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Author Topic: Rv profiling by police  (Read 6608 times)

JohnF3149

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Rv profiling by police
« on: March 06, 2014, 06:13:56 PM »
Has anyone found that police like to pull over RV's in particular parts of NA? And if you're pulled over are they allowed to come inside without a warrant or probable cause? I'm reading some information on other websites that California is particularly interested in pulling over RV's. Anyone else have information or advise? California is certainly on our list of places we want to go.

NoobRV

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 06:35:03 PM »
I've been all over CA and have never had any issues.  If your RV looks clean and "respectable", then I don't think you'll have problems.  Down in southern CA, if you go through one of those "immigration checkpoints" you will probably have some issues.  Just know that your RV is the same as your home.  Absolutely no law enforcement can enter or search your RV without probable cause, nor can they try to search your vehicle at an "immigration checkpoint".  If they try to question you (interrogate without cause) I recommend turning on your camera and start videotaping them.  Remember, you legally don't have to answer any questions.  You don't even have to answer them when they ask you if you're an American citizen.  They also can't detain you without probable cause...and the fact that you're in an RV is NOT probable cause.

Hope this helps


Water Dog

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2014, 07:25:04 PM »
We live and travel all through CA, and have never been stopped in our RV.
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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2014, 07:33:33 PM »
I've been all over CA and have never had any issues.  If your RV looks clean and "respectable", then I don't think you'll have problems.  Down in southern CA, if you go through one of those "immigration checkpoints" you will probably have some issues.  Just know that your RV is the same as your home.  Absolutely no law enforcement can enter or search your RV without probable cause, nor can they try to search your vehicle at an "immigration checkpoint".  If they try to question you (interrogate without cause) I recommend turning on your camera and start videotaping them.  Remember, you legally don't have to answer any questions.  You don't even have to answer them when they ask you if you're an American citizen.  They also can't detain you without probable cause...and the fact that you're in an RV is NOT probable cause.

Hope this helps
What they can or can't do, will or won't do needs to be balanced with your willingness to be detained and possibly to finding a lawyer to work his magic.  Personally, I'd rather let them have their look and be on my way.
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WILDEBILL308

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 08:11:58 PM »
Not cooperating= probable cause. Try telling the TSA at the airport they don't have "cause" to detain you or search you.
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SeilerBird

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 08:16:01 PM »
The whole problem with refusing an unauthorized search by LEO is that if you do it will make him find a reason to detain you and then they can confiscate your RV and search to their hearts content.
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inscop

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 08:48:33 PM »
I've been all over CA and have never had any issues.  If your RV looks clean and "respectable", then I don't think you'll have problems.  Down in southern CA, if you go through one of those "immigration checkpoints" you will probably have some issues.  Just know that your RV is the same as your home.  Absolutely no law enforcement can enter or search your RV without probable cause, nor can they try to search your vehicle at an "immigration checkpoint".  If they try to question you (interrogate without cause) I recommend turning on your camera and start videotaping them.  Remember, you legally don't have to answer any questions.  You don't even have to answer them when they ask you if you're an American citizen.  They also can't detain you without probable cause...and the fact that you're in an RV is NOT probable cause.

Hope this helps

You probably were not expecting one of those "immigration guys" to be a member of this forum.  Frankly, your advice is really ugly and I find it strange to find ugliness in an RV forum.  You will find that most Border Patrol Agents are just like you: nice, friendly people who have families.  Why would you wish to make their already difficult (and thankless) job worse than it already is?  They are not here to harass you. 

I personally have stopped motor homes that were loaded to the gills with dope and aliens (not at the same time).  We base our stops on a lot of reasons, such as the nervous appearance of the driver and a myriad of other things.  Border Patrol checkpoints are constitutionally authorized, verified by the US Supreme Court.  "The court felt that any intrusion to motorists was a minimal one and that the government and public interest outweighed the constitutional rights of the individual."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Martinez-Fuerte

My advice to RV travelers is to approach the checkpoint as you would any other law enforcement operation.  A smile, while not required,  would not hurt.  Open the window and be prepared, usually to be just waved through, or to answer a couple of quick questions such as, "Please state your citizenship."  And if you ARE a US citizen, why would you not proudly proclaim that fact?  Just to be an ass?

