My gut is trying to be heard...

Hey, ME again
I posted a short while ago, asking about the Keystone Mountaineer TT. I've been browsing online, still looking at other trailers, even though I was all set to buy this one. My gut has been poking me, trying to get my attention, ever since I looked at that trailer. The woman selling it (NOT the owner, but a used car dealer) told me some things that didn't ring true, and without saying it, I knew she wasn't being honest.

THAT bothered me. Also, a couple of things she did while I was looking over the trailer, really bothered me. First off, she wouldn't give me a second alone, she was watching my every move, I have nothing to hide, but, it was disturbing in a weird way. When I opened the long storage drawer, underneath the dinnet booth seat, there was a couple items inside, some kind of old electric juicer, a cheapo, a cheap toaster & old electric skillet. She about knocked me over, trying to get at it, while saying "WHATS THAT...I DIDN'T SEEE THAT!" Then began going on about how she "DON'T EVEN HAVE ONE OF THOSE"!

This is the same lady who, when I asked where the t.v & entertainment system was (It was removed, speaker wires cut) told me "Nobody leaves that stuff in these, if they do their STUPID"! She made the same comment when I asked about the anti-sway bar & weight dist. hitch. Yet, EVERYTHING else WAS left, including dishes, towels, sewer hookups, and so on. The elderly lady who owned it was getting rid of it because her husband had died...or so I was told. Something about all the answers seemed untrue, just my "gut" telling me.

HERE is what is really, REALLY starting to bother me, though; The exterior is in beautiful condition, superb. I asked her if they waxed/cleaned it when they took it in. She told me, no, it's EXACTLY the way it was when it rolled in. BUT, but, but; The UNDERCARRIAGE has a god amount of rust, albeit, surface rust, it is enough that it's caused the paint to bubble up all along the steel frame. The springs on the slide (underneath) have HEAVY rust on them. The propane tank cover is faded badly. There is a large slit in the one-piece polypropylene (I think that's what that's called) material that seals the underbelly, which was created to perform a repair of some sort.

The ROOF, the roof; ALL the caulk/seals are EXTREMELY dried out, about as bad as it can get & NOT be leaking. It's been layered & gooped over several times, it looks like. NOT what I would consider a neat and/or professional job, not by any means. The rubber roof material is quite chalky, which I know is normal, but, here's the thing. I was under the impression the unit had little use, and was probably garage kept (Or at least covered) when not being used. HOWEVER, the condition of the sealant on top, the roof, the undercarriage, and propane tank covers lead me to think that the exterior was also in rough condition & was "restored" to sell...OH, oh, and the AWNING, it's got rotted edges with some small tears & holes, from UV damage.

My problem is, NOT that it may have been restored, cosmetically, but, the fact that I was most likely lied to about it. I KNOW she lied about some things for 100% sure (The t.v was in the photos she took, she should have either left it, like everyone else does, since it's factory,or just come right out & said "NOT INCLUDED". Same for the exterior, it doesn't match the condition of everything else. They even went so far as to apply SUPER thick coatings of TIRE WET, or similar, more to try & hide all the dry rot & cracks, I've NEVER seen anyone apply that stuff so thick & heavy, not ever! I used to have a detailing business, boats. I was really good at it, too.  So, I KNOW exactly what goes into restoring gel-coat/fiberglass, etc. I also know, depending how bad it was, will dictate how long the restoration will hold up (factoring in quality of materials used, method/technique to bring back the gloss, etc., exposure to sun/UV, rain, pollution, rod grime, and so on) I just expect honesty, because that's how I am.

To continue, taking it to the interior (There will be a quiz at the end of this post, NOT open book, either ;D) While the interior IS very, very clean, there are a few areas that don't sit quite right with me. Starting with the bathroom sink. The faucets were NOT in nice cosmetic condition. They appeared I know how I am. I'm VERY particular about the fixtures in my house. I wipe any water drops, soap, etc., off each time I finish using them (Or, whenever someone else uses & doesn't clean) It's how they stay new looking. The faucets in this bathroom are pretty rough. There is a hand-written note, taped to the inside of the mirror/door of the medicine cabinet. I only glanced at it. It informs the reader that the sink is made of plastic, that's about all I read. I assume it lists things NOT to use that may harm the surface of the sink.

