R. J. Barton
Well-known member
Frizlefrak said:
The new 6.7 Ford is even quieter.
True 1/2 Ton truck capabilities
- Thread starter Todd0408
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The new 6.7 Ford is even quieter.
99WinAdventurer37G
Well-known member
My opinion really is based on how often one is going to use a larger diesel truck.
My choice was to replace my older diesel 2500 to pull my 7700lb trailer a few times a year, with a new one, or purchase a 1500 gas V8 that was within it's towing range. As I was looking at doing much less than 2000 miles a year pulling my 7700lb trailer, I opted for the 2011 Ram 1500 Hemi. Had I been a full timer, pulling a fifth wheel, I would have purchased a diesel. My application is pulling a farm trailer, usually back and forth the 40 miles to town, and maybe once every 2 years on a 1,000 mile trip. Otherwise, it's seldom put to "work."
My concern is more for the transmission and drive train, than the motor. My 1500 will pull that 7700lb trailer up hill passing semi's, but the drive train on a 1500 is not built for that type of use, and I'd probably quickly burn it up. A 2500 or 3500 diesel truck is built for that, and will do well for years of full time service in that application. But when one mainly uses the truck as an everyday vehicle, and once a year pulls the fifth wheel on vacation, I'd opt for a 1500 that is well within the towing capacity.
That's how I approached it. (But if I felt good about today's diesel technology as I did in 2003, I'd of gotten a diesel, just because I preferred them back then.)
My choice was to replace my older diesel 2500 to pull my 7700lb trailer a few times a year, with a new one, or purchase a 1500 gas V8 that was within it's towing range. As I was looking at doing much less than 2000 miles a year pulling my 7700lb trailer, I opted for the 2011 Ram 1500 Hemi. Had I been a full timer, pulling a fifth wheel, I would have purchased a diesel. My application is pulling a farm trailer, usually back and forth the 40 miles to town, and maybe once every 2 years on a 1,000 mile trip. Otherwise, it's seldom put to "work."
My concern is more for the transmission and drive train, than the motor. My 1500 will pull that 7700lb trailer up hill passing semi's, but the drive train on a 1500 is not built for that type of use, and I'd probably quickly burn it up. A 2500 or 3500 diesel truck is built for that, and will do well for years of full time service in that application. But when one mainly uses the truck as an everyday vehicle, and once a year pulls the fifth wheel on vacation, I'd opt for a 1500 that is well within the towing capacity.
That's how I approached it. (But if I felt good about today's diesel technology as I did in 2003, I'd of gotten a diesel, just because I preferred them back then.)
A lot of good answers here. However, I think the best one is to do your own research and learn the "real" numbers for truck and trailer. When you look up the tow rating on a tow vehicle, pay attention to the small letters after the truck make and model. They refer to the motor, transmission, rearend gear ratio, etc. and the tow rating varies greatly depending on how the truck is equipped.. Beware what the dealers tell you...look up the numbers yourself. Also be aware that the tow ratings normally allow for a driver of 150 pounds and a full tank of gas and nothing else!! So, when you toss your lunch in, or anything else, you just used up some of that tow rating. Ram has a good guide on the tow rating part of their site with a slide bar. As you add a passenger or weight in the truck bed the tow rating comes down. Playing with that is an education in itself.
I went into a Ram dealer recently and there was a Ram with a sign stuck in the hitch receiver. The sign said "Tow 10,200 pounds with this truck." It failed to say "if you only weight 150 pounds, carry no passengers and the truck is completely empty!!" I looked at the window sticker and it did not list the rearend gear. If it is a 3.92 it will be listed! If not a 3.92 the stock gear is way higher and the tow rating is not over 8,800 pounds. As I was waiting for my truck to be serviced I told the dealer that I had $50 that says the tow rating on that truck was not over 8,800. He didn't take the bet and 20 minutes later the sign was removed. Don't trust what they tell you!!