Be aware that your rig is much higher than a car and the agent can not see down into it like they can see into a car.  They may ask to peek inside to ensure there are not forty bundles of marijuana or sixty illegal Guatemalans on the floor.  They are not there to take your apples.  Feel free to explain that you do not wish to have them enter the rig past the front door.  That will be respected.   This does NOT apply at the US border.  The guys in blue can enter your rig and look in every nook and cranny.  They can open your refrigerator and your basement.  You REALLY don't want to mess with THOSE guys!  And they WILL take your apples.

You CAN be detained with mere suspicion, not probable cause.  Refusing to respond to questions may not be probable cause but it sure makes you get looked at harder.  For your information, the bad guys are starting to use these tricks, and guess what?  We're busting them because we look harder. 

 Most BPAs go by the same rule I do.  I treat members of the public as well as they will allow me to.  Go up to the checkpoint with a jerk attitude and you will probably get it back in spades.  Approach like a decent human being and see how well that works.  Even thanking them for working and living in crappy border towns away from the amenities that you enjoy everyday would be a very pleasant surprise for them.  They are there to protect you and the American way of life, if I may be allowed to use such a hackneyed and worn out phrase.

To answer the person's question about can they enter your rig..............short answer is no, not without probable cause.  The trouble is, probable cause is EASY to articulate.  Again, attitude goes a long way.  If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk.  If you act decent, you get treated decent.  You're an RVer.  Why would you NOT want to act decently? 

I am not advocating willy nilly giving up of your constitutional rights.  Just be reasonable.  And don't be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.
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therealsimpsons

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 09:08:16 PM »
^^^^ What he said is excellent. Thank you sir.
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docj

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 09:31:01 PM »
We went back and forth across the US/Canadian border several times last June-August at several different checkpoints sometimes without the MH and sometimes in it.  We had absolutely no problems even when we had our grandsons with us and the BPA had to examine through the notarized permission papers the children were carrying.  After a month in Canada the BPA at the outpost near Browning MT didn't even get angry with me when I gave him our passports but didn't have the vehicle registration immediately available.  All he did was point to a spot where we could pull over and tell me, "get it and bring it to the office" which, of course, I did and we were on our way in a minute.  Maybe being a gray-haired, "older gentleman" with a smile helps!
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Water Dog

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 09:32:37 PM »
  Why would you NOT want to act decently? 
I am not advocating willy nilly giving up of your constitutional rights.  Just be reasonable.  And don't be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

^^^^Exactly...!
Dennis

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Jeff

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 11:38:58 PM »
We have been RVing since the mid 70s and have never been "pulled over" while in our RVs. On the few occassions a customs agent has come in the RV it was for a quick look around.


We have had one instance where US border agriculture inspectors went overboard but after throwing us out of the m/h they didn't find anything and sent us on our way.


We really have no reason not to cooperate with US Border agents or law enforcement.

Mavarick

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 12:50:07 AM »
Yea, I'm with Inscop 100% here. When we went to AK with 2 dogs I was a bit concerned about all the border crossings. It took once or twice to figure out exactly what papers they were going to ask for, and then it seemed the more prepared I was the less they actually wanted to see and maybe they just asked a few questions. Overall, I quit worrying about it and found they did more joking with me than anything else. I find the more relaxed you are the more relaxed they are. They expect nervous, simply because there is a big difference between nervous and guilty. Bottom line, don't worry about it, unless you are carrying dope or 25 Guatemalans!  :D
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Tom

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2014, 12:58:34 AM »
One time while driving north from Yuma, AZ we stopped at the border patrol checkpoint, as we have on a number of occasions. My wife was driving, as she does 95% of the time. When she opened the driver's side window, one of the agents, who looked like he might have originally been from south of the border, said in a Spanish (Mexican?) accent "Welcome to Mexico Senora, have a nice day". It took Chris a second or two to realize it was a tease, and she laughed. I could see the other agents turning away and cracking up.

I guess we didn't fit the profile that day  ;D
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 12:12:32 PM by Tom »
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captsteve

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2014, 06:44:39 AM »
Back to the OP's question. INS and BP notwithstanding, an RV running down the interstate at a blazing 62 mph in the slow lane does not raise many red flags to regular LEOs. If it did, there are many places on the Interstate highways that they could make a career stopping RVs in one day.

Bottom line is for a regular LEO you for the most part are not even a blip on the radar, until you act recklessly.
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driftless shifter

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2014, 07:22:46 AM »
There's another topic here somewhere, where a retired LEO explained, with citations of court decisions, when an RV is a house and when it's a motor vehicle. The jist of it is, If you are on shore power hookups it's your home. If not on shore power, even drycamping, it's a motor vehicle. Completely different protections under the law.

