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Author Topic: Importing an RV to Canada from the USA plus CSA, ESA, and TSSA certifications  (Read 6815 times)

BCinTOR

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Last year I imported my Thor ACE 30.1 from New York to Ontario and thought I should share a post to help others with the process.  It's easy to do on your own.

I also want to let people know that Ontario dealers are forcing owners to "bring their unit to code" with ESA and TSSA certifications that appear to be unnecessary.  I've been quoted $1000 to $2000 for the process before one Thor dealer will touch my unit for service.  Two prior dealers simply refused to service the unit either paid for by me or under the North American warranty that Thor will reimburse them for.

There's also many FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) statements from RV dealers like campgrounds won't accept non-CSA approved units or that your insurance company won't cover you.  Obviously double check with your insurance company but mine was very familiar with the details and had no problem covering the RV right from Buffalo onward before it was even licensed in Ontario.

The Ontario RV Dealers Association has educated their members to require the CSA label or enforce the ESA and TSSA inspections and costs before servicing the units.  I think it's just a penalty designed to dissuade consumers from buying for less in the U.S.  If anyone can provide a government website link that states these are actually required on imported RV's I'm happy to update this post and linked document.

The importation first step is to visit the Registrar of Imported Vechicles website: http://www.riv.ca/ImporterChecklist.aspx

Many RV's qualify for import without an inspection by RIV and require only a free inspection at your local Canadian Tire.

MTO accepts either RVIA NFPA 1192 or CSA Standard Z240 RV for registering/licensing your RV.  The two standards will be harmonized into one eventually for North America.

Note that you may be able to order your RV from the factory with a CSA sticker.  Forum posts have priced the cost at about $200 for some trailers.  Many units are built to comply with both standards with the only difference being the sticker.

I've created a detailed Google document on the topic available here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EwVoFluNVHD9w1g1CoCCXfNpaEjk4eW3hzlv8T7MhcQ/edit?usp=sharing

Please let me know of anything you feel I should add or revise on the shared document.

Regards
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 06:42:04 AM by BCinTOR »
2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd

Alfa38User

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Interesting document!!

Sounds like a very familiar story of a couple of years ago when Honda, perhaps among others,  refused to honor warranties of any of their new vehicles purchased in USA and then imported into Canada. (There were quite large differences in the purchase prices at that time). Some manufacturers seemed to adjust the prices a bit up here once the facts came out but..... who knows for sure with all the number crunching that is possible on auto retail prices.

The American built coaches imported specifically for sale up here that I have seen, came with a CSA sticker affixed and, of course, had things like Daytime Running Lights etc fully functional. Most speedos were in miles with the small numbers in KM but on any newer ones with electronic gauges, that point is probably moot. A friend of mine had  bought and imported a new Phaeton into Ontario himself several years ago and I believe it had the CSA sticker already attached to it when he picked it up on the USA side, the speedo was in miles and was not even remarked on by C.Tire. His entire inspection consisted of " New coach??"; "Yes": "Nice", "Here are your papers...." Maybe they tested the lights, he did not say. They certainly did not drive it as it was air brakes equipped (thus requiring a bit of experience and a drivers license endorsement in Ont.)

This has never been a problem in the past, especially with used vehicles, and there must be hundreds, if not thousands of them already licensed in Ontario and the ROC.

Did you actually write and send that note at the end of your document??  If so, any results??

I hope you don't run into any real problems on your coach requiring a Thor dealership with the attitude being exhibited by these people. I doubt any campgrounds will refuse campers not having stickers as they seldom examine the actual vehicles anyway and, as a result, would never know .....
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:29:04 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

Tom

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This is similar to the "type approval" being required in the UK and Europe. Separately, the UK has/had a width restriction of 96" (2.44M). There's quite a bit of discussion on these subjects on our RV ownership the UK message board.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

BCinTOR

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Thanks Alfa38 for the feedback.

I haven't sent the note at the end of the document yet.  I thought I would see what other's on the forum have to say first and then send to the ORVDA.

Fortunately I can still get major service in Buffalo 2 hours away.   I've found a local truck shop for the Ford engine and a body shop after I got backed into in a parking lot.

A contact of mine is going to write a magazine article about the topic so that might get their attention. :)

My Canadian Tire inspection was very similar.  He just wrote down some weight numbers on his form and didn't even check if the lights came on with the ignition.

