Ford v10 spark plug problems
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Molaker
Well-known member
I've read quite a few 3rd hand reports, but so far, I know of no one who actually experienced the problem - including me with my old '99 E450. It is my understanding the majority of those who had the problem experienced it after a spark plug change. The claim of many "experts" is that the plug change was done without ensuring the threads were clean, anti-seize used and proper torque applied. But, as I said, that's only what I've read. There sure are a lot of those V10's out there. If the problem occurred very often, one would think there would be a lot of F.O.R.D. (found on the road dead) V10's out there.
Kevin Means
Site Team
I agree with Tom. Six months ago we sold a 1999, 32 foot Class A with a Ford V-10, and we had driven that RV all over the place for nearly 13 years - up and down mountain grades, across the desert in the summer (we live in San Diego) - never had a problem (literally). Keep in mind that most engine-types will, at some time in their lifespan, get a reputation for having something wrong with them. I'm not saying that some unfortunate folks didn't have the aforementioned spark-plug problem, but I'd be willing to bet that it's few and far between. FWIW
Kev
Kev
It is a well known problem.....I have had the problem myself. Changing the plugs around 60-70K is the secret along with anti-seize and proper torque. I went and had my heads pulled and put the steel insert in all the plug holes. Cost was about 2400.00 but the peice of mind made it worthwhile. Check the Ford Superduty forums(FTE) and you will find countless accounts of the problem.
The RV I'm in the process of buying is a '99 with 43,000 miles. Engine runs very smoothly; I suspect leaving the plugs alone at this stage is the best option. My truck mechanic friend told me they had lots of these plugs blow out on the fleet of trucks they maintained, but they got good enough with the repair procedure that they could fix one in an hour. Maybe I'll pick up a repair kit and carry it with on the road.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
"Lots" is a relative term. If you are a engine mechanic dealing with major problems, you probably see "lots" of these, but if you consider the total population of the 2 valve V10's, the proportion probably doesn't look so large. But it was significant enough for Ford to issue a TSB on it, and for Hela-coil to tailor a product for the repair (even if the tailoring is just a re-package of one of their standard items).
The TSB actually covers the V8 as well as the V10, for model years 1999-2004. For vehicles under warranty, Ford replaced the heads. If out of warranty, they recommended an insert. The Ford recommended insert is an aluminum type called Lock-N-Stitch.
This is an excerpt from the TSB:
The TSB actually covers the V8 as well as the V10, for model years 1999-2004. For vehicles under warranty, Ford replaced the heads. If out of warranty, they recommended an insert. The Ford recommended insert is an aluminum type called Lock-N-Stitch.
This is an excerpt from the TSB:
First as a Ford modular engine owner, and a race car builder/driver (My other hobby/money pit) for my entrire adult life, let me say that Gary's answer is the correct one,
To let you know what causes the problem, it is twofold: less than perfect design on fords part, and poor execution on the mechanic's part.
If you have the chance, have a mechanic use a bore scope to show you how many threads ford put in that model of head, they have about 25 or 30% less than a normal aluminum head. They fixed it after the first year of the 3 valve version engine by adding more meat to the casting and more threads.
This coupled with carbon build up around the spark plugs threads, which due to the small amount of threads in the head cause the plugs threads to extend past the heads threads, and into the combustion chamber by one or two threads.
and poor skill sets for some of the mehanics cause this to happen:
Here the scenario:
Mech pulls plugs and the threads gall somewhat due to the carbon build up, this tends to damage the threads somewhat.
then a failure to torque the plugs to the correct spec allows them to work there way loose and you then get hot combustion gases start to leak past the threads and eat out more of the threads. then the threads finally let go and you get the telltale bang of the plug hitting the fender well and the woosh woosh from the compressed vapors rushing out the plug hole.
To avoid this I reccomend the following. Vacume out the area around the plug to remove dirt and debris prior to anything else.
Remove the COPS (coil on plug), the fuel rails and anything else in the way.
Break the plugs loose 1/16th of a turn (AND NO MORE) and then spray a generous amount (2~3 table spoons) of carb cleaner or carbon remover around the plug and let them soak for a minimum of 4~6 hours. the carb cleaner will work its way down through the threads and soften the carbon up. you can then remove them without harming the threads. use a suction line to suck out the excess carb cleaner form the cyclinders to avoid hydro lock. (you will also need to change the oil due to contamination from the carb cleaners)
when torquing the spark plugs back in; do it to fords specs, no more, no less, do not use anti sieze, as it will change the tourqe reading of your tourqe wrench. (I think that ford asks for either 14 or 17 ft/lbs of torque, best to look it up)
avoid that "extra little bit of torque for good measure" as too much torque can and will cause you to slightly pull or even strip the threads, remember, there are less of them to start with than what is optimal for an aluminum head .
Drive the engine for about 100 miles and the recheck the tourqe to ensure that they have not loosened up.
this will take care of 99.9% of the problems that ford owners have with this issue.
