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Author Topic: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?  (Read 4730 times)

fltekdiver

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05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« on: September 19, 2006, 08:20:16 PM »
This is my first post here.

We bought a 2006 Dutchmen 26B-DSl , Travel trailer

I own a 2005 Ford Expedition , with the towing package, which has the 3.73 rear, HD tranny cooler, engine is the 5.4L 300HP
My sticker in the door says GVWR is 7,100 lbs.

GVCWR = 14,500 lbs

The TT has a super slide, and has a 964lb dry tounge rating.

We will NOT be traveling wet, because we live in Florida, and will be going to state park, and camp grounds with full hook-up, so no need to carry water, and generators, etc.

The TT dry weight is 6542 lb2, and the GVW of the TT is 9,600 lbs

The owners weighed the TT and had a weight of 7,100 lbs with all the options, battery, propane tanks, etc.

I weighed my SUV today, at 5,642 lbs with myself, and a full tank of gas.

What scares me here, is the Expy is rated to pull 8,900 lbs, that does not scare me, because we will never be loading the TT wet, and carrying alot of stuff,as most of our trips will be 2-3 hour trips in FL.

We will be withen our GVCWR which is 14,500 lbs.

But my hitch is a class 3, his has a max toung weight of 895 , lbs, and the TT has a dry weight of 964 lbs, of toung weight.

I called Dutchmen today, they said I could drop the toung weight by moving stuff around, to offest it, and use a WD, which comes with the TT, with a resse dual cam set up, I belive.

If my toung weight is 895, and I'm close or exceed, what do I do?

I searched the internet everywhere, and cannot find a class 4 hitch for a 05 Expy.

I talked with several local welder's, they said they can beef up the class 3 hitch, to hold the extra toung weight

Any other suggestions? Can I get the toung weight around 800lbs down from 964?

Also, that is brouchour toung weight, should I wait till I pick it up this Sat, and hit the scales to see what we really would have?

I think they are coming up with a heavy toung weight, for a 26B trailer, that sounds really heavy, as most TT have 500-600 lbs of toung weight in that lenght, any help would be appreciated, as we are loosing sleep over this


Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 09:12:33 PM »
You are shaving things all around.

If you have a 7100 lb trailer, you want a tongue weight of no less than 710 lbs with more being better, at least up to about 1000 lbs.   Tongue weight affects trailer stability, you should have no less than 10% of your actual trailer weight.

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as most TT have 500-600 lbs of toung weight in that lenght

Not true.    I have a 23 footer that scales at 4650 lbs.  It has a 750 lb as scaled tongue weight.   The whole rig is as stable as a flat rock.   

All these intentions of traveling light is just what we tell folks not to do around here.   We recommend, and Bill Estes in his book recommends using the trailer gross vehicle weight rating for evaluating towablity.   You may resolve with great good faith to travel light, but you ain't gonna do it.   You are going to pack kitchen gear, plates and cups, glassware, foodstuffs, tools, clothes, lawn chairs, barbecues, tools, etc, etc.    When you weigh your new baby, make sure that you have all your stuff on board ready to travel.  Otherwise you will be kidding yourself even more.   By the way, loading stuff in the Expedition is not the cure.  You have GCVWR limits there.

OK whaddya do?

I don't know about having welders 'beef up' a class III receiver.  Reese strongly warns against modifying their stuff.   I would get it replaced with a class IV.   Cobbling a class III may or may not work.   You will find that out at the worst possible moment.   What is the rating of your ball mount?   If class III, replace it with a Class IV unit.

Short trips in Florida is your saving grace here.   Keep to that until you are ready to dump the Expedition.  Then look for a truck that can handle the trailer.  Something like an F350 with a big engine and a tow rating of at least 12,000 lbs.   By all means, avoid taking your setup to the mountains -- especially those in the Rockies and the Pacific West. 
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 06:51:45 PM »
Thank you Carl,

We would be only using it in Florida. We are scuba diver's, with about approx 300-500 lbs in gear and tanks, which I'll put in the TV.
Or behind the axels.

We will be going to full service hooks up's, so no need for carrying water etc.

They don't make a class 4 hitch for the 05 Expedition, So We " beefed " up the class 3 , today, added extra steel , etc, with a welder that showed us pictures of about a dozen Rv's, he has the done in the past, with beefing up the hitch.

But we are not " Campers" and didn't buy the trailer to camp.

we bought it to shoot down to the Key's, about a 4 hour trip from us, and stay from friday night to Sunday night, then return back, and on 3-4 day weekends, we normalley go away to dive.

No mountians here in FL, just flat roads

My only concern with this whole set up was the hitch weight, But I feel alot better now that we had our class 3 beefed up.

We expect to have the trailer at 7,500 lbs going down the road loaded, and 6000 lbs in the TV = 13,500 , and the Expty has a 14,500 TGCWR

Thanks Carl, we appreciate it


Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 12:05:58 AM »
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We would be only using it in Florida. We are scuba diver's, with about approx 300-500 lbs in gear and tanks, which I'll put in the TV.
Or behind the axels.