That said,,,I had a 2003 Ram 1500 Quad cab, 5.7 Hemi with a 3.92 rearend (tow rating 7500 pounds). We pulled a TT with a max gross weight of 6500 pounds and normally were on the road at around 5700 pounds. This handled the mountains great and it was obvious we could handle a heavier load. We traded the truck for a 2012 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 3.92 rearend with a 10,200 pound tow rating. More horse power and torque on this Ram AND better gas mileage. We bought a TT that is 5,060 empty and has a max gross of 10,000 pounds. We are normally on the road at 7,700 pounds or less. Pulls like a dream and handles the mountains great!! There is no doubt that a 2500 and a diesel would do better but why pay the extra bucks to buy it, the gas, the insurance, maintenance, etc. when you don't need it. When we park the trailer at our winter site I have a truck that rides like a car.
I would not have any reasonable sized TT with out a good load distribution hitch with built in anti-sway or add on anti-sway device. Now, all that said. I found the the newer Rams with the front and back coil springs are a little soft sprung in the back. I added a set of Airlift 1,000 air bags that I picked up new for $88 and installed them myself (no drilling). What a fantastic improvement for the Ram!!
Happy with the 1/2 ton Ram towing 7,700 pounds.
I went into a Ram dealer recently and there was a Ram with a sign stuck in the hitch receiver. The sign said "Tow 10,200 pounds with this truck." It failed to say "if you only weight 150 pounds, carry no passengers and the truck is completely empty!!" I looked at the window sticker and it did not list the rearend gear. If it is a 3.92 it will be listed! If not a 3.92 the stock gear is way higher and the tow rating is not over 8,800 pounds. As I was waiting for my truck to be serviced I told the dealer that I had $50 that says the tow rating on that truck was not over 8,800. He didn't take the bet and 20 minutes later the sign was removed. Don't trust what they tell you!!
That said,,,I had a 2003 Ram 1500 Quad cab, 5.7 Hemi with a 3.92 rearend (tow rating 7500 pounds). We pulled a TT with a max gross weight of 6500 pounds and normally were on the road at around 5700 pounds. This handled the mountains great and it was obvious we could handle a heavier load. We traded the truck for a 2012 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 3.92 rearend with a 10,200 pound tow rating. More horse power and torque on this Ram AND better gas mileage. We bought a TT that is 5,060 empty and has a max gross of 10,000 pounds. We are normally on the road at 7,700 pounds or less. Pulls like a dream and handles the mountains great!! There is no doubt that a 2500 and a diesel would do better but why pay the extra bucks to buy it, the gas, the insurance, maintenance, etc. when you don't need it. When we park the trailer at our winter site I have a truck that rides like a car.
I would not have any reasonable sized TT with out a good load distribution hitch with built in anti-sway or add on anti-sway device. Now, all that said. I found the the newer Rams with the front and back coil springs are a little soft sprung in the back. I added a set of Airlift 1,000 air bags that I picked up new for $88 and installed them myself (no drilling). What a fantastic improvement for the Ram!!
Happy with the 1/2 ton Ram towing 7,700 pounds.
Just back today from a 500 mile round trip with our 2009 dodge Ram 1500 4x4, 5.7 hemi. Going east from Tempe AZ to BigLake, AZ is a climb from 1200 ft to 9500 ft over approximately 250 miles with 6% grades up and down in many places. Wind wasn't a factor on this trip. We averaged 10.6 going uphill and 13.6 returning downhill. Out TT weighs 6300 lbs plus I had a 12 ft aluminum boat mounted over the truck on a rack. I used cruise control set at 55-60 mph in tow/haul mode. On the 6% grade climbs I slowed to 50 mph to maintain RPM at 3000-3200. It was an easy trip and I didn't used the brakes much on the downhill sections using engine rpm to control speed. Just needed to tap the brakes occasionally.
skyking1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2011
- Posts
- 833
Sounds like a perfect run, Lowell 
Of that class, the 24 valve Dodges from 1998.5 to 2002 are quieter than the Fords. At 2003 the common rails are even quieter, but people are quite proud of them.
