Jeep Modifications

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Oscar Mike said:
I called a local shop to get an idea of cost to do what I want to do. If I install ARB lockers front and rear with 4:88 gearing I am looking at $4,500.00 +/-, and if I go with E lockers I am looking at $3,800.00 +/-.
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ARB lockers are $1k each, you will need an ARB (preferably) air pump - that's about $200, ring and pinion gear sets are $150-200 each set (you need two) plus two install kits (not too much.)  So you're looking at about $~3k in parts.  When I regeared, I paid $800 labor so your $4500 quote is ball park and I think a fair price.  It will probably be a full two days labor, not only do they have to pull the diffs, they have to install the air pump, run air lines to the diffs and install switches in your dash area to turn on the pump and activate the lockers.  Not sure about the cost of doing the lift.

I have a 4" suspension lift and it worked great for 33" tires and with a body lift and some other tweaks, my 35" tires are clearing the fender wells.

Towing the Jeep 4-down with large/wide tires (35" +) is very hard on the tires due to tire scrub when the coach makes a turn - your front tires will wear fairly quickly.  I wheeled hard for over a year with 33" tires and I could do practically anything my brethren did on 35" tires.  Like Mike says, tire diameter varies by manufacturer.  My 33" Pro Comp tires were actually a little less than 32".  My 33" and 35" Goodyear MT/Rs actually measured 33 and 35 inches.

Also, once you go the locker route and if you went with 35" tires, you would want to upgrade the axles to chrome moly (high strength) - the large tires can put high stress on the axles and the entire drive train.  Also, braking becomes an issue due to the increased mass of the larger tires.  I upgraded my front brakes which keeps me in control when I need to stop on a steep incline.  Stick with 33" tires, add lockers, regear, and don't forget the Currie AntiRock in front.  Edit:  you have Dana 30 axles, I would not run a tire larger than 33".

The other thing I just thought of is you don't have the 4:1 transfer case the Rubicons have which is another great reason to regear to 4.88.

My DW used to get occasionally scared and was very pensive but the more she rode along, the easier it became (for both of us!)  She will get out and walk (and take pictures) when I do hard obstacles - that's a win-win for both of us.  Buy a small one step plastic stool and add a length of cord to it, your wife can use the stool to get into the Jeep and then pull the cord to retract the step.  One thing I discovered is that it's difficult to be a passenger, I was in the right seat for two days last fall and it was difficult to keep my torso from flopping around (no steering wheel to hang on to) and you are trusting the driver.  I had to bite my lip a few times to not try to help the driver with advice  :p.
 
John Canfield said:
ARB lockers are $1k each, you will need an ARB (preferably) air pump - that's about $200, ring and pinion gear sets are $150-200 each set (you need two) plus two install kits (not too much.)  So you're looking at about $~3k in parts.  When I regeared, I paid $800 labor so your $4500 quote is ball park and I think a fair price.  It will probably be a full two days labor, not only do they have to pull the diffs, they have to install the air pump, run air lines to the diffs and install switches in your dash area to turn on the pump and activate the lockers.  Not sure about the cost of doing the lift.

I have a 4" suspension lift and it worked great for 33" tires and with a body lift and some other tweaks, my 35" tires are clearing the fender wells.

Towing the Jeep 4-down with large/wide tires (35" +) is very hard on the tires due to tire scrub when the coach makes a turn - your front tires will wear fairly quickly.  I wheeled hard for over a year with 33" tires and I could do practically anything my brethren did on 35" tires.  Like Mike says, tire diameter varies by manufacturer.  My 33" Pro Comp tires were actually a little less than 32".  My 33" and 35" Goodyear MT/Rs actually measured 33 and 35 inches.

Also, once you go the locker route and if you went with 35" tires, you would want to upgrade the axles to chrome moly (high strength) - the large tires can put high stress on the axles and the entire drive train.  Also, braking becomes an issue due to the increased mass of the larger tires.  I upgraded my front brakes which keeps me in control when I need to stop on a steep incline.  Stick with 33" tires, add lockers, regear, and don't forget the Currie AntiRock in front.  Edit:  you have Dana 30 axles, I would not run a tire larger than 33".

The other thing I just thought of is you don't have the 4:1 transfer case the Rubicons have which is another great reason to regear to 4.88.