That's all well & good, but, WHY, if it was just an elderly couple? Maybe they had visitors/kids along, grand kids? MAYBE it was a rental unit! My point, I get the feeling the camper has seen a LOT more use than the saleswoman is trying to convince me of?? If so, being a 2006 model, things could be at the soon-to-break point. Just saying.

HERE is something that is starting to concern me, where, at first it seemed like nothing, I am starting to have second thoughts; That corner cabinet against the outside wall of the slide-out...it had a faint odor of mildew, and the air inside that cabinet was definitely more heavy with humidity than all the other cabinets & the trailer itself. Probably nothing...BUT, but; About a month or so ago, I began to see these advertisements. The advertisement (online)  were for a process for travel trailers/5th wheels & motor homes. It was GUARANTEED to REMOVE ALL ODORS. Then they went down the list, MILDEW & MOLD, smoke, pets, cooking/food, and so on. The ad said you could add hundreds of dollars or more to your trailer in value if you were selling it...SUPPOSE, that this process has been performed on THIS trailer, and that slight mildew odor in the cabinet, is actually how the WHOLE trailer smelled BEFORE the process?

Am I being irrational? If the lady hadn't lied to me, I probably wouldn't even be thinking this way, but she did & I am. I mean, even with the t.v's & entertainment systems gone & needing tires & re-sealing on the roof,  I have to wonder WHY are they selling a trailer for nearly $4,000 to $5,000 LESS than the average retail price for a clean, used unit? What am I not seeing here? Now I'm really torn about this. Can I run the serial # for an online report, kind of like carfax? If she would even allow me to have the #'s, IDK. Wow.  :-\

I can't speak for your gut. I say to follow it.

However, I can speak for one of your concerns. The sealer build up is quite normal on RV's in general. During you maint. you apply more sealer over any that looks suspect. every few years one may remove the sealer and start fresh, but I tink few ever do.

She does sound shady and might be a bit off balance...

captsteve said:

I can't speak for your gut. I say to follow it.

However, I can speak for one of your concerns. The sealer build up is quite normal on RV's in general. During you maint. you apply more sealer over any that looks suspect. every few years one may remove the sealer and start fresh, but I tink few ever do.

She does sound shady and might be a bit off balance...

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Okay, that at least explains THAT...which also, to me, indicates the unit was used more than it APPEARS, because if it wasn't used much, and garage kept, the need wouldn't be there to re-do the seals/caulk as much as this one has been, IMO. It doesn't match the rest of the unit/story, etc.

Redoing the caulking should be done at least annually. It is a sign that someone cared enough to do it.

IMHO don't walk away, RUN!!! Far, far away.

There are too many campers for sale out there.  Pages and pages and pages of them.  If you don't feel good about it (for any reason) walk away.  There are many other fish in the sea.

If you are feeling a little uneasy about the deal now I wouldn't expect things to get better after the deal is all done with. 

Your post seems to have identified WAY more red flags than green ones.  I'd say MOVE ON.  It's an emotional move and you've become attached to the idea owning this rig, I know.  We understand.  But this seems like a unit (and a dealership) that you should avoid at all costs.

For the way you describe the unit, I would forget this one and find a newer one. You will have fewer sleepless nights over your decision.

You say your gut wishes to be heard.. I assume it's saying "Keep shopping, don't stop here" or perhaps it is saying "Shop elsewhere"

In either case... Good advice and I echo it.  The mildew and high humidity in the cabinet strongly suggest a roof leak, as does the condition you cited on the roof.

And many folks DO leave the electronics inside, and the ones who take it out do not normally cut wires.  But disconnect properly.

AGENT86 said:

...
This is the same lady who, when I asked where the t.v & entertainment system was (It was removed, speaker wires cut) told me "Nobody leaves that stuff in these, if they do their STUPID"!
...
... I KNOW she lied about some things for 100% sure (The t.v was in the photos she took, she should have either left it, like everyone else does, since it's factory,or just come right out & said "NOT INCLUDED".

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Like others have recommended, walk away if you haven't already.

Regarding the electronics, the dealer was likely a theft victim.  This has become a common problem on RV dealer lots.  No reason she shouldn't have been honest about it.  Just another reason to move on.