FYI if you do strip one out, do not use the standard heli coil, use the ford authorized one, if not you will be replaceing the head next when it (the helicoil) lets loose. the ford replacement is a sleeve type, not a coil insert totally different animals.
Ken
Former Marine,
Rotary race car fanatic (25 years)
To let you know what causes the problem, it is twofold: less than perfect design on fords part, and poor execution on the mechanic's part.
If you have the chance, have a mechanic use a bore scope to show you how many threads ford put in that model of head, they have about 25 or 30% less than a normal aluminum head. They fixed it after the first year of the 3 valve version engine by adding more meat to the casting and more threads.
This coupled with carbon build up around the spark plugs threads, which due to the small amount of threads in the head cause the plugs threads to extend past the heads threads, and into the combustion chamber by one or two threads.
and poor skill sets for some of the mehanics cause this to happen:
Here the scenario:
Mech pulls plugs and the threads gall somewhat due to the carbon build up, this tends to damage the threads somewhat.
then a failure to torque the plugs to the correct spec allows them to work there way loose and you then get hot combustion gases start to leak past the threads and eat out more of the threads. then the threads finally let go and you get the telltale bang of the plug hitting the fender well and the woosh woosh from the compressed vapors rushing out the plug hole.
To avoid this I reccomend the following. Vacume out the area around the plug to remove dirt and debris prior to anything else.
Remove the COPS (coil on plug), the fuel rails and anything else in the way.
Break the plugs loose 1/16th of a turn (AND NO MORE) and then spray a generous amount (2~3 table spoons) of carb cleaner or carbon remover around the plug and let them soak for a minimum of 4~6 hours. the carb cleaner will work its way down through the threads and soften the carbon up. you can then remove them without harming the threads. use a suction line to suck out the excess carb cleaner form the cyclinders to avoid hydro lock. (you will also need to change the oil due to contamination from the carb cleaners)
when torquing the spark plugs back in; do it to fords specs, no more, no less, do not use anti sieze, as it will change the tourqe reading of your tourqe wrench. (I think that ford asks for either 14 or 17 ft/lbs of torque, best to look it up)
avoid that "extra little bit of torque for good measure" as too much torque can and will cause you to slightly pull or even strip the threads, remember, there are less of them to start with than what is optimal for an aluminum head .
Drive the engine for about 100 miles and the recheck the tourqe to ensure that they have not loosened up.
this will take care of 99.9% of the problems that ford owners have with this issue.
FYI if you do strip one out, do not use the standard heli coil, use the ford authorized one, if not you will be replaceing the head next when it (the helicoil) lets loose. the ford replacement is a sleeve type, not a coil insert totally different animals.
Ken
Former Marine,
Rotary race car fanatic (25 years)
WILDEBILL308
Well-known member
Hear is a forum with more ansers to your question.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum49/
Bill
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum49/
Bill
(Chip)
Well-known member
We have a fleet of four E350 vans , 5 blown plugs on 3 of them. One was at 25,000 miles with the factory plugs. Not really a big issue as far as I am concerned. We would still buy another one . Not that expensive of a repair, other than the cleaning of our drivers undies when it happens. Chip
agapetile
New member
Hello Kev, I was wondering, in all of those years of traveling, I guess you never took your Class A in for a tune up. Just read this forum and have decided NOT to do a tune up at 85,000 miles. My upcoming trip next year will be between 10 to 16,000 miles. It sounds like this engine is just better left alone until a hickup arrives? Thank you for posting. Stephanie
CharlesinGA
Well-known member
Would you rather have problems on the road, or at home? Have the plugs removed and new ones installed as in post #8 above and drive it a few hundred miles to be assured all is OK and go on your trip.
Charles
agapetile
New member
Ok. Will take your advice Charles. For some reason, do not feel comfortable having the local Black's Tire do the job. Would you take it to someone who specializes in engines? Thank you so much. After reading all day about plugs shooting out of the engine do to a bad install, I am now very nervous.
Greetings,
My understanding is, Ford had a short block for several years (mentioned in Gary RV_Wizard's Post). Because of the short block when spark plugs were taken out incorrectly, and replaced possibly incorrectly, the threads were damaged and the spark plugs would blow out.
Other models with a standard (long block?) didn't have the problem unless your mechanic was harsh on his methods.
I appreciate kenn_chan post on this. My V10 has 77,000 miles on it and I want to do a tune up and of course replace spark-plugs at that time. I'm worried as my chassis is a 2005 (right on the edge) and I've wondered if it might have not been a short block. Best!
AL
My understanding is, Ford had a short block for several years (mentioned in Gary RV_Wizard's Post). Because of the short block when spark plugs were taken out incorrectly, and replaced possibly incorrectly, the threads were damaged and the spark plugs would blow out.
Other models with a standard (long block?) didn't have the problem unless your mechanic was harsh on his methods.
I appreciate kenn_chan post on this. My V10 has 77,000 miles on it and I want to do a tune up and of course replace spark-plugs at that time. I'm worried as my chassis is a 2005 (right on the edge) and I've wondered if it might have not been a short block. Best!
AL
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