Trying to select toad brakes

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
It's here Ron. The photo I put up for Smoky was taken pre-latex finger.
 

Attachments

  • glove_finger.jpg
    glove_finger.jpg
    7.5 KB · Views: 33
Latex Finger?

BTW I hope everyone realizes the Brakemaster is very similar to the M&G. It runs off the coach air.  The Brake Pro, up until Ron, has been the only one I have heard negative comments about.  Brake Pro, I think , works more like Brake Buddy.

Both are Roadmaster products.  Just wanted to be sure it was Brake Pro and not Brakemaster, that Ron has heard the negatives on.  The concept of Brakemaster is identical to M&G, tap coach air, add air cilinder to toad.  Not much that can go wrong I suspect.

The one thing I don't like about Brakemaster is that the Remco dealer in Annapolis is telling me it is an 11 hour install.  Roadmaster says 5 to 6 hours.  I suspect they are padding it.  It would be nice to have Remco do the whole thing at one sitting.  But now I am leaning towards driving brakeless to Ohio and having M&G add the brake. 

And yes I will ask Remco to change their estimate to switch from Sterling to the all terrain falcon.
 
Smoky said:
BTW I hope everyone realizes the Brakemaster is very similar to the M&G. It runs off the coach air.  The Brake Pro, up until Ron, has been the only one I have heard negative comments about.  Brake Pro, I think , works more like Brake Buddy.

The one thing I don't like about Brakemaster is that the Remco dealer in Annapolis is telling me it is an 11 hour install.  Roadmaster says 5 to 6 hours.  I suspect they are padding it.  It would be nice to have Remco do the whole thing at one sitting.  But now I am leaning towards driving brakeless to Ohio and having M&G add the brake. 

And yes I will ask Remco to change their estimate to switch from Sterling to the all terrain falcon.

It may be similar but that doesn't mean it is the same.

Yeah it's nice to have the whole job done at one time and place. But why settle for second best when you are going to keep the coach for so long ??? The time estimate seems very high, specially compared to M&G.

You haven't commented on your chassis yet. Is is a Spartan and will you be looking for the Spartan brake connection kit?
 
I have not decided for second best yet Bernie.  So much to digest.

Yes my coach has the Spartan Mountain Air chassis with IFS.  The IFS was a major factor in my final decision to go with Newmar. 
 
Smoky said:
Yes my coach has the Spartan Mountain Air chassis with IFS.  The IFS was a major factor in my final decision to go with Newmar. 

Good, now have you checked out the brake connect kit from Spartan?

 
Bernie:

I meant Mountain Master not Mountain Air.

I have been looking on both the Spartan and the MG web sites and cant find the kit.  I put a call into Newmar also, as I noticed Monaco installs an air outlet and was wondering if Newmar did this as well.
 
Smoky said:
I have been looking on both the Spartan and the MG web sites and cant find the kit.  I put a call into Newmar also, as I noticed Monaco installs an air outlet and was wondering if Newmar did this as well.

Call Spartan Tech Support @ 800-543-4277 and check with them. I am curious about it because I would like to see an article about it in the Spartan Chassis Club newsletter ;)  I would expect it to make a self installation a lot easier as well.
 
Smokey,  on the discussion of M & G vs.the Brakemaster, what an I missing here? When comparing the M& G to the brakemaster, the only thing I see that they have in common is the air hose connection to the coach. Once the M & G air cylinder is installed on the brake master cylinder  you never touch it again except for connecting the air hose from the coach to the toad.  The Roadmaster Brakemaster uses an air cylinder to push on the brake pedal, so you have to install it on every time you use it (and remove it when you want to use the toad).
 
After re-looking at Roadmaster's web site, I have to agree with Caltex. Since you have to physically attach the Brakemaster air cylinder to to the toad's brake pedal every time you want to use it, I see no significant advantage over using a Brake Buddy.
 
Smoky said:
The dealer is minimizing toad brakes saying that the pusher braking will overwhelm the toad and make toad braking non critical.  The dealer says they can install a much less expensive Brake Buddy that uses inertia braking.  What say?

