Why so many V10s instead of the 6.7 diesel?

I've been to a number of RV shows in the past 15 months or so and have looked at doezens of web sites.  Many class A and class C will have a V-10 (or smaller gas engine in some of the Class C that's on a E-450 chassis).  I'm curious why they wouldn't just put the 6.7L diesel in them?

They'd have more towability and be able to get up and over the mountains without having a string of cars strung out a mile behind.  Is it just a cost saving factor?  I don't think I've ever saw any of the smaller class A or any of the class C with a diesel option.

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When I am driving I usually notice all the RVs I pass. It seems to me that most of the class As are towing something but it is very rare that I see a C towing something.

Now after working nearly 10 years with the local fire dept and driving everything from Big Block Chevy V8's and diesels I would highly suggest to any RV owner to highly suggest to get a diesel power plant instead of gasoline. Like I just finished up on the Rough Creek Fire here in Idaho and drove a big block Chevy water tender for 4 days and its the slows dang thing. I was wishing I had the 4,000 gallon tender instead with a Cummins 400. Much nice rig. But the point is diesel power plant are design for heavy loads where gasoline engines are not really.

I can think of two reasons.. Cost and experience

I, for example, have no experience with Diesels. I'm thus more comfortable with a gas engine.

Gas engines are lower in initial cost... And it does not look like I'll ever scrape up the funds for a big D. (And I'm not sure I want to)

Today the Ford V-10 is about the only RV size gasser sold.

diesel power plant are design for heavy loads but in fixing/parts cost  is to high over any gas  where gasoline engines like a good used engine for my 8.1l GM  would cost 800 to 1200$ on ebay  and just like to have some thing i know i can work on 

and any place that see you coming in a rv you get times 3 on the price


i wish is was not that way really 

Front engine diesels have been offered for Class A's and not at all successful with the buying public. We can conjecture about the reasons, but higher cost and "fear of diesel" has to be high on the list. Workhorse Chassis went out of business when they no longer had the 8.1L GM engine to offer - they simply couldn't sell enough of their excellent RV chassis with only a MaxxForce diesel available to power it.

There were several manufacturers of Class C diesels as well. Bigfoot was one - they went out of business 3-4 years ago. Gulfstream offered their popular B Touring Cruiser on a Ford diesel chassis for awhile, but dropped it due to lagging sales.

Currently there are a few C diesels.  Four Winds has a "Super C" diesel model based on the Ford F550 chassis. Jayco makes Super C's on a Freightliner M2 chassis, but that's a much larger motorhome.

Plus there are several models using the Mercedes Sprinter diesel chassis. These are mostly Class B+ or relatively small A types..

I think the newer V10 engines are probley adequate for the applications they are being used in. I do think cost is one of the big reasons they are not offered in the smaller units. Just look at the truck market you can drop an extra $10,000 or more to upgrade to diesel. Like others have said it has been tried and failed because they weren?t selling.
Just by a class A diesel and be done with it.
Bill

Here in Australia a Petrol(gas) Motorhome is a contradiction in terms. I can see the cheapness argument in the US, but diesel has taken over Motorhomes and tow vehicles(SUV's, Pickups and some heavier trucks). Of the Pickups that are avaiable the Petrol options are being phased out. Yes contrary to what you would think, diesel is more expensive in Australia as well.

I would have thought that the plug blow out problem that the Ford v-10 had a while back would have scared the beejesus out of people.  I know it did for me.  Granted the problem seems to have been fixed but for me the thought would always be with me.  The other factor with me anyway was you don't seem to get a higher towing capacity with a v-10, still 5K lbs.  I went with diesel 2 years ago and have never looked back and never regretted it.
The price factor I feel is relative.  Sure diesel is more expensive but you go further on a tank with the increased gas mileage.  I can go safely 700 miles on my DP before I start looking for a station to fill up.  MY old 29ft class c 460, I could only go 375 miles bore having stop for gas.  I for one will pay the price.