The early duramaxes are pretty quiet too, but also in that price point somewhere north of "depreciated".
All of the above are dramatically quieter than my old 12 valve. YOu can hear the explosions ;D
Older, depreciated. I see all sorts of replies from folks with 2012 trucks and 6.7s. I think they missed your question entirely!workerdrone said:
Of that class, the 24 valve Dodges from 1998.5 to 2002 are quieter than the Fords. At 2003 the common rails are even quieter, but people are quite proud of them.
The early duramaxes are pretty quiet too, but also in that price point somewhere north of "depreciated".
All of the above are dramatically quieter than my old 12 valve. YOu can hear the explosions ;D
workerdrone
Well-known member
^thanks
spoton
Member
This may put your question in perspective. I have a 2008 F350 SuperDuty diesel super cab pulling a Lance trailer that is about 20 feet long and 3900 dry and 5000 GTW. I get 11.4 mi/gal traveling through northern California and Oregon mountains. The OEM hitch on the truck is rated for 5000 GTW and 600 pounds of tongue weight with a weight bearing hitch, and 12,000 GTW and 1250 tongue for a weight distribution hitch. I was surprised when I measured tongue weight fully loaded that it was about 755 pounds. This trailer has a big slide that adds weight. So even with a big truck and relatively small trailer I need a WD hitch. This also apparent in the way the truck handles, light on the front end with the current ball mount. Yet I have seen F150s hauling larger trailers. I had a Heartland MPG trailer that was the same length (20') but was 2700 pounds dry that towed much more easily. Hope this helps you.
Even if the manufacturer of the 1/2 ton rate the truck with a 10,000LB tow capacity, I would never use a 1/2 ton pick up to tow a trailer. The 3/4 ton not only have a larger and safer towing capacity, they also have heavier duty brakes, suspension, and transmissions.
All 1/2 ton trucks aren't the same.Todd0408 said:
The '00's 1500 Mega cab Hemi is on the same frame as the 2500/3500 SRW trucks with a 8510 GVWR 6000 RAWR with E tires and wheels and 3k payloads.
The '00-'06 1500 HD GM has a 8600 GVWR with 6084 RAWR E tires and wheels 6.0 and a 4.10 gears and 3k payloads.
The '00's- to current F150HD have a 8200 GVWR with 4800 RAWR E tires and wheel with a 11xxx lb tow rating and up to 3k payloads.
The 1500 Hemi won't have any issues pulling its tow rating. The new 1500 Rams with the 3.92 and the 5.7 Hemi have up to a 10300 lb tow rating so a small 4k-5k dry or 7k wet TT will be a pleasure to tow in the mountains.
The big issue with pulling a 10k trailer is the 1500 Ram has a very low axle ratings. Depending on truck selection but payloads can run from 1100 up to around 1600 lbs.
hoddinron
Well-known member
Just my 2 cents worth.
Recently changed from very capable 1/2 ton RAM with Hemi to new RAM 3/4 ton with Cummins diesel.
I'm about 8000 miles into an 11,000 mile trip from Florida to the Pacific NW.
Main differences between trucks (same fifth wheel) are:
Much better control going down steep grades due to engine brake in Cummings. Takes 5 percent grades without touching brakes.
Going up 5 percent grades in tow/haul mode truck stays in high gear at 1500 RPM
Much better fuel economy with Cummings diesel. 13.5 flats - 11.5 in steep mountains
In some places in California the diesel fuel was actually cheaper!
It just feels like it's meant to tow! True, it rides a bit rougher. That's the only downside I can see so far.
Ron and Joyce at West Yellowstone.
Recently changed from very capable 1/2 ton RAM with Hemi to new RAM 3/4 ton with Cummins diesel.
I'm about 8000 miles into an 11,000 mile trip from Florida to the Pacific NW.
Main differences between trucks (same fifth wheel) are:
Much better control going down steep grades due to engine brake in Cummings. Takes 5 percent grades without touching brakes.