Interesting document!!

Did you actually write and send that note at the end of your document??  If so, any results??

2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd

ruthandken CDN

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When we bought our Class A from a dealer in Arizona we had them drive it up for us, it was really cheap, less than what the gas cost.  Don't know how they did that!!!  Anyhow, they took care of all the paperwork at the border.  We signed some papers when they delivered it here.  Then we had to take it to Canadian Tire for a test, that was a laugh.  That was very cheap, under $100.  Then because it was motorized we had to have our dealer check it out and authorize it for safety.  That cost a few hundred but again didn't break the bank.  What did almost break the bank was when we went to register and get license stickers for it, then we had to pay the GST on it.  Holy doodle!!!  But all in all it was a fairly simple process and we'd do it again if the price were right.
Ken & Ruth,
fur kid, Jackson(golden retriever)
2013 Jayco Pinnacle 36 REQS
2011 F350 Ford Super Duty Dually with crew cub
Dogs are not my whole life but they made my life whole.
http://fivejustrolling.blogspot.com/

BCinTOR

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I'm continuing to update the linked document.  Magazine article is in progress.

Can anyone provide insight into the comment from Bella Vista RV Centre Inc on their Youtube video that the importer is liable for the life of the vehicle? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMU0y0Qjoak

Quote
Bella Vista RV Centre Inc
2 weeks ago
in reply to yamahonkawazuki
 
Some Canadians have purchased State side to learn that the Coach cost more once they had to have the certifications done. Also, they need to know that they would hold the liability for life on the coach when they import it if there is ever a problem.

Seems unsubstantiated to me.
2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd

Alfa38User

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I viewed the video but did not note any comment about anyone being liable for anything for the life of the vehicle in the video. DiMartini has a very similar video but with no comments, just music. I can believe  "additional costs",  but liability? For what?? The liability statement seems to come from the Hitching Post dealership's "fact" sheet. This 'fact sheet' seems to contain a lot of very questionable statements with some of those 'facts' only applying to Ontario.... Can you say "hidden agenda" or "biased opinion"??

Off Topic but...
Does this unit have air brakes and air suspension? I doubt it since there is no mention anywhere and that should be a big selling point!! (I could not find the info anywhere and was wondering about the standard Ontario drivers license statement in the Bella Vista video...)

I though vehicle "safety" compliance was what CTire was supposed to be doing..... They are the vehicle chassis experts... no? ???
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:48:23 AM by Alfa38User »
Stu
Montréal, Canada 🍁
Snowbird, Naples Florida
Alfa Gold 38 (2000) 5ver (parked!)

"Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advise!!!"

Hfx_Cdn

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     It has been a few years since we bought our coach in Florida.  We checked the website to ensure it was eligible to be imported, used a broker to assist with the paperwork at the border (ultimately a waste of money, about $200 in memory serves correctly, as the paperwork was not onerous), a trip to the Freightliner dealer for daylight running lights, and a $15/25 (can't remember the exact amount) Canadian Tire inspection to see if the Freightliner installed lights worked plus a look at the dash to make sure the speedo had both MPH & KPH, then onto the NS Motor Vehicle Dept, paid PST, and valid ownership that is no different from any other RV.
    It sure sounds like you are being jived.  My son has imported several cars/trucks and we have a friend that has imported dozens of cars, trucks, boats and RV's without any of the hassles that you are indicating. 

Ed 
Ed & Donna
Winter-Pinellas Park FL, Summer- Maritime Canada
2000 Coachmen Catalina 34' DP (owned 2004 to 2015)
2006 Jeep Liberty Toad

BCinTOR

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Hi Alfa38,

You may have to click "shore more" to see the comments/discussion text below the video.  It's not contained in the actual video itself.  You should see "All Comments (123)" below the video then scroll down a bit.

Definitely agree that much of the "facts" come from the Hitch House website that's not biased at all.  ;)

The Canadian Tire inspection is basic covering the points mentioned by Hfx_CDN in his post.  For me it was free.  I had to get a separate truck shop give me the MTO safety certificate just like when purchasing any used vehicle.

