diesel truck preferences

bsosborne1 said:

Avoid the 2003-2011 Fords. The International produced 6.0 and 6.4 are not engines that I would recommend to anyone who isn't a mechanic. The engines can be modified to be reliable but it often comes at a great cost. Expect to put between $4k to $10k in the motor of just about any of those trucks. Its real shame because the chassis on those trucks are excellent.

BTW Im not hating of the Fords, I use a 6.0 all the time. Its just not a truck with a good track record

Click to expand...

False statement. Please don't lump the 6.4 in with the 6.0. I put 300,000 miles on a 6.0, when the egr wasn't acting up or the head gaskets didn't blow it was a good motor but you're right, the 6.0 was a reliability nightmare but that is not the case with the 6.4. That motor only suffers from poor fuel mileage because of excessive regenerations but other than that it is a very strong and smooth motor and the torqueshift trans has a very good track record. Again, don't lump the two together, they are completely different engines.

Stewie Griffin said:

False statement. Please don't lump the 6.4 in with the 6.0. I put 300,000 miles on a 6.0, when the egr wasn't acting up or the head gaskets didn't blow it was a good motor but you're right, the 6.0 was a reliability nightmare but that is not the case with the 6.4. That motor only suffers from poor fuel mileage because of excessive regenerations but other than that it is a very strong and smooth motor and the torqueshift trans has a very good track record. Again, don't lump the two together, they are completely different engines.

Click to expand...

Actually they are very similar especially on the bottom end. I work on both motors all the time and I have seen just as many problems with the 6.4. What makes the 6.4 worse to some degree is the difficulty in working on it.

Kamper Dave said:

Curious about pricing:
If you lined up a Ford, GMC and RAM with similar features would the pricing be similar?
:-\

Click to expand...

Dave,  I can tell you the super dooper very low discounted super secret price for 2014 for an F-350 Lariat Crew Cab 4X4 Long bed Dually.  It came to me this morning from EBay from a dealer in TX.  Just for me as long as I don't tell anyone else it is ONLY $64,050.81 FOB some place in TX.    The Truck I have now I bought used last Oct for $19,000 with 55,000 miles on it.

I asked SWAMBO if I should go ahead and order it.  She told me to go for it.  She'd only be working to pay it off for the next 84 months.  Yeah right.  I  have never bought new and never will.

Here is a pic of our rig. 

Tom...

Kamper Dave said:

Curious about pricing:
If you lined up a Ford, GMC and RAM with similar features would the pricing be similar?
:-\

Click to expand...

No

There are three reasons I bought a 2014 Ram 2500, not necessarily in this order.  First, it's the best looking truck by a long shot.  Second, the Cummins speaks for itself.  Third, it's the best bang for the buck.  Apples to apples, the Chevy or Ford was about $3K more in a similar configuration. 

As for new vs used, I would have considered used....BUT....and this is a big but....I couldn't find a decent one that the seller didn't want a fortune for.  It came down to this....

1.  100,000 miles and they still wanted $28-$30K for it....2/3 the price of new.  Yes, I know, the diesels will run forever....but the rest of the truck still has 100K on it.  Dropping 30 large for a truck and then having to plop down and 3 grand when it spews the transmission all over the highway.....no thanks. If it's 2/3 the price of new, why not just buy new?  The I can put the 100K on it and get 2/3 the price of new when I sell it  in 5 years....

2.  $18K, and it's beat to parade rest.  Salvage title, 300K miles, faded paint, torn up interior that smells like feet, and a bazillion incorrectly done bubbafied "mods" to get more power out of it. 

3.  $47K, brand new, warranty, smells new, drives new, looks new, and no goofy backyard bubba worx. 

I'm not getting any younger, and I can't take it with me.....the new one followed me home this time.  Best decision I've ever made.

bsosborne1 said:

Actually they are very similar especially on the bottom end. I work on both motors all the time and I have seen just as many problems with the 6.4. What makes the 6.4 worse to some degree is the difficulty in working on it.

Click to expand...

If you work on them all the time you would know the 08-10 super duty's were designed to have the cab quickly removed and again  there is nothing the same on those motors, the 6.4 was a total redesign, it shares no parts with the 6.0.

Correction, the 6.4 shares a camshaft and has "similar" heads. Other than that they are completely different. I would never recommend a 6.0 to anyone but I would not hesitate to drop the coin on a 6.4, it's track record is far better than a 6.4 but people for some reason like to lump the two motors together.

The mere fact that the cab has to come off the service the engine is an engineering blunder beyond belief....and one of several reasons I avoided a Ford.  On the 1 in 10,000 chance the Cummins ever has to come out of my truck (assuming I keep it beyond the warranty period), me and two of my gearhead buddies can have it out in an afternoon in the driveway of my house.

Ford should have designed it to come out from the bottom if access is THAT occluded from the top. 

If you have to do this to service the engine on your truck, you should have bought a Ram......

