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Author Topic: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart  (Read 17398 times)

Wizard46

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2014, 12:26:02 PM »
I talked to my AC guy this morning, when I said 2 stage with separate propane heat heat, he started laughing and said if I could come up with something that would work, be sure to apply for a patent

 ;D ;D ;D
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2014, 03:37:11 PM »
Actually it's two stage cooling and one stage heat (heat pump) with auxiliary (W connection) heat, nothing weird or fancy.  The Si should work with the config, Duner got the heat pump to work with another aftermarket thermostat, so I'm hoping I can with the Si.
--John
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Wizard46

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2014, 06:29:54 PM »
Was looking through the unit manual today and found two thermostats shown. The one I have is the 6535-3451.
The manual shows another 6335-3351.
Mine has the small slider on the right for setting the temp, the other seems to have two pushbuttons to raise or lower the setpoint. It looks like what I would like to have. Do any of you guys have that model and know if it would be a direct replacement for mine. My wife just don't like the slider claiming she can never seem to get it to the temp setting she wants.
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2014, 08:11:08 AM »
Go to this page on the RVP website and enter thermostat in the search box.  If you have the temperature adjustment slider (analog) model, you should be able to replace it with a Coleman Mach digital version. Note that some of the thermostat models were design specifically for Winnebago.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:14:05 AM by John Canfield »
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Wizard46

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2014, 07:23:00 AM »
Well after conversations with Eric Botts at RVP Support, I was advised that the 6536A3351 was an almost exact swap. BTW the 6535A3351 is the same in Black.

I ordered one yesterday from Amazon, to be shipped from Tweety's, for $116.99. I'll let everyone know hoe the installation goes.
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2014, 02:54:29 PM »
Whoo-hoo, broke the code!

I could write a novella about the hoops I've jumped through trying to get the Ecobee Si working (and then my touch screen Honeywell I displaced from the stick house) with the RVP heat pump.  I finally hooked up the Coleman Mach thermostat to 12V and then made an operational matrix (Duner calls it a truth table) - I documented what leads go high (or read +12V) in each mode (off, cool, electric heat, gas heat.)

It was a configuration issue because I assumed the thermostats should be configured as a heat pump, after all the unit is a heat pump.  Well, it is a heat pump with gas backup but that's not how the thermostat interfaces with the heat pump control board.  I'll be documenting this thoroughly later but all I needed to do was to configure the Si as two stage cooling and two stage heat and NOT as a heat pump.  To put the heat pump into electric heat mode, it just wants to see +12v on W and W2 and it doesn't want to see 12V on Y1 and Y2.  Gas heat mode is +12V on W2, W1 is off.  Cooling mode is +12V to Y1 (first stage cooling) and then Y2 (if second stage is called.)

I've got more testing and tweaking to do, but I think it's going to work out quite well.  A nice feature of the Si thermostat is you decide when second stage heat (gas) is going to kick in - you set the temperature delta (difference) of set vs. actual.  With the Coleman Mach, the temperature delta is fixed at 5 degrees, in other words the gas furnace won't kick in until the room temperature is 5 degrees below set temperature.  I'll probably make this 3 degrees.  Or you can configure the second stage to start x minutes after stage 1. << Edit - I don't think that's possible.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 04:48:38 PM by John Canfield »
--John
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SVTotem

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2014, 09:53:24 PM »
How I do admire your patience and stick-with-it-ness, John.
Bill Burgner
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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2014, 07:52:03 AM »
Thanks Bill!  Hate to admit defeat on a tech project.
--John
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Mavarick

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2014, 07:41:47 PM »
Great job John, after reading some of your posts I really thought that brick wasn't going to fly! That Coleman is a pain and I will be looking forward to the conversion after you finish your write up.
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Wizard46

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2014, 07:19:00 AM »
John, just to let you know, I solved my problem. The 6536A3351 that I ordered turned out to be a direct plug-n-play. No wiring to change, worked great. Note the pantry made a great workbench to support the One-Place panel while making the changeover.

Now wife is happy with digital, maybe I'll get a browny point, but probably just another request. ;D
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NoMoreAZ

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2014, 07:47:18 AM »
Variation on a theme........
John, as you may know, in 2006 'Bago began installing 2 stage Suburban gas furnaces (SHD-2542) as the main furnace in the Vectra and Horizon. The Coleman Mach t-stat has 4 leads to control the gas furnace now instead of 3 leads, +12, -12, Hi gas out, Low gas out.

So your truth table will need to be modified by those of us who have these 2 stage gas furnaces. The differential between the set point and the room temp to start the hi gas stage (2nd gas burner ignites and blower goes faster) is the magic hard wired 5 degrees in the Coleman Mach.