The way she greedily rushed for used inexpensive appliances tells me they are the ones "removing" stuff. Dishonest is dishonest, move along, nothing worth buying on that lot. Who knows what other bits have been scavenged by them, 'til you, the novice, discover such and such doesn't work because a crucial bit has "walked off".

Bill

Hey everybody! Thanks for all the excellent replies! I just wanted to update the thread...BE FOREWARNED! THIS IS A PRETTY LONG READ!!

I didn't purchase that unit, but, the very next day, while shopping for a used tt on Craigs List, I found one that SOUNDED like it was what I was looking for, but there wasn't any photos. Normally, no photo-move along, for me, at least. However,  my gut told me to call about the unit.

I did. The trailer was being sold by the original owners, a husband & wife.  I first spoke with the wife. A lovely lady, who answered EVERY question I asked with full disclosure & total honesty, it was a pleasure to speak with her. The reason there was no photos, was because her friend had posted the ad for them, tried to upload several photos but the upload failed.

After speaking with her for about twenty to thirty minutes, I scheduled an appointment for later that evening. It was about an hour and a half drive, but I just had a good feeling about it. BTW, it's a 2006 ROCKWOOD by Forest River. The MODEL is RLT 8314SS A year OLDER than the Keystone, but, if it had been well cared for, that wouldn't matter.  When I pulled up that evening, I immediately liked the trailer from the exterior. I could tell they had taken very good care of it. She had told me, over the phone, some areas needed a "little spot of paint", a little TLC...THAT worried me, but, still, I followed my gut. Turns out, she was talking about the metal entry steps. They has some small areas of surface rust here & there, nothing a wire brush, Ospho & gloss black spray paint wouldn't rectify in a jiff 8)

While speaking with them, I also discovered, that, most of their trips were close to home, usually a long weekend. Then, a couple times a year, they would make a longer trip, but, never more than 200 or 300 miles from home. Basically, the trailer spent more time sitting idle, than being used.  The last year or so, it's only been used once, and not at all since last December.

Underneath was in great condition, as well (Enclosed/heated underbelly) The ROOF; It was in amazing condition! When I walked on it, (I wasn't going to, but the woman's husband INSISTED I go on up & check it out!) it didn't flex, or move at all! The rubber material (and I need to find out EXACTLY what this stuff is, so I buy the proper sealant) was solid, not a bubble, wrinkle, nada...the caulk was in good shape, but, IMO, will need to be gone over soon. They paid to have rain vents installed over the three ceiling vents. This way, the vents can stay open 24/7 and no rain can enter.

Inside, it was perfect! No odors, no stains, nothing to indicate it had ever leaked. The walls were all tight & solid (I believe the walls are vacuum bonded, because some tt's had very "loose" feeling inner walls, as opposed to the vacuum bonded units, where the walls feel solid with zero flex/movement) They had done 99% of their cooking on the removable outdoor grill. It attaches to the side, between the two entry doors, has a dedicated propane hook-up on the trailer, as well)  Everything functioned properly, water, stove, toilet, A/C, heat, refrig, slide-out, etc. I checked over the trailer for close to two hours. The whole time, they were very helpful, answered all my questions with pleasure, just really nice people.

They included a lot of extra stuff, that they wouldn't need anymore. BTW, this was their second tt, and when they purchased this one, they were better able to buy a tt with certain options that they didn't get with the first one, such as the outdoor grill. They also included the anti-sway bars & weight distribution hitch, which saved me a good penny right there! I bought an electric brake controller & hooked it up the night before I went back to finalize the deal, by having the title notarized at the sign-over.

I pulled it back to Myrtle Beach, and for the next couple weeks, until I finish moving/selling/tossing everything I have it stored in an awesome RV & boat storage facility for $25.00 per month. I have to tell you, though, now that I have the tt I can't WAIT to get moved into it & start full timing! So, that's the story, and, soon, I'll be popping in & out of these forums like popcorn in a microwave bag!

Sounds like you found a winner!  Congratulations and happy camping!!!

AGENT86 said:

soon, I'll be popping in & out of these forums like popcorn in a microwave bag!

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That's why we are here!  ;D  Great find and, of course, we want PICTURES as soon as possible!  You can start a new thread with those if you'd like, since this "buyer beware" conversation is now ancient history. 

Congrats on the shiny new cream puff!!! Enjoy it!