Bill
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Trailer traveler

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2014, 07:36:07 AM »
INSCOP,

Thank you for your post and thank you for your service to our country!

I have to comment on this statement.
...Just know that your RV is the same as your home...
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Carney versus California on when an RV is a home and when it is a motor vehicle. "We need not pass on the application of the vehicle exception to a motor home that is situated in a way or place that objectively indicates that it is being used as a residence. Among the factors that might be relevant in determining whether a warrant would be required in such a circumstance is its location, whether the vehicle is readily mobile or instead, for instance, elevated on blocks, whether the vehicle is licensed, whether it is connected to utilities, and whether it has convenient access to a public road."

Driftless Shifter,

The other topic.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 07:42:29 AM by Trailer traveler »

Bill N

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2014, 08:28:35 AM »
Why just yesterday I saw a State Patrol pull over a nice looking DP with a toad.  He had his lights on for about 1/4 mile with no reaction from the DP so the LEO pulled in front of the coach and that got his attention and he pulled over.  With one look, it was obvious why the pullover.  The toad right rear tire was in shreds and riding on the rim in places.  I stayed a ways behind all this action because I was taking my soon-to-be toad to CW to have the base plate and wiring installed and was interested in why the RV was being pulled over.
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John From Detroit

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2014, 08:40:22 AM »
I have heard some horror stories when an RVer crosses over into or from Canada or Mexico, but that is the only time.

The only case I know of where an RVer got pulled over that a car driver would not the RVer had overroad the safety interlock on the overhead front TV so the kids could watch TV while he was driving and the trooper issued him a ticket for a TV violation.

Which is why when folks ask how to do that override, I first point out that it is illegal.   (Which it is) to have that TV operating while the RV is being driven.

Problems is: With a rooftop dome and Sat TV.. i'd lke to have it on when PARKING.
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BinaryBob

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2014, 08:46:20 AM »
....  The trouble is, probable cause is EASY to articulate.  Again, attitude goes a long way.  If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk.  If you act decent, you get treated decent.  You're an RVer.  Why would you NOT want to act decently? 

Says it all.
Thanks INSCOP
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Lou Schneider

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2014, 09:54:18 AM »
I've passed through the Border Patrol checkpoints with my RV many times, and only once had an agent ask me to open the trailer so he could look around.

I later realized I had forgotten to take off my sunglasses as I approached the checkpoint, so the agent couldn't see my eyes as he talked to me.


Tom

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2014, 12:24:57 PM »
We've been boarded by a couple of CBP officers when we pulled into the 'Customs dock' in San Diego, after a boat trip south of the border. They made no attempt to search the boat, and were very respectful of us and our guests.

This was prior to the recent rule requiring a passport, and they accepted drivers licenses from all our guest passengers. Chris was seasick and laying on the bed in the forward stateroom; They didn't bother her.

One of the agents looked at me and said "I need either a passport or a U.S. birth certificate" (my Welsh accent gave me away). I'd put our passports in a 'safe place' when we left home 3 months earlier, and couldn't remember where I'd put them  ??? The agent then asked for my drivers license, made a call to his office, and said "You're in our computer, and you're good to go; Have a nice day". Having spent a career traveling internationally, I was in their computer countless times.

The agent didn't need to make that phone call, and could have "refused entry". He probably noticed panic setting in and sweat pouring out.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 12:54:40 PM by Tom »
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Tom

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2014, 12:35:50 PM »
One time, Chris and I helped another couple bring their boat back from Ensenada following "offshore delivery" and 90 days outside the U.S. which, at that time, allowed them to not pay sales tax.

We pulled into the Customs Dock in San Diego and the Captain made a call to CBP (based at the airport). An agent turned up, boarded the boat, and proceeded to give the Captain the third degree; "How much did this boat cost? How much is sales tax on a $1.3M boat? You took this boat to Mexico to avoid paying sales tax?".

The Captain sweated a little before the agent said "I work for the Federal Government and don't care about your dealings with the state of California; Have a nice day". After the agent left, we all laughed and figured this was his daily entertainment.