Going up 5 percent grades in tow/haul mode truck stays in high gear at 1500 RPM
Much better fuel economy with Cummings diesel. 13.5 flats - 11.5 in steep mountains
In some places in California the diesel fuel was actually cheaper!
It just feels like it's meant to tow! True, it rides a bit rougher. That's the only downside I can see so far.
Ron and Joyce at West Yellowstone.
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
Exactly why a new 2500 Cummins is on my shopping list this year.....
R. J. Barton
Well-known member
Frizlefrak said:
Are you going to get an automatic transmission?
Frizlefrak
Well-known member
R. J. Barton said:
Yes. I'd be ok with either, but Wifey has to be able to drive it. That means Auto.
spoton
Member
I am pulling a Lance 1685 (GTW 5000 lbs) with a 3/4 ton F350 Superduty diesel 4WD. Initially I thought no problem with the OEM Class III hitch and didn't get a weight distributing hitch. Then I measured tongue weight under a variety of conditions.
Tongue weight = 575 pounds with 2 propane tanks, 2 series 27 bats, kitchen gear, empty frig, no clothes.
Tongue weight = 775 pounds with a full tank of water (tank is in front of the axle.
I measured this multiple times using the beam and bathroom scale method, and a Sheline tongue weight scale. The methods agree. Note, if you measure the tongue weight on the tongue jack it will be less than the weight at the hitch depending on how far back the hitch is located. You can measure weight at hitch and at jack, and then multiple jack measurements by hatchet/jack wt. Tongue weight for purposes of sizing a WD hitch includes gear in the vehicle behind the rear axle. My bear (2 bikes, rack, hitch, extra propane, folding table, generator gas, fishing stuff, windsurfing stuff etc) is 325 pounds. Thus with a full load and full water tank the tongue weight is 1100 pounds. Glad my truck hitch is rated for 1200 pounds with a weight distribution hitch.
I looked through towing specs for 2013 trucks 3/4 ton or less and found NONE that can pull this 20' trailer with a weight bearing hitch. All are rated at about 500 lbs tongue weight, some 600. Some say 10,000 but if you read the fine print it specifies a WD hitch for any trailer greater than 5000 GTW. I doubt any SUV could pull this trailer without a WD hitch without being over spec.
Pulling over the rating of a hitch is a liability issue. You may be liable if there is an accident. It is also a handling issue. My F350 was notably light on the front end with a weight bearing hitch. Nice and solid with the WD hitch.
Seriously. Get a WD hitch and be safe. They should be included in the price of the trailer. My experience is that this information is not volunteered by the dealer and takes some work and expense to figure out.
Tongue weight = 575 pounds with 2 propane tanks, 2 series 27 bats, kitchen gear, empty frig, no clothes.
Tongue weight = 775 pounds with a full tank of water (tank is in front of the axle.
I measured this multiple times using the beam and bathroom scale method, and a Sheline tongue weight scale. The methods agree. Note, if you measure the tongue weight on the tongue jack it will be less than the weight at the hitch depending on how far back the hitch is located. You can measure weight at hitch and at jack, and then multiple jack measurements by hatchet/jack wt. Tongue weight for purposes of sizing a WD hitch includes gear in the vehicle behind the rear axle. My bear (2 bikes, rack, hitch, extra propane, folding table, generator gas, fishing stuff, windsurfing stuff etc) is 325 pounds. Thus with a full load and full water tank the tongue weight is 1100 pounds. Glad my truck hitch is rated for 1200 pounds with a weight distribution hitch.
I looked through towing specs for 2013 trucks 3/4 ton or less and found NONE that can pull this 20' trailer with a weight bearing hitch. All are rated at about 500 lbs tongue weight, some 600. Some say 10,000 but if you read the fine print it specifies a WD hitch for any trailer greater than 5000 GTW. I doubt any SUV could pull this trailer without a WD hitch without being over spec.