From all the research I've done the only "additional costs" after completing the import process are dealer created and not required by any agency or government.  The Canadian RV Association (CRVA) states that its members manufacturer for Canada to CSA Z-240 or RVIA NFPA-1192: http://www.crva.ca/rv-manufacturers/

The brakes are hydraulic on the Serrano 34M like my 30.1 so no special license is required to drive it.  Spec sheet: http://thormotorcoach.com/media/documents/2012_Serrano_Class_A_RV_Literature_12_11.pdf

I viewed the video but did not note any comment about anyone being liable for anything for the life of the vehicle in the video. DiMartini has a very similar video but with no comments, just music. I can believe  "additional costs",  but liability? For what?? The liability statement seems to come from the Hitching Post dealership's "fact" sheet. This 'fact sheet' seems to contain a lot of very questionable statements with some of those 'facts' only applying to Ontario.... Can you say "hidden agenda" or "biased opinion"??

Off Topic but...
Does this unit have air brakes and air suspension? I doubt it since there is no mention anywhere and that should be a big selling point!! (I could not find the info anywhere and was wondering about the standard Ontario drivers license statement in the Bella Vista video...)

I though vehicle "safety" compliance was what CTire was supposed to be doing..... They are the vehicle chassis experts... no? ???
2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd

Hi BCinTO

I agree, there are definite problems in the Canadian RV industry when we can drive a few hours and save so much (and we are being treated as well by the dealer there as we would here).  Why are we being told so many things that are simply not true just to stop us from saving money?  Wouldn't it just be easier to bring the prices down in Canada?  After all, the dollar is close to parity, import/shipping costs are less than $1,500 from Indiana etc.  From my experience working at an RV dealership a few years back there are NO huge extra costs for Canadian dealers.  Back then it was simply the fact that the US dollar was worth 30% more than ours, so what it is now?

The following is a collection of thoughts based on fact and personal experience and is just a sampling of memos from my experience with cross border RV shopping/importing an RV into Canada and dealing with some of the dealers in Canada.  Read it, digest it and draw your own conclusions.  My reason for contributing is partly out of frustration and to hopefully educate the Canadian RV purchaser on their options.  Also, not all dealers are the same (in any country), so hopefully with the facts set straight and this information out for all to see, the cream will rise to the top and there will be no need to cross border shop for your RV.

"Some Canadians have purchased State side to learn that the Coach cost more once they had to have the certifications done. Also, they need to know that they would hold the liability for life on the coach when they import it if there is ever a problem."
 
I have been reading and hearing these types of explanations and tactics from a number of Canadian RV dealers for a few years now (and yes it sure looks and sounds like a tactic to get more business), mostly since the Canadian dollar approached parity with its US counterpart.  First, let me say that most, if not all, are false.
 
In my experience over the past 5 years of purchasing and importing RVs from the USA there has not been one dealer in Canada that was willing to come close to the price we bought for in the states. Each person must be comfortable with their purchase and complete their own due diligence though and I can only share my experience based on the facts of each particular event.  The last gas motorized RV we imported (2013 THOR ACE 29.1) was actually an overall $24,000 savings... but even if it wasn't, even $2,000 to me is a lot of money that we could use for family camping.  Last week we brought back a travel trailer for my inlaws and saved approx $4,000 and 3 years ago on my brother's 5th wheel, over $9,000 in savings... and there are many more.
 
And what is this statement -- "Also, they (meaning the RV customer who buys from USA) need to know that they would hold the liability for life on the coach when they import it if there is ever a problem"
 
So, on the flipside that would mean that when I buy my next RV from a Canadian dealer, because they are the Broker Of Record on it that they are responsible (no matter what my warranty says) for my RV for it's entire life?  Well that is good information...NOT!  I have spoken with both the CBSA (Canadian Customs & Border Services Agency, who incidentally are not concerned with the warranty on your RV) and the RIV and this is simply not true.  If an RV is imported into Canada legally under the RIV program you are NOT responsible/liable for it for the life of the coach, the onus is always on the manufacturers warranty first and foremost, and once that is run out you are on your own.  Of course in the case of a particular component malfunction the individual part/component manufacturer may have recalls or be responsible if it is proven that are product deficiencies or inherent defects with that component.

And I love when someone I know goes to buy an RV in the states and the dealer in Canada says, "well no dealer in Canada will service it for you!"  Isn't that a nice way to appraoch competition in your business environment and try to earn the business of a potential customer.  Why not say, "let's sit down and talk more about this as I know there is a way we can earn your business and give you a price that will help you buy local"

... and I am sorry, but when the Canadian dealer says to me "well price isn't everything" I have to remind them that it is almost everything.  If I can buy the same product for several thousand less without having to have to haggle the heck out of the deal, and offer up my first born, then I will.  After all, I am NOT taking the salesman or dealer home, I am taking my new RV and my family home, and for me, well since I don't have an extra $24K in the dresser drawer, I can take my family on a LOT of camping trips for that kind of money!  So, while proft is GREAT in business, unreasonable profit is NOT ok with me!