Smoky,

I recommend that you get the M&G even if you have to pull the toad across the US without a toad brake to find an M&G installer.

Phil
 
You're right Caltex!  Tonight I downloaded the manual from the web site and I plainly see that clamp on the pedal.  No way I am going with that.  M&G it is!
 
Smokey; We have been using the US GEAR brake system on our 2003 Honda CRV and we are pleased with the unit, we moved our hook ups on to the top of our rear bumper and that has saved on my knuckles, the installation is clean and we have just one electrical umbilical cord, it has a super break away feature which I like when disconnecting, the CRV brakes are set, no more rolling of the towed vehicle. This is how we feel about the US GEAR brake system. Gene and Audrey, them Buffalo folks from Wyoming. 2001 Itasca Suncruiser,8.1L,Allison Tranny.? Yes WE are HAPPY.
 
Smoky said:
I know there are many threads about toad brake systems here and on the ?other? forum and I will be re-reading them.

But I would like a sanity check on where I am currently at.

I am having Remco in Annapolis ?work up? an estimate for me.  They are recommending the ?roadmaster? towing system,  (Sterling model) and for toad brakes the Roadmaster ?Brakemaster?.  I believe this system taps into the pusher air or hydraulic brake system and gives true proportional braking with full meter indication in the cab.

I don?t know if the Newmar Kountry Star has airbrakes (well the parking brake is air but not sure about the driving brakes) or hydraulic brakes, but the Brakemaster is supposed to tap in to one or the other pusher system.  I am waiting to hear from Newmar on which type and whether this would void warranty.

Does this sound like a good way to go?

The dealer is minimizing toad brakes saying that the pusher braking will overwhelm the toad and make toad braking non critical.  The dealer says they can install a much less expensive Brake Buddy that uses inertia braking.  What say?

I too like the M&G  even if the coach does not have air brakes (and if the parking brake is air, I'd be willing to bet the main brakes are too, but I could be wrong, it would be a bet) 

I'm not convinced on the intertial brake systems. Assorted reasons I don't really like them  Here is what I found

1: Salesmen are paid to sell their company's products (or the store's products) so if you are at a REMCO company store they will always suggest REMCO products 1st, and then other proucts the store carries (Lower commission) ALWAYS, no exceptions

Moral 1: Don't listen to them

2: M&G, from what I've read in the other forum and other places is #1 with a brake pad, however it won't fit on my Lumina APV. Advantages of this air operated system are 1: Totally transparent to the operator of the toad when it's independent. There is NOTHING in the cockpit, nothing at all, it's all "under the hood" Very well designed system. It is also a proprotional system operated as additional brakes on the coach's main brake system.  Very good

Brake Master and Brake Buddy have been reviewed here, Brake Master I saw lots of complaints, Brake buddy less so but these are intertial systems, they sense that you are slowing down and apply the brakes.. I'd rather they sensed I wished to slow down (Had pressed the pedal) this they can not do, In addition you got the pedal pusher to pull out of the way when you want to drive independent and forget to re-install when you tow

Brake Pro... Air, like the M&G, but a pedal pusher like the Brake Buddy and Brake Master.  This is a porportional system that addresses the first concern I have in the above but being a pedal pusher it still has "junk" to move when you want to go independent and forget to replace when you tow.

Unified Gear's brake system http://www.usgear.com/unified_tow_brake.htm

This is what I"m likely to go with,,, It's a pedal PULLER, not pusher, so though it works the brake pedal just like Brake Buddy/Master/Pro it PULLS not Pushes.  This does mean a bit of additional hardware that can fail but it also means there is nothing in the way when you go independent and nothing to forget when you return to towed status

No pins to loose, no boxes to get misplaced, nothing, just hook and go.

It's an electric system, works with all tow vehicles equiped with an electric brake controller, Unified Gear is a sales partner with WorkHorse (Who is the chassis supplier on the Motor Home I'm buying)

I may still go with the brake pro if the Damon is air braked though
 
John

You have Brakemaster and Brakepro mixed up. The BrakePro does not run off coach air - it has its own compressor in a box and plugs into a 12V outlet on the toad, similar to the BrakeBuddy.
 