If you are talking about trailer axles don't do that!   It can destabilize your trailer.   You are in a marginal condition now, don't make things worse.  Put heavy loads on the axles or even ahead of them.

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We will be going to full service hooks up's, so no need for carrying water etc

Well shoot, if you like service plaza plumbing, what can I say.   ;D

Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2006, 06:29:10 PM »
Next we hit a triple scale on 95, and we weighed everything.

This is the part where I don;t know how to find my toung weight, so hopfully somone can help me with the weigh in numbers.

Gross wt of the TV = 5,660 lbs

Gross wt with TV + TT = 12,840 lbs

front axle weight of TV = 2,740 lbs

rear axle weight of TV = 3,800 lbs

weight of TT = 6,300 lbs ( we did this with the TT still hooked up to the TV, and WD bars still attached . )

Front bridge = 6,540 lbs

rear Bridge = 10,100 lbs

Gross weight = 12,840 lbs

I don;t know what all these numbers mean, and how to figure my toung weight from there.

I think the WD bars are right where I should have them, and if I have to add any weight like 300 lbs in scuba gear, where would you suggest I store it?

Another thing is, if the toung weight is added to the TT weight of 6,300 lbs, that should put it close to the 7,000 lbs where the people said they weighed it. I'm not sure if that gets caculated in.

we are all most a ton from our 14,500 total comined weight, and the TV rear axle is rated to 4,150 lbs and the from to 3,150 lbs, or a few lbs plus or minus, this is off memory.

The TT weight is about 200 lbs shy of where it will weigh in when we travel, plus scuba gear.

So, according to these numbers, whats my toung weight, and how do we look?


Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2006, 08:19:08 PM »
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So, according to these numbers, whats my toung weight, and how do we look

I don't know.  It is not possible from your numbers to determine the tongue.   You said:

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weight of TT = 6,300 lbs ( we did this with the TT still hooked up to the TV, and WD bars still attached . )

What is missing is the weight of hte trailer unhitched.

In weighing a travel trailer all you need is three weights:

A.  Weight of the trailer plus tow vehicle;
B.  Weight of trailer hitched with WD still in travelling position;
C. Weight of trailer with the coupler raised completely off the ball and the bars with all tension released -- essentially unhitched.

A gives you the gross combined vehicle weight.
C gives you the trailer weight alone.
B - C gives you the tongue weight.

You do not have a C weight in your numbers so tongue weight cannot be calculated.

I realize that by now you have got to be less than overjoyed.   Tongue weight can be scaled directly with Sherline's scale.  To see one click HERE.    They run about $90.

Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2006, 08:34:24 PM »
Carl, If I weighed the TV at 5660 lbs, and then weighed them combined at 12,840 lbs,

I minus the 12,840 lbs combined weight from the 5,660 lbs of the TV = 7180 lbs

Wouldn't that be the weight of the TT ?

TT = 7180 lbs ?

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2006, 08:36:26 PM »
not sure if that would work though, then I come up with 1,520 lbs, that dosn;t sound right either.

Hows that load master scales work ? are they worth the $90.00 ?

They accurate ?

It would cost me another $50 just to tow the TT back to the scales and back, 1 hour each way

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2006, 08:54:17 PM »
If the TV was at 5,660 lbs, and now on the scale, which was a triple scale, a axel on each scale, and front axle was 2,740 lbs, and the rear was 3,800 lbs, = 6,540 lbs, which is 880 lbs more then when I weighed just the TV, that puts an additional 880 lbs onto my axles, and TV, which then toung weight is equal to 880 lbs ?

Alaskansnowbirds

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2006, 09:00:25 PM »
It would cost me another $50 just to tow the TT back to the scales and back, 1 hour each way

Have you looked in the phone book for public scales? Most moving companies, gravel operations, etc. have scales. You don't need a certified weight so many of these places will let you weigh for free.
Don & Peg
Alaska/Arizona
Currently located here.
Weather at Camp Verde, AZ.

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2006, 09:11:27 PM »
Have you looked in the phone book for public scales? Most moving companies, gravel operations, etc. have scales. You don't need a certified weight so many of these places will let you weigh for free.

Not A bad idea, I was going over a hour away to a weigh in station off the highway, thats a certified weigh in station, thank you, I'll check now

Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2006, 04:05:24 PM »
Carl, If I weighed the TV at 5660 lbs, and then weighed them combined at 12,840 lbs,

I minus the 12,840 lbs combined weight from the 5,660 lbs of the TV = 7180 lbs

Wouldn't that be the weight of the TT ?

TT = 7180 lbs ?

You weighed the truck with tongue weight added since it was still hitched.
You weight the trailer with tongue weight subtracted since it was still hitched.
You weighed the truck plus trailer for the GCVW -- truck plus trailer.

Where are you going to get tongue wait out of that? 

You have to weight something unhitched to get a tongue weight as the difference between hitched and unhitched weights.

The easiest way I know of is to weight the trailer hitched.  Move the rear axle of the truck off the scale so that the trailer hitch jack is still over the scale.  Take the weight.   Now released the coupler, and lower the jack to the scale surface.  Raise the coupler off the ball.  ( You do not have to remove the spring bars as long as they are completely untensioned.  Take that weight.   Subtract one weight from the other.  The differrence is the tongue weight.

