surround sound question

Here is my set up.

When we purchased the Beaver, there was a Sony DVD player in the cabinet that is next to the TV. It was not hooked up. We had the dealer take off the old Kingdome satellite dish, and replaced it with the Winegard Trav'ler we had on the Endeavor. There was a snake pit of wires and coils in that cabinet which I shunted in to a corner, unless they were needed.

The only thing in the cabinet now is the Winegard controller, the DirecTV receiver, and a Blu-ray player.

The coach has 5 black speakers in the front area, which I assume were at some time part of a surround sound system. There are also 6 ceiling speakers that have output from the in dash radio and XM radio.

The black speakers have clear wires going in to them, and I found a bunch of wires like that with "telephone type" plugs on the end, in the cabinet. Could they be the speaker wires that would have plugged in to that Sony that I tossed out? Is there anything on the market today that would accept such wires with those plugs? If not, can I snip off the "telephone" plugs and connect something else that would fit in a modern amplifier so I can see if the speakers work? I'm guessing the black speakers had output from the TV and the DVD/CD player. Right now, I have a flat panel HD Samsung TV, and the only sound I get is out of the speakers which are on the bottom of the TV. Not good for an old guy who is hard of hearing.

The input to the TV now is an HDMI cable from the DirecTV receiver, for picture and sound. How could I run that through an amp that would work the black speakers?

I'm wondering if any of the electronics gurus here have any ideas or suggestions. Thank you in advance.

Stan

It's likely the wires with plugs are for the speakers.  You can trace them with a 1.5V battery by touching the leads to the battery and listening for a speaker to click.  Once you determine which wires go to which speaker, label them.  There should also be a subwoofer somewhere.  Then I would look for a home theater that you can connect the speaker wires to.  Connect the optical digital audio output from the DirecTV receiver to the amplifier and turn off the TV speakers.  That's how we have our DirecTV wired for surround sound.  Connect the DVD player to the amplifier too with whatever connection is available (HDMI, composite, component).

Stan,

I still have the DVD player that came with my Beaver, and it's more than just a DVD player -- it also is the amplifier (and preamp) that controls sound sources and provides enough power to drive the set of speakers (the ones you properly think of as surround). There is even a "sub-woofer" for it in a cabinet under the dinette table. And yes, those wires with the odd plug are for the speakers -- you could clip off the connectors and hook each resulting wire pair to some other amplifier (not to the RCA "line out" type jacks), if you can find one small enough to fit in the "entertainment cabinet." Be careful, though, as I also have a couple of other similar connectors on the back of my Sony that are for something else (I've not looked for what they feed yet). Also be careful to get the proper wire hooked to the proper speaker output on your amp (may take some experimenting).

The speakers that play FM, XM, etc. are totally separate and independent.

The only thing in the cabinet now is the Winegard controller, the DirecTV receiver, and a Blu-ray player.

Click to expand...

Wiring for my automatic awnings is also in there (behind the inverter/charger and Kingdome control panels).

The input to the TV now is an HDMI cable from the DirecTV receiver, for picture and sound. How could I run that through an amp that would work the black speakers?

Click to expand...

If you can access the line out (audio out) or, in a pinch, speaker out jacks from the TV, you could run cables from there to a surround amp. Also, you could use some of the audio outputs on the DirectTV receiver to feed an amp, keeping the TV speakers low or turned off (depending on the TV's capability).

To complete an acceptable sounding system, you will need to gain physical access to one of those "black" speakers to determine the speaker impedance characteristics.  They are most likely 4, 6, or 8 ohms.  You will want to select a compatible suround sound amp with the same characteristics.

Just Lou said:

To complete an acceptable sounding system, you will need to gain physical access to one of those "black" speakers to determine the speaker impedance characteristics.  They are most likely 4, 6, or 8 ohms.  You will want to select a compatible suround sound amp with the same characteristics.

Click to expand...

Lou,

As you can see in the picture above, the speakers are on the end of cabinets with doors. I can see the backs of them in the cabinets, and the wires. Will they be marked with their Ohmage (such a word?)? Or do I have to test them somehow?