Smokey,

I purchased the M & G system direct fromhe manufacturer. Cost  $ 535.00  + $35.00 for installation kit and $ 8.90 for freight. Total  $578.90.
This does not include the "Break away system" . I may purchase this later whem the laws tells me to do so. In the mean time I will just look forward and not backwards so don't drive behind me.
I installed the system myself on the Jeep Gr. C.  It took me approx. 2 hours.
I highly recommend the system. Go for it if it fits on the Taurus.

chris
 
Just downloaded and read the Roadmaster Brake Pro Installation/Operation manual. To put it bluntly, there are way too many cautions, warnings, important notes and installation and use issues which would make me run, not walk, away from it.

Major concerns:
1) Unit uses power from toad and compressor will run about every 10 minutes. They recommend recharging toad after 6 hours driving. I've got better things to do than let my braking unit determine when and where I stop.

2) (and this one really scares me!) The unit will go into sleep mode if the battery voltage gets too low, and will not activate brakes. Their reasoning is that this will leave enough power to start the car for charging the battery. Sorry, but I'd want it to suck every last bit of energy from my battery to stop me; I'll worry about starting the car AFTER I get to the bottom of the mountain. That's what jumper cables are for! And yes, I know there's an emergency override.

3) Way too many things you (may) have to do when installing/removing for each use - Floor mats, seat positioning, bleeding system, foot/cylinder extensions.

4) Too many issues with adjustments either preventing braking when necessary or causing braking when unnecessary, such as bumps in the road or rough roads - and you have to stop to change them.

5) It's an inertial system and I'll paraphrase here: If the unit senses a slowdown (negative change of inertia) of the coach, it assumes you want to brake, so it applies the brakes on the toad. No change; no braking. Fine while cruising or at a stop sign or during normal braking, but what happens if your on a steep downhill grade and your coach brakes start to fade or are maxed out? IMHO this would appear to the system like I had quit braking the coach and would release the toad brakes too. Not good. 

M&G for me! 
 
Karl

Our experience with the BrakePro wasn't very good at all. First off, I had to make a plinth (aka false floor) out of plywood for the BP to be able to sit on in front of the Burb's driver seat. Then came what should have been the first clue - the BP wanted to repeatedly pump the brakes. Next clue - my neighbor rang the door bell and asked why the brake lights on the Burb were continuously on while parked in our driveway. Re-adjusted everything.

Then, when we took off on our trip, the dash-mounted monitor kept telling me the Burb brakes were coming on when I didn't need/want them on. The frequencey of toad brakes being applied kept increasing. Next available truck stop I pulled over and checked things out. The battery on the Burb was dead. Fired up the generator on the coach and hooked up a 12V charger to bring the toad battery up.

Took off again and had a repeat performance. I figured out that, in addition to draining the battery, the BrakePro was voltage sensitive and, as the battery voltage dropped, it started pumping the brakes feversihly. This in turn dragged the battery down further and faster.

A call to Roadmaster's tech support received the dumbest response: "That's because GM installs wires in their cars that are too small". The suggestion was that the 20A outlet on the Burb was being fed with wires too small to carry 20A.

I decided to run a heavy cord from the coach engine batteries to the batteries on the toad, thinking the coach alternator would keep the toad battery charged. Wrong!

We finally towed the Burb several hundred miles with the engine running, as that was the only way I could keep the battery from going dead and the BP from repeatedly pumping the brakes.

After having the M&G installed, next stop was Camping World to return the BrakePro, and I had over $400 extra in my pocket, and a hassle-free braking system.
 
We have the Blue Ox Apollo toad brake and it just works.  It will apply the toad brakes when necessary, and won't if not needed.  The only time the compressor runs is if the brakes have been applied and air pressure needs to be restored.  Takes about 5 minutes to install when travelling and less to remove when we park.  It can be moved to a new vehicle with minimal work, just the breakaway and monitor wires have to be redone.

And it comes with all the Blue Ox support that, as far as I am concerned, is unequaled in the RV industry.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
131,753
Posts
1,384,361
Members
137,524
Latest member
freetoroam
Back
Top Bottom