My DW used to get occasionally scared and was very pensive but the more she rode along, the easier it became (for both of us!)  She will get out and walk (and take pictures) when I do hard obstacles - that's a win-win for both of us.  Buy a small one step plastic stool and add a length of cord to it, your wife can use the stool to get into the Jeep and then pull the cord to retract the step.  One thing I discovered is that it's difficult to be a passenger, I was in the right seat for two days last fall and it was difficult to keep my torso from flopping around (no steering wheel to hang on to) and you are trusting the driver.  I had to bite my lip a few times to not try to help the driver with advice  :p.
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I know what it is to be in the right hand seat, I don't like it... I used to enjoy looking at the expressions in my Flight Instructors face when I was learning to fly.

I am going to stick with 33 inch tires and a 4" lift for a one primary reason, the tow-ability.

I looked up the Currie Anti-Rock Sway Bar Kit which lists for $359.00. It looks like the kind of work I can do myself too.

I think I'll go with the "E" lockers, just because of the compressor and such, and it saves about $700.00.

The Chrome Molly Rear Axle kit lists for $456.00, plus labor.

Well there goes the Corvette, my son has been wanting to buy my 2003 Z06...one toy gets gone, one toy gets upgraded.


 
Sounds like you have a start to a good solid plan.  I say "start" because there is never an end to Jeep building. ;D

Mike.
 
zmotorsports said:
Sounds like you have a start to a good solid plan.  I say "start" because there is never an end to Jeep building. ;D

Mike.
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My wife has been after me to get a hobby... ;D.
 
Oscar Mike said:
My wife has been after me to get a hobby... ;D.
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Well there you go.

My wife is really enjoying our Jeep and she was somewhat timid when it came to off-roading similar to your wife.  Our Jeep makes many obstacles feel like speed bumps and she is very comfortable in it so I think that has helped to make it more enjoyable for her.  She gets out and walks once in a while and she says it is to take pictures whereas I know it is because she is uncomfortable on a specific section of trail.  I don't give her a hard time or anything because I don't want to push the issue, I simply give her a suggestion on where to stand to get a good picture. ;D

We used to have ATV's and dirt bikes, she enjoyed getting outdoors and she usually rode an ATV and my son and I were on our dirt bikes, however, the one thing that we both kind of disliked was the feeling of taking half the mountain home with you.

This way we get out and enjoy the outdoors either by ourselves or with friends and head back to camp without feeling like we have been drug through the dirt.

We have eliminated several of our "hobbies" over the years and ended up just sticking to Jeeps and Harleys which has allowed us a little more money to build up our Jeep.  It is an expensive hobby but a fun one.

Mike.
 
zmotorsports said:
We have eliminated several of our "hobbies" over the years and ended up just sticking to Jeeps and Harleys which has allowed us a little more money to build up our Jeep.  It is an expensive hobby but a fun one.
Mike.
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I have been in the process of eliminating some of my more expensive toys, I sold my Harley, because I rode a friend's BMW and I was shocked at the handling, and ride difference. So in a while I'm going to pick up a BMW 1600 GTL. I sold my Camper because I wasn't using it anymore, I'm selling the F550 because I don't have a camper, I just sold my Corvette to my son for 19k (18,000 original miles), and I sold most of my guns to my son, bar a few I think I might have use of.... I spent most of my life collecting the stuff, only to discount it heavily... :eek: so the boys could enjoy it while I am alive to watch them enjoy the stuff.

We (Susan and I) will be continuing to downsize too. Our plans include more and more travel, so at some point we will be moving off our current property and into our RV or a smaller place. I am currently semi-retired, so we are tied down until Susan is phased out of the company

Jeeps fit right in with our travel plans and our lifestyle. I really enjoy getting off the beaten path, so as long as I can tow it to where we're going then it should be all good with my wife. I also like having something to tinker with and a Jeep is a tinkerers dream.

I really appreciate all of the advice and encouragement...Thanks!

 
One caution, if you have a Dana 35 in the back, don't install any kind of locker in it. It is not up to being locked (unless you install a super 35 kit). The front Dana 30 is fine. If the rear is the Dana 44, no problem. You can easily tell which you have by looking at the fill plug...if it is a rubber plug, it's a Dana 35, if it is a screw in plug, it's a Dana 44. Here's a picture of the shapes which you can also tell by.

Also, as far as gearing goes, don't know which transmission you have, but the recommended gearing for the 6 speed on 33's is either 4.10 or 4.56, and for the 42RLE 4 speed auto on 33's is 4.88.
 