GIB

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We purchased our MONTANA in Rochester NY. We ordered it new. We paid $435.00 for CSA. That is for differences in Canadian Standards on the Propane, the Plumbing and the Electrical wiring. The ironic part was when I installed the second AC  unit the way the prewired box was installed wouldn't fly here. The other joke was the two axles that bent had a CSA stamped on them. My personal thought is ULC rating is good enough for me. After all we are .007 % of your population.
As for the RIV at Canadian Tire it was $300.00 in 2010. They checked to see that the tailight lenses had built in reflectors. They checked that the tires on the trailer were the same as the side sticker.
By the time we paid the taxes at the Border I'm not sure we gained enough to talk about.
The local dealers salesman turned me right off when he told me the truck should have enough brakes to stop everything. That was his response to asking for Disc Brakes option which Keystone doesn't offer.
I don't think that was such a bad question as I found out immediately that the 2 x 12 electric brakes will not properly stop a 15,500 lb. trailer.
In our case Rochester is 1 1/2 hour drive after you cross the border in the direction I never go. There are no answers to some things other than doing what you feel is right for you.

That is amazingly inaccurate info they gave you about the brakes. 

This past spring a dealer in southern Ontario sold some folks with a Mercedes SUV (short wheelbase and MAX 6,500lb towing capacity when equipped with the tow pkg, which this one wasn't) a 29ft travel trailer that weighed in at approx 6,000lbs dry...unbelievable.  Talk about knowingly putting people at risk just to make a sale.... sure it will tow fine, until you get yourself into heavy winds or a situation that requires a swerve etc.

Today, given the most recent legislation and rules with regards to importing under the RIV program, it is actually even more streamlined.  The fee is approx $214, and they have taken away the list of vehicles importable and made it more like a list of those that are NOT importable under the program.  Also, as the links posted by BCinTOR show, they have made it so the RVIA manufacturing standards and label affixed to the RV make it importable and legal for use in Canada without making any further modifications unless instructed to under the program.

BCinTOR

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Thanks Chris and GIB

Bella Vista RV Centre yesterday responded to some of the comments posted on their YouTube video on the topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMU0y0Qjoak

GIB confirms what I've read elsewhere that buyers are paying extra for the CSA stamp.  This is unnecessary according to the Highway Traffic Act and MTO because both specifically state that the RVIA certification is valid for RV's.

2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd

BCinTOR

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Thank you to Chris for helping discuss this topic with Bella Vista RV Centre Inc on their Youtube video that's pretty popular since it has received over half a million views.  I'm pasting the full discussion here since it could get deleted from the Youtube video and it's harder to follow the full conversation there.  Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMU0y0Qjoak

yamahonkawazuki3 weeks ago in reply to Langtry613
I do like prevost too. ( thought about selling the home lol. tbh I prefer a pusher, not a front engine. but fwiw, this is still nice. Canadian buyers can buy these stateside and have imported. granted not csc certified, but still can be done. I know folks that have.

Bella Vista RV Centre Inc 3 weeks ago in reply to yamahonkawazuki
Some Canadians have purchased State side to learn that the Coach cost more once they had to have the certifications done. Also, they need to know that they would hold the liability for life on the coach when they import it if there is ever a problem.

Blair Collins 6 days ago
Bella Vista RV, please provide a government source to back up your statement that the importer is liable for the life of the coach.  I've heard this unsubstantiated statement before to scare people away from buying for less stateside.

Bella Vista RV Centre Inc 5 days ago
You can check with RIV (registrar of Imported vehicles) as well as Canada Customs and Border services, as you are Importer of Record.  As for buying less stateside, our pricing has been equal to or less than the US dealers, and our units are built to CSA standards.  We do not make statements to scare customers, we wish to educate them.
Customer service is important to us.
If you are considering a purchase and wish to discuss the benefits of buying in Canada I would be happy to speak with you by phone or in person.