Just thought I would throw some mud in the water!
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2014, 10:03:09 AM »
John, as you may know, in 2006 'Bago began installing 2 stage Suburban gas furnaces (SHD-2542) as the main furnace in the Vectra and Horizon. The Coleman Mach t-stat has 4 leads to control the gas furnace now instead of 3 leads, +12, -12, Hi gas out,..
So the basement RVP unit is only a cooling unit (not a heat pump) and gas is sole source of heat in the '06 units?  If so, that doesn't sound like an issue - you have two stage cooling and two stage heating with gas low as heat stage 1 (W) and gas high as stage 2 (W2.)  The furnace control leads probably want to see 12V on the 12V leads all the time and then W and W2 go high as called by the thermostat.

Wouldn't take long to figure that one out.
--John
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John Hilley

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2014, 10:53:43 AM »
It is also available as 6535-3442 in black to match the other components of the One Place

Coleman 6535-3442 Black 2 Stage heat Pump Thermostat
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321311467116?lpid=82
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NoMoreAZ

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2014, 08:12:20 AM »
So the basement RVP unit is only a cooling unit (not a heat pump) and gas is sole source of heat in the '06 units?  If so, that doesn't sound like an issue - you have two stage cooling and two stage heating with gas low as heat stage 1 (W) and gas high as stage 2 (W2.)  The furnace control leads probably want to see 12V on the 12V leads all the time and then W and W2 go high as called by the thermostat.

Wouldn't take long to figure that one out.

No, same RVP unit. Does both heat and cool. Just the propane furnace is different, 2 stage instead of 1 stage. The t-stat in gas heat mode locks out the RVP unit, just like Emergency Heat setting in a stick house heat pump. When the propane furnace supplements the RVP unit, it acts like Aux Heat mode in a stick house heat pump. With the hard wired 5 degree difference between room temp and the set point, in supplement (AUX) heat mode, the gas furnace turns on in Hi mode if needed.
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2014, 07:05:07 PM »
No, same RVP unit. Does both heat and cool. Just the propane furnace is different, 2 stage instead of 1 stage...
So two stage cool and three stage heat, wow!  The Si thermostat can't handle three heat stages but you could probably just use high gas heat for the second stage.

Well then, I'm calling this project a success and I wrapped it all up and permanently installed the Si. I won't be completely 100% comfortable with it for a few months but all looks good and everything is working nominally  ;D.

As a little bonus, I rummaged around in my electronic junk box and found a blue LED and an appropriate resistor (about 1.2K) and wired it in series with 12V and the freeze switch (normally closed dry contacts) to indicate when the evaporator coil is NOT frozen, i.e., normal operation. I could have used a relay to light the LED when the NC contacts were open, but that was a little more involved - I'm into simple.

I'll be writing up this project in the next couple of weeks - I'll make a post when it's all documented.

--John
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Wizard46

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #45 on: February 19, 2014, 08:13:48 PM »
Looking good, keep up the good work, I'm still interested
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SargeW

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2014, 10:43:41 PM »
Great work John! Question, my Tiffin has two Coleman Mach A/C units and two separate controllers. Does Ecobbe make single unit controllers that would control each A/C and heat strip individually?
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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2014, 07:51:35 AM »
... Just the propane furnace is different, 2 stage instead of 1 stage. The t-stat in gas heat mode locks out the RVP unit, just like Emergency Heat setting in a stick house heat pump. When the propane furnace supplements the RVP unit, it acts like Aux Heat mode in a stick house heat pump. ..
Ah-ha, with the Smart touch screen model, you can control three heat stages.  Not sure if the Smart will power off 12V though, that would be a question for Ecobee.

Great work John! Question, my Tiffin has two Coleman Mach A/C units and two separate controllers. Does Ecobbe make single unit controllers that would control each A/C and heat strip individually?
Marty, I think you would need two Si's but you can group them together.
--John
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2014, 05:53:02 PM »
Okay - got the project documented and on our web site.
--John
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NoMoreAZ

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2014, 09:04:12 AM »
Ah-ha, with the Smart touch screen model, you can control three heat stages.  Not sure if the Smart will power off 12V though, that would be a question for Ecobee.

Thanks John. The Touch Screen model is a pricey little bugger!

Did you use your previous 12 VDC source for the Not-Cold as the source for the Ecobee, or is the refer location too far from your One Place panel? I'm not familiar with your floor plan. Since we now have the same model refer you have (Frigidaire Gallery 18.3 top freezer) we have the unused 12 VDC also. I taped ours back out of the way and labeled it. Our One Place is next to the refer, pocket door in between, but easy work around.
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2014, 09:40:30 AM »
Just got off the phone with an Ecobee marketing guy, they like my project so much they posted it on their Facebook page  :).  I'm trying to come up with a plan for them to seed another one or two Coleman-Mach to Ecobee swap-out projects; I'd like to have something available for the GNR.  Stay tuned...