The point of these 'stories' is merely to illustrate inscop's comment that "most Border Patrol Agents are just like you: nice, friendly people who have families".
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 12:53:20 PM by Tom »
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STEVEandSUE

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2014, 01:58:23 PM »
In this day and age when all sorts of things may be illegal i would never give permission to search.
As my lawyer says "its easy to challange probable cause but impossable to challange consent"

That said I always try to be as cooperative to law enforcement as i can even though i dont understand border checkpoints 90 miles inside the USA




 Steve

Tom

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2014, 02:09:26 PM »
Quote from: STEVEandSUE
... i dont understand border checkpoints 90 miles inside the US

50 miles in my example, and I believe it's an attempt to catch illegals who didn't cross at a regular border crossing, and caught a ride after sneaking across.
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Paul & Ann

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2014, 02:27:12 PM »
In this day and age when all sorts of things may be illegal i would never give permission to search.
As my lawyer says "its easy to challange probable cause but impossable to challange consent"

That said I always try to be as cooperative to law enforcement as i can even though i dont understand border checkpoints 90 miles inside the USA




 Steve

I agree. Never give permission for a search.  Law enforcement wants to use the threat of harassment(if you dont give permission, we will make up some reason) to get people to give up their Constitutional rights.

These inland checkpoints are a farce, and it has to be a thankless job to work them.  If we are going to have inland check points, set them up at the entrances to every meat packing plant in the country, they would catch illegals by the thousands.

A question for inscop;  Are you required under penalty of law to declare your citizenship when asked?

Thanks!

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AmeDeBoheme

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2014, 03:49:05 PM »
  "The court felt that any intrusion to motorists was a minimal one and that the government and public interest outweighed the constitutional rights of the individual."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Martinez-Fuerte

The government and public interest outweighs our constitutional rights???? Sir, with all due respect, "busting" people with "bundles" of legitimate herbal medicine and folks looking for a better quality of life (much like your grandparents/ancestors did not too long ago by lethal force to the native people of this land) is NOT "protecting us and the American way of life." This will probably win me no fans on this forum but to answer your question; "Why would you not proudly proclaim your American citizenship," an "America" that feels they can temporarily pause my freedom and constitutional rights with arrogant posturing men in uniforms, who would deem me suspicious or a jerk for not wanting to answer personal questions or have my personal belongings torn through by strangers claiming to be "protecting" the government and the public interest...this is not an America I am proud of and hope I live to see the day that we all wake up and realize the absurdity in all this nonsense, fear mongering and the gross intrusion of the "freedoms" we proudly define this nation by.

With that said - I must add that I have never been pulled over and have passed through a few internal checkpoints on my journey, with no problems other than a raise in my blood pressure, some aggravated feelings and some wasted gasoline at idling in the stopped traffic. Tho being a white clean cut gentleman probably didn't hurt.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 03:52:27 PM by AmeDeBoheme »

docj

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2014, 04:54:46 PM »
Why just yesterday I saw a State Patrol pull over a nice looking DP with a toad.  He had his lights on for about 1/4 mile with no reaction from the DP so the LEO pulled in front of the coach and that got his attention and he pulled over.  With one look, it was obvious why the pullover.  The toad right rear tire was in shreds and riding on the rim in places.  I stayed a ways behind all this action because I was taking my soon-to-be toad to CW to have the base plate and wiring installed and was interested in why the RV was being pulled over.

That's why it's really nice to have a TPMS system on the toad that reads out in the MH cab.
Sandie & Joel

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docj

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2014, 05:03:29 PM »
We have had one instance where US border agriculture inspectors went overboard but after throwing us out of the m/h they didn't find anything and sent us on our way.


When we crossed into Canada and then back into the US a month later we were fully compliant having downloaded the "what can you bring into Canada" and "what can you bring into the US" documents for both countries.  It was a little disappointing that no one asked us anything, coming or going.  But it was amusing to hear our grandson explain to his parents that we had to get rid of all the "rock fruits" before crossing into Canada.  After a moment and a few puzzled looks, we realized he was talking about "stone fruits" which are prohibited going into Canada!   ;D
Sandie & Joel

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Virgie & Fred

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2014, 06:12:31 PM »
I have a question for inscop; Why do some people still call people "aliens"? I thought it was "undocumented person". You of all people should be more sensitive to this issue.

I am a retired "cop" and retired Army person.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 06:20:26 PM by Army & Police Retiree »

Maddie

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Re: Rv profiling by police
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2014, 06:42:21 PM »
Wow, this thread is going wild in all kinds of directions.  I would say, though, anyone who isn't proud of America and what she has accomplished should go to another country.  Delta is waiting for you.
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