Blair Collins 4 days ago
+Bella Vista RV Centre Inc I definitely support buying locally if the pricing is competitive and for the advantages of local service.  CSA or RVIA certifications are valid in Ontario for Motorhomes and RV's.  A Google Search such as 'vehicle (liability OR liable) "Importer of Record" site:cbsa-asfc.gc.ca' of the CBSA and RIV websites produces nothing indicating the importer is liable for the life of the unit.  The importer is only responsible for paying the relevant costs at the time of import.  I imported a new Thor Motorhome 2 summers ago. Happy to speak in the future for my next purchase as I'm only in my 40's.

Chris George-Pick 2 days ago
 "Some Canadians have purchased State side to learn that the Coach cost more once they had to have the certifications done. Also, they need to know that they would hold the liability for life on the coach when they import it if there is ever a problem."

I have been reading and hearing these types of explanations and tactics from a number of Canadian RV dealers for a few years now (and yes it sure looks and sounds like a tactic to get more business), mostly since the Canadian dollar approached parity with its US counterpart.  First, let me say that most, if not all, are false.

In my experience over the past 5 years of purchasing and importing RVs from the USA there has not been one dealer in Canada that was willing to come close to the price we bought from in the states. Each person must be comfortable with their purchase and complete their own due dilligence though and I can only share my experience based on fact.  The last gas motorized RV we imported was actually an overall $24,000 savings... but even if it wasn't, even $2,000 to me that is a lot of money that we could use for family camping.  My inlaws travel trailer imported just last week was a $4,000 savings.  My brother's 5th wheel 3 yeras ago $9,000 in savings... and that is just a few examples from the the real world.

And what is this statement -- "Also, they (meaning the RV customer who buys from USA) need to know that they would hold the liability for life on the coach when they import it if there is ever a problem".

So, on the flipside that would mean that when I buy my next RV from a Canadian dealer, because they are the Broker Of Record on it, that they are responsible (no matter what my warranty says) for my RV for it's entire life?  Well that is good information...probably not!  I have spoken with both the CBSA (Canadian Customs & Border Services Agency, who incidentally are not concerned with the warranty or liability on your RV) and the RIV, and this is simply not true.  If an RV is imported into Canada legallly under the RIV program you ar NOT responsible/liable for it for the life of the coach, the onus is always on the manufcaturers warranty first and foremost, and once that is run out you are on your own.  Of course in the case of a particlar component malfucntion the idividual part/component manufacturer may have recalls or be responsible if it is proven that are product deficiencies or inherent defects with that component.

Bella Vista RV Centre Inc 2 days ago
Hello, What I was referring to is not warranty related, Canada Customs and RIV are only concerned with Transport Canada which is Federally regulated.  When importing a vehicle there are Provincial codes which must be taken into account and are not required to be met before importing the vehicle, however are required by the province that the vehicle is to be registered in.  I hopes this helps in the clarification.
Have a good day.

Blair Collins 2 days ago
+Bella Vista RV Centre Inc Please provide links to the specific provincial codes you mention that imported vehicles have to comply with.  Ontario Highway Traffic Act says CSA or RVIA: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_940340_e.htm
MTO is the same:  http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/frequently-asked-questions.shtml

Chris George-Pick1 day ago
"Liable for the life of the coach", when it is imported legally under the RIV program, is absolutely untrue.  If what you say is true than every dealer who imports an RV would also be "liable" for the RV for the life of it. This is simply not true. Please read the legislation and rules regarding importing an RV from the United States under the RIV program.  And in speaking with Canada Customs (many times) and reviewing all of the documents that apply to the RIV program they (Canada Customs) have no interest whatsoever in liability for an RV after the fact but rather only that when importing an RV from the USA that it is done so according to the rules.

Further, the word liability (responsibility) carries a lot of unknowns and what ifs. Regardless of any type of warranty (so let's separate warranty from liability) saying that an importer is liable for an RV for it's life implies a lot of things.  Provided the imported RV carries the RVIA decal (and as such was manufactured to those standards) and was imported legally under the RIV program, the manufacturer is ALWAYS responsible or liable for the products that they make, and any defective components in the RV that cause a loss would be first and foremost the manufacturers responsibility.  If there was a defect in a component that caused third part damage, you can bet that insurers would vigorously pursue the manufacturer of both the RV and component involved, and NOT the importer of the RV who did so legally under the RIV program.  As a licensed Insurance Adjuster in the Province of Ontario I investigated numerous automotive and property damage liability claims.