Thanks John. The Touch Screen model is a pricey little bugger!
Yes, it is but it has more features than the Si.  I loved the idea of the touch screen but the Si was recommended for my application.  Not sure if the touch screen one would work, it's not clear to me that it will run off 12V.  I need to ask Ecobee out of curiosity and since I'll probably be answering questions from now on about the project (which is okay.)

Quote
Did you use your previous 12 VDC source for the Not-Cold as the source for the Ecobee, or is the refer location too far from your One Place panel?
The 12V source that powered the Coleman-Mach thermostat and controlled the RVP heat pump control board works fine to power the Si and to control the RVP heat pump.  In other words, all of the necessary wiring is right there at the back of the Coleman-Mach thermostat  :).  The old fridge wiring has nothing to do with the old or new thermostat.

We just had another robust cold front blow in here and from the convenience of our warm house I logged into my Ecobee user portal and looked at how the coach is making out with temperatures in the low 30s (we were in the 60s yesterday  ::) .)  Attached is a screen scrape of one of the reports - I can tell that our stage 2 heat (the gas furnace) had to kick in over the last few hours (stage 1 heat is light red, stage 2 heat is dark red), look at the vertical red lines on the bottom right.  All of the vertical gray lines are the blower - I have the thermostat programmed to circulate the air 20 minutes out of every hour.  No more walking out to the coach to see if heat and air conditioning is working okay. 8)
--John
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John Hilley

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2014, 10:40:18 AM »
Yes, it is but it has more features than the Si.  I loved the idea of the touch screen but the Si was recommended for my application.  Not sure if the touch screen one would work, it's not clear to me that it will run off 12V.  I need to ask Ecobee out of curiosity and since I'll probably be answering questions from now on about the project (which is okay.)

You could use an inexpensive DC to DC converter to run the Touch Screen Ecobee
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2014, 01:15:49 PM »
John - what's not clear to me is if the touch screen model requires 24VAC which would make it incapable of replacing the Coleman-Mach thermostat without jumping through some hoops.  You could power it from a small inverter/24 VAC transformer and then have the thermostat output leads operate 24VAC relays which then switch 12VDC to the various RVP heat pump control inputs.  Not a huge deal, but more complex than using the Si.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 01:17:28 PM by John Canfield »
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SargeW

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2014, 09:10:04 PM »
You rock John! Even the manufactures like your work!
Marty--
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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2014, 09:41:23 PM »
Thanks Marty, that was a bolt out of the blue discovering that Ecobee was interested in my project (other than my tech contact.)  I don't think they're interested in pursuing this application for a new market opportunity but they do like the extremely unique application of their product (the marketing guy confirmed that I'm the very first RV application of their product.)  I'm going to put in a feature request for firmware that would accommodate the RVP heat pump control peculiarities but I'm not holding my breath they will allocate programmer resources for this.

They are going to launch a web site feature called From the Hive in about a month which will basically be a user-to-user idea exchange and they want me to be an early contributor.  I'm very humbled and appreciative that somebody thinks that much of the project (and my writing skills.)  I do have to give kudos to Duner who did the early work on the RVP thermostat dissection - he's got the engineering degree, mine is in computers  :P.
--John
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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2014, 10:54:17 PM »
Just curious John,  have you had a day where it ran heat in the morning and then did it's auto switch over to a/c in the afternoon?/c
I tell ya, this Texas weather is somthin' I ain't used to ...... a/c yesterday 80-something deg and humid here just east of San Antonio.  Today cold and rain and headed down to 30 deg.  Had the heat pump cycling all day!  We need the rain tho; Medina Lake is a dry canyon with just 3.3% water. 

Bill
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John Canfield

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2014, 07:16:31 AM »
Hi Bill - pretty sure it's done an auto changeover from heat to cool, I can look at the records and see if cooling was called.

Was just mentioning to Jane that this has been a totally weird winter.  Don't like temperatures in the 70s? Wait a day.  Don't like temperatures in the 30s? Wait a day....
--John
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NoMoreAZ

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Re: Replacing Coleman Mach thermostat with Ecobee Si Smart
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2014, 07:38:27 AM »
The 12V source that powered the Coleman-Mach thermostat and controlled the RVP heat pump control board works fine to power the Si and to control the RVP heat pump.  In other words, all of the necessary wiring is right there at the back of the Coleman-Mach thermostat.

Reason I brought up the alternate source of +12 VDC is because in post #25 you mentioned that you found another source of +12 because you said you had low voltage to the Ecobee and that was a problem.
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