Pulling over the rating of a hitch is a liability issue. You may be liable if there is an accident. It is also a handling issue. My F350 was notably light on the front end with a weight bearing hitch. Nice and solid with the WD hitch.
Seriously. Get a WD hitch and be safe. They should be included in the price of the trailer. My experience is that this information is not volunteered by the dealer and takes some work and expense to figure out.
Mopar1973Man
Well-known member
hoddinron said:
I'm a old school Cummins myself. I can pull at about the same MPG. I'm classed a bit stronger than you though at about 400 HP / 900 TQ to the ground. (Yes. I'm modifed). But also running a exhaust brake as well. Out here in Idaho I climb grades that are 16% and some steeper. Yes my ride is a bit rough with the RV as well nothing new. Where I shine at is when the truck is empty my MPG's are well into the 20's.
Thing is I plan on keeping this TV till it goes to the moon and back. I'm just about to the moon now with 221k on the clock.
hoddinron
Well-known member
The past few days we picked up a tailwind heading south on 75 toward home in FL. MPG Guage went up to 15.2 and was steady over 15 until we out ran the cold front. Then it dropped to 14.6.
I have measured 22 without towing on this trip, but no higher. I'm delighted with the performance and miles per gallon.
I think the main reason we get better than average MPG readings is that we tow at 55MPH.
Ron and Joyce 5 miles from the Florida Line tonight. 8)
I have measured 22 without towing on this trip, but no higher. I'm delighted with the performance and miles per gallon.
I think the main reason we get better than average MPG readings is that we tow at 55MPH.
Ron and Joyce 5 miles from the Florida Line tonight. 8)
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Thanks for the report. A 6000# trailer should be within the capability of most half ton trucks.
woodyacres17
Member
I know I will probably get lectured here, but I have a 2012 F150 Ecoboost with 3.73 rear end. I pull a 31 foot Jayco Eagle Superlite. Dryweight is 8145#'s. The truck has no issues pulling it and I have not had any problems so far with control. I have 900 miles on it so far. I am very conscious of putting most of the weight in the back of the trailer to keep it off the tongue. I did pull it full of water once, but only f or about 5 miles and all dirt roads, so I never went over 30 mph. I can definitely feel the trailer when towing, but really only on accelerations and roads that are really rough. Yesterday's trip on 96 through Grand RAPIDS, MI was a tough one. The right lane was very bumpy. The truck is very capable, but I am sure I am either very close to my GVW or even over some, but for now it is what it is until I can afford to upgrade. Then I am getting an F350 so I don't ever have to worry about weight. Upgrading the trailer sometime in the future is possible and I don't want to be restricted again.
My wife and I are small people weighing about 160 each and I have only one 4 yr old boy. Otherwise we keep the cab pretty empty and the truck bed empty or lightweight things in it. I had it loaded up fairly heavy my first trip and I can definitely feel it. The weight distributing hitch makes a huge difference though and I probably wouldn't want to pull this thing without it. Good luck in choosing your truck. Just thought I would give you some info. 1/2 tons are very capable of pulling, it's the handling that you need to be conscious of. Oh, and gas mileage is about 9 mph average at about 62 - 67 mph so far. I usually get 19.5 on my daily commute, each tank of gas. One other note, the Ecoboost has the turbo, so that helps with the power.
My wife and I are small people weighing about 160 each and I have only one 4 yr old boy. Otherwise we keep the cab pretty empty and the truck bed empty or lightweight things in it. I had it loaded up fairly heavy my first trip and I can definitely feel it. The weight distributing hitch makes a huge difference though and I probably wouldn't want to pull this thing without it. Good luck in choosing your truck. Just thought I would give you some info. 1/2 tons are very capable of pulling, it's the handling that you need to be conscious of. Oh, and gas mileage is about 9 mph average at about 62 - 67 mph so far. I usually get 19.5 on my daily commute, each tank of gas. One other note, the Ecoboost has the turbo, so that helps with the power.