Stan

Larry N. said:

Stan,

I still have the DVD player that came with my Beaver, and it's more than just a DVD player -- it also is the amplifier (and preamp) that controls sound sources and provides enough power to drive the set of speakers (the ones you properly think of as surround). There is even a "sub-woofer" for it in a cabinet under the dinette table. And yes, those wires with the odd plug are for the speakers -- you could clip off the connectors and hook each resulting wire pair to some other amplifier (not to the RCA "line out" type jacks), if you can find one small enough to fit in the "entertainment cabinet." Be careful, though, as I also have a couple of other similar connectors on the back of my Sony that are for something else (I've not looked for what they feed yet). Also be careful to get the proper wire hooked to the proper speaker output on your amp (may take some experimenting).

The speakers that play FM, XM, etc. are totally separate and independent.

Wiring for my automatic awnings is also in there (behind the inverter/charger and Kingdome control panels).

If you can access the line out (audio out) or, in a pinch, speaker out jacks from the TV, you could run cables from there to a surround amp. Also, you could use some of the audio outputs on the DirectTV receiver to feed an amp, keeping the TV speakers low or turned off (depending on the TV's capability).

Click to expand...

Thanks, Larry. Two questions based on the bold type. Can I just find an amp that has those alligator type clips (not exactly but close) that wires will clip in to? If I use the audio outputs on the DirecTV receiver to feed an amp, will it cut out the audio from the HDMI cable? Also, I'm pretty sure I can shut off the TV speakers, as Ned suggested. By the way, my automatic awning controls are as shown in the picture below. They are with the Inverter/charger monitor, and the power for the awning over the entry door. That cabinet is over the co-pilot's chair.

Ned said:

It's likely the wires with plugs are for the speakers.  You can trace them with a 1.5V battery by touching the leads to the battery and listening for a speaker to click.  Once you determine which wires go to which speaker, label them.  There should also be a subwoofer somewhere.  Then I would look for a home theater that you can connect the speaker wires to.  Connect the optical digital audio output from the DirecTV receiver to the amplifier and turn off the TV speakers.  That's how we have our DirecTV wired for surround sound.  Connect the DVD player to the amplifier too with whatever connection is available (HDMI, composite, component).

Click to expand...

Thanks, Ned. I think the wires are already labled, thank goodness. By 1.5 volt battery, do you mean like a AA Duracell? Would you just suggest that I find an amp on Ebay that will be compatible. I don't need any other parts, as far as I know.

Stan

A AA battery will work fine.  If you can find just an amplifier, great, but most will include speakers.  The most important thing is to match the impedance, as mentioned.  Do look for an amp that has a digital optical audio input as that will be the easiest way to get surround sound from the DirecTV receiver.  Turn the TV speakers off or just turn the volume to 0 as the HDMI will still feed the audio to the TV.

Just Lou said:

To complete an acceptable sounding system, you will need to gain physical access to one of those "black" speakers to determine the speaker impedance characteristics.  They are most likely 4, 6, or 8 ohms.  You will want to select a compatible suround sound amp with the same characteristics.

Click to expand...

Chances are good they are 4 ohm, but in any case many amps today will work with, and automatically adjust to, the impedance. Others have specific connections (or dip switches on a very few) that are impedance specific.

Stan's manual that came with the DVD/amp (if he still has it) should tell what impedance it worked with (I think the speakers were part of the package).

Note to Stan: You can't just use an ohmmeter to measure impedance, because it isn't a straight resistance -- it varies with frequency (among other things), and either requires a very special meter or involved calculations -- simpler to get info out of the manual. I just went and looked at one of my 5 little black (two are white) speakers, and there are no markings on them anywhere, except for the + and - next to the wire terminals on the speaker, to help you get the correct polarity.

Thanks, Larry. Two questions based on the bold type. Can I just find an amp that has those alligator type clips (not exactly but close) that wires will clip in to? If I use the audio outputs on the DirecTV receiver to feed an amp, will it cut out the audio from the HDMI cable? Also, I'm pretty sure I can shut off the TV speakers, as Ned suggested. By the way, my automatic awning controls are as shown in the picture below. They are with the Inverter/charger monitor, and the power for the awning over the entry door. That cabinet is over the co-pilot's chair.