In my mind the gas/diesel isn't an argument over which one you like the best. It is a choice of the right tool for the right job.

If you are driving in the mountains out west and if you are towing then a diesel is the right tool for you.

If not then a gasser is the right tool.

I drove a gasser for 9 years and a diesel for one year during my 10 years full timing. Every gasser was perfect for the job since I wasn't towing. The diesel was a waste of money since we weren't towing anything. If you are not towing in mountains there just simply isn't any real reason to get a diesel. You might want one since they might be more macho or sexy but they wouldn't be necessary.

Is a cutoff van chassis even available from Ford or Chevy with a diesel? The Ford website does not currently show one available in the E-450 cutaway chassis specifications. In 2004 when we were looking for our Class C, I could not find them listed on the Ford or Chevy website. For a while, a few manufactures made Class Cs on a cutoff pickup chassis and you could get one with a diesel or gas engine. Until the advent of the SuperC, pickup chassis lost favor due to the increase total length for a given useable living space.

I don't think that the Ford diesel is currently available in any E (van) chassis. Again, they were not good sellers, even though they are often ideal for the application.

There are several reasons generally given in the auto industry for the lack of success with diesels in the USA:
1. Americans got a bad taste in their mouth on diesel engines in the 70's, when an ill-conceived attempt was made to convert a GM 350 gas engine to diesel. Reliability was abysmal.  Much as today's senior buying public either experienced that or read the horror stories in the media, so they are very skeptical about diesels
2. Until several years ago, diesel fuel was not widely available at the corner gas station. That has changed substantially, but the perception remains. And it's still one pump vs several, making fueling less convenient.
3. The perception that diesels have poor acceleration (a leftover from pre-turbo days)
4. The perception that diesel fuel is smelly (a "stinkpot"), and dirty (sooty). This is also a leftover from pre-turbo days.
5. Unleaded gas in the USA is kept well below world market prices, making it a bargain compared to diesel.

Younger generations have grown up with excellent diesels in pick-up trucks and readily available diesel fuel, so the US auto industry is dabbling in diesels again. The industry wants them badly, since it gives them a major step forward in meeting the upcoming 54.5 mpg CAFE requirements.

Thanks a bunch for enlightening me Gary....you're a wealth of knowledge in this, new to me, RV world.  Of course there are others here that are to.  Just saying I think you answered my question to where a newbie (me) could understand it and I thank you for that.

I can tell you that I've been driving diesel trucks for a few years (an 04 F-350 Lariet, FX-4 and now a 12 F-250 Lariet FX-4) and I've never had a problem finding fuel and as far as acceleration goes.....the new 6.7L that Ford has out now is just incredable!  It doesn't have any problem accelerating, even with my 5th wheel on the back, agressively.  Unlike the diesels of old, with the twin turbos, the power is there as soon as you press on the accelerator without the lag of the old days.  I just don't think there's a stock gas engine that's going to accelerate faster, pulling the same load.

I might also add....I get many comments about how quiet this diesel is and they burn clean now.  Just a different motor from the diesels of days gone by.

Thanks, JCZ. I guess I just enjoy doing research and then pontificating or lecturing abut what I have learned.  8)

Gary RV Roamer said:

Thanks, JCZ. I guess I just enjoy doing research and then pontificating or lecturing abut what I have learned.  8)

