Foreign Snowbirds in U.S., IRS wants You!

[buchanan]

I'm confused now...what is it about the last 3 yrs?  I'm obviously missing something, sorry.

D.

Just carefully read the 8840 form.Its all explained very clearly and very simple to figure out

[buchanan]

QUOTE:
Quote from: Hfx_CDN
Canadians are allowed entry to the US as a visitor for up to 6 months without paperwork.
QUOTE from STEVE CDN
In fact, Canadians or other "aliens" who remain in the U.S. for six months or less (according to the calculation of the 8840 exemption) are expected to file paperwork in the form of the 8840 Closer Connection Exemption.

Yes but the form 8840 has NOTHING to do with your entry. you can enter the us without any paperwork (other than showing a passport)Form 8840 IS NOT a requirement to enter.  you have up to 6 months after the current tax year end to file a form 8840

[buchanan]

Thanks Steve. I missed this part of your earlier message:

When we entered Canada (at Niagara Falls, before we came to visit you and Ginette), the Canadian officer looked at, but didn't scan, our passports. She did, however, smile and say "have a nice day" 

Are you sure our governments share information? Our government agencies can't share information among themselves 

I would find it extremely hard to believe that she never scanned your passports as that's a requirement of their job to do so just like the yanks do to us going down
When I go home to Canada they always scan my passports, always

[Elly Dalmaijer]

Form 8840 is needed for my  point 2.

It is true that Canadians can stay for 6 months without paperwork because that is the US Government.
(My point 1)

It is the IRS that has separate rules. They don't use the term "6 months" but "183 days).
So if you were in 2013 140 days in the US, in 2012 120 days, and in 2011 120 days, then your magic number of days for IRS purposes is 140 plus 40 (1/3 of 120) plus 20 (1/6 of 120) is 200 days which is over 183 and you have to complete and file (each person their own) the closer connection form.

In other word: for 2013 were less than 6 months so you are fine with the US Government but IRS goes by 3 years/183 days and you have to do extra paperwork for the IRS.

For us as Canadians our Provincial Healthcare wants us to be in our province. So if we'd go for 2 months to visit relatives in another province in Canada and then continue south for another 6 months... we're in deep trouble! 8 months away from our home province and we're no longer covered by our AHC which of course also invalidates our travel medical insurance.....

Sigh.....

[buchanan]

Form 8840 is needed for my  point 2.

It is true that Canadians can stay for 6 months without paperwork because that is the US Government.
(My point 1)

It is the IRS that has separate rules. They don't use the term "6 months" but "183 days).
So if you were in 2013 140 days in the US, in 2012 120 days, and in 2011 120 days, then your magic number of days for IRS purposes is 140 plus 40 (1/3 of 120) plus 20 (1/6 of 120) is 200 days which is over 183 and you have to complete and file (each person their own) the closer connection form.

In other word: for 2013 were less than 6 months so you are fine with the US Government but IRS goes by 3 years/183 days and you have to do extra paperwork for the IRS.

For us as Canadians our Provincial Healthcare wants us to be in our province. So if we'd go for 2 months to visit relatives in another province in Canada and then continue south for another 6 months... we're in deep trouble! 8 months away from our home province and we're no longer covered by our AHC which of course also invalidates our travel medical insurance.....

Sigh.....

that's technically very true  but the chances of them ever knowing  if u happened to  go out province to another province would almost be impossible for them to trace.

[Elly Dalmaijer]

that's technically very true  but the chances of them ever knowing  if u happened to  go out province to another province would almost be impossible for them to trace.

...... and I am so happy that this is true. But one very innocent call to AHC with a very innocent question ("Can I get for 6 months medication?") and you're in AHC's computers as "a person of possible interest". No problem if you have no medical claim while you;re gone but if you try to make a claim in that last month on your our-of-country travel medical..... those guys will try anything to get out of paying and they can easily find out through credit card records etc that you were gone, so your underlying AHC is not there and therefore you are not covered when you have your heart attack in the US in that last month..... Scary scenario but possible....?

[Tom]

I would find it extremely hard to believe that she never scanned your passports ...

Believe what you will, but I reported it the way I saw it. I didn't make it up 

[Alfa38User]

that's technically very true  but the chances of them ever knowing  if u happened to  go out province to another province would almost be impossible for them to trace.

Not completely true though!!

Should you take sick, you will have to make a claim against your own provincial (Medicare) insurance at one point (unless you choose to bite the bullet).  They then ask all the pertinent questions.  Even if you have another outside (private perhaps) insurance, the first payer is always your Medicare, the outside insurance only pays the difference and they will often claim on your behalf from Medicare. (The actual procedure can vary from insurance company to insurance company as to who will claim from Medicare - mine does it on my behalf). Either way, count on LOTS of paperwork.

If you don't make any claim then the point is moot. Apart from ordering more than 3 months of medication (which is coded differently at least here in Que (RAMQ) from the usual 1-2-3 month order .), it would be, as you say, difficult for them to know.

Been there, done that!!

(I see "buchanan", you have learned a great deal about the F8840 and associated rules in the last few days!! GOOD SHOW (but several of the posts you responded to above on the subject  were from 2011!!)  Been there, done that too!!!! heh heh

[buchanan]

long convoluted  conspiracies    all I said was a province under normal circumstances does not trace nor really have the ability to trace your stay when your out of province
iam not on any medications and see the doc once a year.  never been quizzed about date time. I think if they really wanted to track they could all they would have to do is send a form you must fill out decalring where u have resided on what dates j

[Alfa38User]

I think if they really wanted to track they could all they would have to do is send a form you must fill out......

Heh heh, My company pension plan does that every several years just to see if I am still breathing... They call it an audit.....

You are very fortunate to be in good health. There are many, many of us who require medication on a regular basis, at least according to our "quacks".....

And here, RAMQ (Medicare) does send out a confirm and return form for us confirm a medical services claim from time to time as a check against fraud..... Not quite the same but it does substantiate, for the most part, that you are living where you say you are.

Continued good health