Bella Vista RV Centre Inc 1 day ago
RIV is only looking after Federal codes, so consumers must also be aware of the provincial codes they must meet, the RVIA certification does not completely comply with Ontario standards, however will be good enough for importation purposes to allow a unit into the country. RIV recommends, but does not force a consumer to meet provincial codes.  Below is a notification that was sent out to all Ontario dealers which will help provide some clarification.

Have a good Day


Recreation Vehicle Certification in Ontario
 
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
November 3, 2011 Update
 
RV Dealers in Ontario should know and understand the certification requirements in Ontario with regard to the importation of all types of RVs.
 
In this Province there are 2 acceptable certification codes:
Canadian Standards Association – CSA Z240 Code
Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) – NFPA 1192 Code
 
However, both these codes are subject to the CSA Standards for Electrical and Propane (LPG).  These are covered by CSA C22.1-09 Ontario Electrical Safety Code with label and CAN/CSA B149.2-05 Code Series as well as CAN/CSA B149.1-05 Code Series for Propane Storage, Handling and Installation.  This applies to any person, company or Industry importing RVs into this Province.
 
The RVIA codes do not comply with the Standards Council of Canada therefore; electrical inspections must be performed by an Electrical Safety Inspector and have applied an orange ESA sticker on the electric panel or inside the door.  Propane inspections must be performed by a certified RV-1 TSSA (Technical Standards & Safety Authority) Propane Technician and be tagged appropriately.  (Usually on one of the appliances)  This is the law.
 
Recreation Vehicle Dealers are advised that any type of repair or warranty work should not be performed until such time as these inspections are performed.  There is a potential liability involved here.
 
Likewise, RVs not up to code should not be taken in on trade or sold without an ESA or LPG inspection.
 
For further information and clarification please refer to these websites:
 
Canadian Standards Association (CSA) www.csa.ca
Electrical Safety Authority (ESA) www.esasafe.com
Technical Standards & Safety Authority (TSSA) www.tssa.org
 
Thank you,
 
Larry Boyd
Executive Vice President
Ontario Recreation Vehicle Dealers Association

Blair Collins 1 day ago
+Bella Vista RV Centre Inc This is the same letter from Larry Boyd that is posted on another Ontario dealer website.  Note that the source is the ORVDA who are not a government agency and represent dealers, not consumers.
Please provide a documented government source.  What provincial codes are there beyond MTO and the Highway Traffic Act which both state either RVIA or CSA is accepted? http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/recreational-vehicles/frequently-asked-questions.shtml  The Ontario Highway Traffic Act was changed in 2011 to specifically accept either CSA or RVIA.
 The CRVA state either RVIA or CSA for RV's manufactured to be sold in Canada: http://www.crva.ca/rv-manufacturers/
Further, QAI is the "Standards Council of Canada" approved organization that determines what RV's are authorized for import under the RIV program without additional inspection: http://qai.org/category/services/page/2/
QAI is the exact same organization that provides the CSA stickers and approvals to US RV manufacturers like Thor.
Note item 11 which states: "When Transport Canada approves the QAI application on behalf of the manufacturer–that the manufacturer’s vehicles are compliant with Canadian standards, the manufacturer appears under QAI’s  Pre-Clearance list of manufacturers"
Further, the CSA recognizes that the differences from RVIA are minor and harmonization of the two codes into one for all of North America is in progress: http://www.rvia.org/?ESID=preleases&PRID=431&SR=141

Bella Vista RV Centre Inc 1 day ago
+Blair Collins Hello Blair,  The government source you are looking for is in the letter I posted, it outlines that the RVIA code is accepted for importation however does not meet all provincial requirements, and the letter goes on to explain why.  Also the links to the government agencies are at the bottom of the letter and Larry outlines what part of the codes are affected.
Yes, the ORVDA represents dealers however they also work for the interest and benefit of the consumer, and work to better the industry for the consumers benefit, by promoting a strong industry and reputable dealers that work to protect consumers.
If these references are not enough for you then I am sorry, and each consumer must be comfortable with their individual decisions.  My dealership does not try to scare consumers, we try to educate them and ensure they are looked after.   As a dealer we are held to the above standards which are also applicable to consumers.
Thank you for your responses and I wish you all the best.