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---Thumbs Up---

George

Gary:
Just a point of reference about the Olds diesel engine. I worked for Olds during the diesel years(1978-1982). If you will remember we were in the midst of a fuel crisis, all of the manufactures were looking for anything that could increase fuel mileage. There was no reliable fuel injection and, cars were riddled with unreliable small computer systems attached to carburetors, to control emissions. The engine was never designed or advertised as an engine for pulling. Its claim to fame was mileage (35 mpg). That was huge in 1978. The engine was designed to fit in a specific hole. The engine bay of an automobile. Consequently, the Olds 350 cid configuration was chosen.  Now in reference to that. The diesel 350 block was significantly heavier than the standard 350 cid block. You could convert a 350 Diesel to gasoline, but not the other way around. We sold all of used diesel blocks, that we had, to people that made them into drag boat engines. The initial problems with the engine, didn't have to do with the block, but with water in the fuel, Roosa Master pencil fuel injectors, and camshaft/lifter issues. After those were solved, and service stations quit pumping water into the fuel tanks, the engine was a lot more reliable, and did exactly what they were originally intended to do. Get outstanding fuel mileage. By that time, the damage had already been done, any it died a painful death.
Richard
 

I'll offer this, but it is mainly from a Ford perspective since they pretty well dominate the class c market. The V-10 is for the most part a very good engine that is powerfull enough for class c units. A larger class a with that engine may be lacking especially towing in hills but for class c that usually top out at 32 feet it is fine. The current power stroke diesel from Ford is pretty popular with the owners but some previous diesels were not at all popular. Gary mentioned Gulfstream offering them in the BT Cruiser years ago, these were the 6.0 liter motors that most people try to avoid. If ford could produce a good Diesel engine from one generation to the next it would be easier for the public to have enough confidence to fork over a lot more money to purchase one.

Having the experience I have in a class c with the V-10 I would not spend any extra money to get a diesel. I can get 10 mpg, can roll up a  5 mile long 6 % grade at 55 mpg no sweat, and gas is 15 or 20% cheaper than diesel.

Not to exacerbate the old "gas vs. diesel" debate, I just wanted to say that I've been very pleased, and surprised, with the performance of the V10 in my 35'10", 4-slide Class A (24,000 GVWR) while pulling a Honda CRV toad.  Have never been shamed on an incline and while the thing really roars when it winds up to 5K rpm, it does the job.  I'm sure a big diesel, especailly in a quiet rear pusher configuration would be better, but I have never felt the lack of power in any situation I've been in so far.    When they first came out in 1997-8 (?), I drove a C with a V10 just like my prior one with a 460 and it was a gutless wonder.  I swore I would never get a V10 - the 460 was much stronger.  They've come a long way from when they first came out.  Plug blowout fixed, much better torque and HP.  I could wish for better mileage, but in terms of "bang for the buck", they are hard to beat.  If I had enough spare jingle to double the cost of my rig, I'd consider a rear pusher diesel mostly for the ride.  Performance of the modern V10 is entirely satisfactory.  For our purposes, it is really a sweet spot for value, IMO.

Gordon

richconn said:

Gary:
Just a point of reference about the Olds diesel engine. I worked for Olds during the diesel years(1978-1982). If you will remember we were in the midst of a fuel crisis, all of the manufactures were looking for anything that could increase fuel mileage. There was no reliable fuel injection and, cars were riddled with unreliable small computer systems attached to carburetors, to control emissions. The engine was never designed or advertised as an engine for pulling. Its claim to fame was mileage (35 mpg). That was huge in 1978. The engine was designed to fit in a specific hole. The engine bay of an automobile. Consequently, the Olds 350 cid configuration was chosen.  Now in reference to that. The diesel 350 block was significantly heavier than the standard 350 cid block. You could convert a 350 Diesel to gasoline, but not the other way around. We sold all of used diesel blocks, that we had, to people that made them into drag boat engines. The initial problems with the engine, didn't have to do with the block, but with water in the fuel, Roosa Master pencil fuel injectors, and camshaft/lifter issues. After those were solved, and service stations quit pumping water into the fuel tanks, the engine was a lot more reliable, and did exactly what they were originally intended to do. Get outstanding fuel mileage. By that time, the damage had already been done, any it died a painful death.
Richard

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                I loved my Toronado diesel , towed my small open race car trailer all up and down the East coast drag racing back in the 90's with it. Like you said ,quality fuel was everything . It also had air ride so it towed the trailer excellent . Mike