Click to expand...

I suspect the connectors are unique to certain Sony products (maybe not), but you should be able to find an amp with either a post (for wrapping around) that has a screw down over the wire or one that wires fit into a hole that opens when you press a button on the amp connection. Either one will work.

I don't have the receiver you are asking about, but I think that the HDMI audio is independent from the other audio outputs, so I'd not expect a problem.

Judging by the pic, our cabinet setups are different (I don't have a pic now, could get one if needed).

Hope this helps.

Changing the type of connector on the end of the speaker wires is a trivial job. Cut them off and attach new ones of whatever type (or none, if just bare wires are inserted into a spring clasp on the back).  Radio Shack - or even Ebay - should be able to get connectors to match whatever brand of receiver you choose.

Yours probably look like these, which are a proprietary plug used in many Sonys and also some Pioneer and Samsung units as well.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Yamaha-Sony-Samsung-Pioneer-Speaker-connectors-4-2mm-HTIB-Home-Theater-/171033872646

Do you think something like this will work? I asked the seller for the impedance parameters, and he said the manual said it will drive 4 to 8 ohm speakers.

http:cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBaylSAPl.dll?ViewItem&item=251329602676&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

parttymer said:

Do you think something like this will work? I asked the seller for the impedance parameters, and he said the manual said it will drive 4 to 8 ohm speakers.

http:cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBaylSAPl.dll?ViewItem&item=251329602676&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Click to expand...

I have no idea -- never heard of Adcom, and "3 channels" makes little sense to me. How many individual speaker outputs does it have, and what are they intended for (L/R/C/surround/sub/?/???)? How many devices will it accept (phono, cassette or other line level inputs?

There's not much info there.

I just googled, and this page indicates that there are rear channels and center channel, but no front (L/R) channels, apparently intended to add to an existing stereo-only amp, so I doubt it'll do what you want.

I see that Larry. Thanks. Back to the drawing board.

Stan

Today, as suggested by Ned, I took the 6 leads...only 2 of them were labeled, but I think the labels on the others have just fallen off...and touched them with a 1.5 volt battery. There was a static noise from a speaker for each one, but my hearing is not what it used to be, so it was hard to determine which wire went to which one, except for the obvious one right next to the electronics cabinet.

There IS a sub-woofer in a cabinet under the dinette as suggested by Larry N. I plan to take Becky with me on the next trip to the coach, and she can help me identify which wire is for what speaker.

So, with all of your help, I'm making progress. I will update as I go.

Stan

Are there any markings or characteristics on the wires to help you determine polarity?  Try to determine the polarity of each and make sure they are all wired the same in the final install.

Just Lou said:

Are there any markings or characteristics on the wires to help you determine polarity?  Try to determine the polarity of each and make sure they are all wired the same in the final install.

Click to expand...

A good point, Lou, since that will have very noticeable effects on the sound if the phasing isn't the same.

I'm thinking this will work. I noticed that the speaker wires and connectors I have are just like this. Can someone look at the back of this amp and tell me if all 6 speakers will hook to it...5 speakers and the sub-woofer? The wires I have are different shades, one silver, one copper, so I will hook them all the same. Does it matter which way? When I'm testing with the 1.5V battery, should one specific color be on positive and the other on negative, or can they be mixed?

Thanks Lou, Ned, Gary, and Larry.

Stan

Assuming they are all wired the same way, look on the back of one speaker to determine polarity and the observe that for all of them. If that doesn't work (no markings), observe a speaker when you connect the battery for movement of the cone. I believe it moves out (toward you) when the polarity is correct and it may then be taken from how the battery is connected to get the desired movement. Finally, as I recall, the copper wire should be positive, but that is one of those things that may be manufacturer dependent.

Ernie

What Ernie said.

Ernie,

Should I take the front cover off the speaker to see if the cone moves?

I'm sorry for the dumb questions. I'm just an end user for almost everything technical.

Stan