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Water Dog said:
One caution, if you have a Dana 35 in the back, don't install any kind of locker in it. It is not up to being locked (unless you also install a super 35 kit). The front Dana 30 is fine. If the rear is the Dana 44, no problem. You can easily tell which you have by looking at the fill plug...if it is a rubber plug, it's a Dana 35, if it is a screw in plug, it's a Dana 44. Here's a picture of the shapes which you can also tell by.
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My Jeep is currently at the shop with my RV getting some tow wiring done, so I will be restless until I know.
 
Oscar Mike said:
My Jeep is currently at the shop with my RV getting some tow wiring done, so I will be restless until I know.
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I edited my post..they do make a super 35 kit to upgrade the 35, but it's expensive enough that you might be able to find a complete d44 as cheap.
 
Water Dog said:
One caution, if you have a Dana 35 in the back, don't install any kind of locker in it. ..
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That I did not know.  You can buy a brand new Mopar Dana 44 rear axle housing for $1500 from Northridge 4x4, with ARB locker, 4.88 gears and chrome moly axles, you are only up to ~$2800.
 
John Canfield said:
That I did not know.  You can buy a brand new Mopar Dana 44 rear axle housing for $1500 from Northridge 4x4, with ARB locker, 4.88 gears and chrome moly axles, you are only up to ~$2800.
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I'll check those out. I've been researching axle housings on the interweb this afternoon and that's the figure I come up with too +/-.

I am putting a shopping list together, right now I am approximately 12-15k into the build if I go all out. And as you know I would have a conservative Jeep, nothing wild whatsoever in a $12,000.00 to $15,000.00 build on a $15,000.00 TJ. 
 
John Canfield said:
That I did not know.  You can buy a brand new Mopar Dana 44 rear axle housing for $1500 from Northridge 4x4, with ARB locker, 4.88 gears and chrome moly axles, you are only up to ~$2800.
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When I priced it out I am around $3,500.00, which would include the disc brake upgrade. If I am going to build it, I might as well build once and right is my motto.
 
Try googling " baja bug grab handle". Some call them Jesus handles. Might make DW more comfotable. I'm sure some 4 wheelers will know what I'm talking about.

Bill
 
John Canfield said:
That I did not know.  You can buy a brand new Mopar Dana 44 rear axle housing for $1500 from Northridge 4x4, with ARB locker, 4.88 gears and chrome moly axles, you are only up to ~$2800.
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Yes John, they aren't very strong axles in their stock state, they don't even hold up well to 35's. I recently installed a HP30 and ARB locker in the front of mine, and haven't done the back because it is a D35. I have plans on purchasing a G2 D44 with gears and ARB probably next year...Wifey will only let me do so much each year (silly wifey..!)
 
A lot of Jeep experts here?
All good advice here. I would not go with the Detroit locker if you live in snow country and want to drive on the road. It will not turn for you and I know this from being pushed out into the barrow ditch to many times. Kind of fun sometimes but a pain.

If you are going to be doing these types of mods then I would be trailering the Jeep. JMHO

Up grade that stock roll bar! I would do this first before anything with what I know now.

I purchased take off axles from a 2006 LJ with lockers and disc brakes for $2000.00 Installed them over a weekend building my own 3 link control arms and track bar. I have run 37" for over four years with know breakage. I have found that the right foot will control the breakage and a good eye.

Oh the Jeep disease lives on!
 
Water Dog said:
Amen, brother...! ;D ;D Of course, how can you argue with scenery like this?
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Agreed, love the snow runs here in Idaho too. I take my grand son to Colorado every year for wheeling. Might be the only time he gets to see the beauty that Colorado offers?

Never know if trails will get shut down?
 
Towing the Jeep on a trailer is out of the question. My motor home would not handle the weight of the Jeep 3,700# +/- plus the weight of an open trailer 1,500# +. I have a 5,000# towing capacity in the MH.

Upgrading the stock roll bar is on the top of the list.

I'll start hitting the junkyards this weekend in hopes of finding a donor Jeep for some upgrades, who knows, I might get lucky.
 
Sorry that you can't handle the trailer weight. Just nice to save the Jeep with all the money that can go into them, John Canfield will agree on that.

Try this guy here for used Jeep parts. http://daveysjeeps.com/
I have used him a few times with some parts and been treated pretty good even with shipping!
 
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