Blair Collins 21 hours ago (edited)
+Bella Vista RV Centre Inc Larry from ORVDA is not a government source and his salary is funded by dealers who are the only members. His letter cites specific parts of the code but this doesn't state that RVIA isn't accepted also.  There is no text on the CSA, ESA, and TSSA websites you've listed saying that RVIA NFPA 1192 is not accepted.  Larry's statements contradict MTO, QAI (who is certified by the CSA), and the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.  The Google Search command "site:csagroup.org RVIA" comes up with nothing.  Searches of the ESA and TSSA websites have nothing relevant either.
I would be happy to spend my money for service at your dealership if you'll waive the hefty costs of ESA and TSSA certifications that are not required by any law.
My goal is to ask the Thor dealers to stop enforcing unnecessary fees on RV consumers for "bringing imported units to code" when MTO and insurance companies are happy with the RVIA certifications in Ontario for safety and compliance.
You are the only Thor dealer in Ontario that has taken the time to discuss this.  I thank you for that.


Chris George-Pick 21 hours ago
From a customer standpoint, in my opinion (which is a similar context to how that letter was written, as "an opinion") I think there may be a number things that can inspire a letter like this, not the least of which is having a vested interest in creating more sales of Canadian RV's (which is OK, that is the essence of your business). But it also tends to pass on information/ammunition to dealers to then pass on to potential cross border shoppers...but incorrectly.

Please see and review the following (they are the codes quoted in Larry's letter):

"The Canadian Electrical Code, CE code, or CSA C22.1 "
"The Canadian Electrical Code does not apply to vehicles, systems operated by an electrical or communications utility, railway systems, aircraft or ships; since these installations are already regulated by separate documents."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Electrical_Code


CAN/CSA-B149.1-05 doesn't not apply to RV or mobile homes unless made permanent:

"4.8.1 The installation of gas-burning appliances and supply piping in mobile homes shall be in accordance with CAN/CSA-Z240.4.1.
4.8.2 When a vehicle ceases to be used as a mobile home or recreational vehicle and is placed at a location in a permanent fixed manner, the system shall comply with all applicable requirements of this Code."
Source: http://www.csagroup.org/documents/codes-and-standards/supplements/B149_1S1_EN.pdf

I think as an entire industry in Canada that RV dealers need to give a more ROUNDED and COMPLETE education to consumers as to what "you" are protecting them against with regards to importing their RV from the United States. In reviewing the actual codes (above) there is no need for an importer to do these items and therefore no reason for a consumer to be told they must do it, and then charged for the work. More so, how can they be refused service by a factory authorized dealer based on things that are not fact?  If they are given the entire picture and then choose to have the propane test and ESA inspection completed then so be it.

The other item that strikes me as being a problem for the dealer (mostly because it works to prevent or even scare dealers into removing a profit centre for them -- ie: warranty service on RIV imported RV's and service on used RIV imported RV's) is that the letter indicates at the end that this might pose a potential liability situation... again, in reading the codes properly AND in speaking with the ESA without biased, there is no possible way that there is potential of liability for servicing an RVIA certified RV that has been properly imported over and above the servicing of any RV in Canada. 

Blair Collins 1 minute ago
Thanks Chris.  The CSA codes quoted in Larry's letter don't appear to be relevant to recreational vehicles at all.
2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd

BCinTOR

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    • Interlockit.com
One more item I noticed is that the Toronto International RV Show that I've attended in the past never has any USA dealers exhibiting yet many are located closer to Toronto than some dealers attending from Ontario.

http://www.torontointernationalrvshow.ca/exhibitorsbrands/

The show is run by ORVDA which explains it.

One of the dealers told me non CSA approved RV's aren't allowed in the RV shows.  Seems like a rather convenient way to exclude more competitive pricing from the U.S. from showing up.

When I go to any other show like for skiing or to the Toronto International Boat Show the American vendors are well represented.
2018 THOR Challenger 37TB
Toronto (Mississauga), Ontario
Canada
Computer Nerd


Hfx_Cdn

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     It has been over 2 1/2 years since the previous post, and with a a 35 to 40 percent surcharge between the US and Cdn dollar, I'm sure there has been far less interest in importing RV's.

Ed
Ed & Donna
Winter-Pinellas Park FL, Summer- Maritime Canada
2000 Coachmen Catalina 34' DP (owned 2004 to 2015)
2006 Jeep Liberty Toad

 

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