the encryption schemas that Hollywood tried to eliminate DVD copying. Besides, the greatest danger to our country isn't going to be flying in first-class with hundreds of pounds of explosives or bioagents; he'll be sneaking in over the thousands of miles of unprotected border between Mexico/Canada and the United States, or sailing in thru many more thousands of miles of unprotected shoreline. And folks, let's get our priorities in line. Yes, 7 billion is a lot of money, but farm labor is not a threat to national security and 9/11 could happen again, maybe even tomorrow. Simply adding more machines and agents will not solve the problem. It will be necessary for all citizens to take a proactive role. I'm not advocating vigilante groups or spying on your neighbors, but simply being aware of your surroundings and the people in it will do a world of good. No longer can we have this "I don't want to get involved" attitude; we are involved, like it or not. Report suspicious activities and other things that just don't seem right, then let the authorities do their jobs. And don't become irriitated when a clerk, security guard or law enforcement officer asks you to show identification or inspect your bags. It's not a lessening of your personal freedoms; it's a way to help protect them!     
Karl (Cheesehead) Kolbus   Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy cow ...what a ride!"

fredethomas

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2005, 10:55:08 AM »
There appears to be a news blackout on the Minuteman project.  Nothing on the Tucson TV channels the last few days.  We don't get a weekly paper - so not sure of anything in it or not. 

Saw that 42 illegals were found in a semi at a truck stop in New Mexico.  Wonder how they got through the border check station??

FRED E. THOMAS

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Re: NEW N. AMERICA PASSPORTS REQUIRED
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2005, 06:09:41 PM »
Quote
It's a minor problem like getting a drivers license.

A minor problem.  Well, for perhaps 99% of the people yes,

But with the application they wish a certified copy of your birth certificate,  Some folks do not have one, Thousands of birth certificates have been destroyed n fires in various city record offices over the last 100 years

Some folks are from other countries

Some folks were adopted (thankfully  do know where I was born and who my father was, Mom, is my Mother, I also know which court ruled on the adoption, so I can get the needed documents, but it's not all that simple since I'm in Detroit and the records are not)

Yes, a minor problem.. For most folks  Still a PITA (pain in the anatomy) more so for a few (relatively speaking)

I too am glad I voted, but not for Bush, NEVER for Bush
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