Tell the weighmaster what you are going to do and make sure his scale can give you accurate weight with the load positioned as you will position it.   Save your self a buck or two and tell him that you do not need a certified weight.
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2006, 04:10:45 PM »
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Hows that load master scales work ? are they worth the $90.00 ?

They accurate
   

The load masters are hydraulic -- a piston and a dial.  Are they worth it?   It is up to you.  If I was putting heavy loads in an otherwise marginal trailer, I would think it was worth it.  It allows you to check loading.

They are accurate.  Back in the dark ages I was an small aircraft tech inspector.  We used identical 'pots' to weigh and balance small military aircraft for the Army.   The procedure was MIL-SPEC.
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2006, 04:49:49 PM »
Thanks Carl, you been a great help.

How do I look so far othern then the toung weight?

You had a link to a scale for around $90.00 bucks, Should I just get that? Would that be easyer?

Or to use that scale, do I still need to goto the scales and weigh in?

Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2006, 05:32:46 PM »
I thought you had already weighed in?

Way back in the thread, I said that your Expediition was marginal in towing that trailer.   You said the trailer GVWR is 9600 lbs and your SUVs tow rating is 8900 lbs.   You are by those lights about 700 lbs overloaded.    The only saving grace is that, you said the trailer, hitched, weighed 6300 lbs.  Hopefully you weighed it ready for travel.   Allowing a guesstimatet of 1000 lbs for tongue weight your trailer should weigh in at 7300 lbs..   Scaled travel weights supercede GVWRs.   Allowing a 10% safety factor your maximum trailer weight would be 8010 based on the tow rating you provided.

In the state of Florida, you now have a cargo capacity of 710 lbs.   Go, enjoy.   Don't take that rig out West tho.
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

fltekdiver

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2006, 08:46:04 PM »
I thought you had already weighed in?

Way back in the thread, I said that your Expediition was marginal in towing that trailer.   You said the trailer GVWR is 9600 lbs and your SUVs tow rating is 8900 lbs.   You are by those lights about 700 lbs overloaded.    The only saving grace is that, you said the trailer, hitched, weighed 6300 lbs.  Hopefully you weighed it ready for travel.   Allowing a guesstimatet of 1000 lbs for tongue weight your trailer should weigh in at 7300 lbs..   Scaled travel weights supercede GVWRs.   Allowing a 10% safety factor your maximum trailer weight would be 8010 based on the tow rating you provided.

In the state of Florida, you now have a cargo capacity of 710 lbs.   Go, enjoy.   Don't take that rig out West tho.


Thats correct, we weighed the trailer , and weighed the TV, we were close to 2,000 lbs away from the GCVWR , and 2,500 lbs under the 9,600 lbs that Dutchmen provieded.

We were at 6,300 lbs, + or minus a few hundered pounds. Today we were out for the day in it, and we re-weighed it, at  6,642 lbs,  loaded up with all our crap for the day.

For some reason, Dutchmen has a 3000 lbs diffenrence between there dry weight and wet weights, GVWR of the TT = 9,600 lbs.

We will never be over 7,000 lbs, as we will be only traveling for a few days at the most all the time, due to busy schedules at work for both of us.

Thanks for your help Carl, We appreciate it.

Any suggestions on that toung weight scale you showed us? They any good?

Carl L

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2006, 12:51:45 AM »
Quote
Any suggestions on that toung weight scale you showed us? They any good?

I bought my version at Camping World way back when.   If you are interested check with the Sherwood site, maybe they have a list of vendors.  It is fairly easy to use and the instructions are good.   I used a cheap Pep Boys jack stand to position the pot under the coupler.  A chunk of 4x4x18 would do better.
Carl L/LA   [Forum Staff]  KI6SEZ

Prowler 23LV TT pulled by a '95 Ford Bronco

rbell

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2006, 09:33:28 AM »
I just read this about the Expedition hitch. Maybe it's too late for this info but the hitch on Expeditions with the trailer towing package is a class 4 when used with a WD hitch. Thats why no one makes one.
Dick
2012 150 Ecoboost
2012 KZ Spree 323CSS

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2006, 08:14:20 AM »
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Maybe it's too late for this info but the hitch on Expeditions with the trailer towing package is a class 4 when used with a WD hitch.

The problem is [was] that if you don't get the trailer towing package, you get a lighter duty receiver as standard equipment - I'm told it's a Class III.   Novices just see the receiver and don't check the details, so may not realize they have the lighter duty version.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

rbell

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Re: 05 Expedition / New TT has toung weight of 964 lbs , am I ok?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2006, 11:22:08 AM »
There are a couple easy checks to see if it has a HD trailer pkg option (536).
1. It will have both a 4 pin and a 7 pin connector for the trailer wiring, The std Expedition only has the 4 pin.
2. Look at the transmission oil cooler the HD pkg has 14 channels and the std cooler only has 7.
This is the end all Ford Towing Guide.
Dick
2012 150 Ecoboost
2012 KZ Spree 323CSS

 

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