Frizlefrak said:

The mere fact that the cab has to come off the service the engine is an engineering blunder beyond belief....and one of several reasons I avoided a Ford.  On the 1 in 10,000 chance the Cummins ever has to come out of my truck (assuming I keep it beyond the warranty period), me and two of my gearhead buddies can have it out in an afternoon in the driveway of my house.

Click to expand...

So it's an engineering blunder because it's not the way you feel it should be done?  I disagree, they made it so you can hoist the cab off the chassis, which by the way is a normal practice for most mechanics that want to do major repairs without pulling the motor. Ford makes it so the cab can be lifted off in a very short period of time. I don't see how that's a blunder but i guess if it was a dodge/cummins idea it would be okay.

Edit: Fixed quote.

Personally... I think the "blunder" is that normal everyday Joe's does not have a lift in their garage to accommodate the Ford Cab lift procedure. So it might be great for the Ford dealer that makes good hourly wage but how about the common folks like myself?

Mopar1973Man said:

Personally... I think the "blunder" is that normal everyday Joe's does not have a lift in their garage to accommodate the Ford Cab lift procedure. So it might be great for the Ford dealer that makes good hourly wage but how about the common folks like myself?

Click to expand...

Exactly.  How am I going to lift a cab off at home?

Frizlefrak said:

Exactly.  How am I going to lift a cab off at home?

Click to expand...

The whole Dealer Repair System is a huge rip off con game.  They don't fix anything,  the mechanics are paid to just change as many parts as possible.

Last spring we had our starter freeze up on our 2001 F-250 7.3  and a wire shorted out and it took out some electrical things on the truck.  I got it running with the help of a local repair shop in Cambden SC.  As luck would have it we had a warranty on the starter and the mechanic changed it out for very little and changed a couple of blown fuses.  Right?  Wrong..  As I drove away, I realized our windows would not go down and we were leaving the next day to go home to Iowa and it was after 5 on friday.  I went back to the shop and the mechanic was still there,  he tried everything to get the windows to go down,  no luck, so we made the trip home with weak A/C and no ventilation except the dash fan. 

I went into the Ford Garage in Independence Iowa and was quoted $900+ to change the GEM  (Generic Electrical Modual) and both window actuators.  I didn't have the funds available so I told them NO. 

We went out to St Paul Ne for my wifes next job and I found Dick's Repair there.  Showed him the quote from Ford and He said he would have his chief computer whiz kid/mechanic look at it for just a time charge and then call me with the results. 

They ran me home to the TT and I had barely gotten breakfast made and sat down to eat and the kid called and told me it was fixed and he was on the way to get me.

Total charge was 1/2 hour Labor $35.00 and .45 cents for a piece of wire.  The windows went up and down like gang busters  continued to work until we sold the truck.

In Vegas the Ford parts charged me $16 dollars for a small spring steel clip to hold the  head light in.  The size of a quarter.

I really, really try to never go to a Dealer for anything...

Frizlefrak said:

Exactly.  How am I going to lift a cab off at home?

Click to expand...

It doesn't take a genius, I think you could figure it out.
So basically you bought a new truck and now feel like you can go around the board and trash the other makes that you really don't know much about? Okay.
Also, removing an engine from underneath a truck has it's own challenges too and really, if your engine needs to be pulled are you seriously thinking you're going to do that at home in your garage? With all the junk on these motors, yes the cummins has to satisfy emissions too, I would have to believe you're going to want to perform that operation in the proper facility, nothing is easy anymore, this isn't the 70's or even the 90's for that matter.

Mopar1973Man said:

Personally... I think the "blunder" is that normal everyday Joe's does not have a lift in their garage to accommodate the Ford Cab lift procedure. So it might be great for the Ford dealer that makes good hourly wage but how about the common folks like myself?

Click to expand...

Mopar, I've seen your posts many times on here, you're a very resouceful guy, i think you can figure it out, as most guys who would be knowledgeable enough to pull one of these newer motors.

Stewie Griffin said:

So basically you bought a new truck and now feel like you can go around the board and trash the other makes that you really don't know much about?

Click to expand...

I think you're embellishing a bit.

Other than lambasting the need to remove a cab to service an engine on this thread (which I stand by), show me where I've done that.  I've advised people to do their research before committing to buying a 6.0 PSD, but I don't recall trashing other makes on any thread.  If I'm mistaken, please post a link to the thread where I've done that.

I've driven all three HD trucks.  Each has it's individual merits and demerits. 

Frizlefrak said:

I think you're embellishing a bit.



Other than lambasting the need to remove a cab to service an engine on this thread (which I stand by), show me where I've done that.  I've advised people to do their research before committing to buying a 6.0 PSD, but I don't recall trashing other makes on any thread.  If I'm mistaken, please post a link to the thread where I've done that.

I've driven all three HD trucks.  Each has it's individual merits and demerits.

Click to expand...

I guess the blunder comment wasn't trashing huh? I guarantee you if cab removal was a strategy used by Ram you'd be fine with it. I happen to think it's an easy way to work on a motor but to each his own.
Again, the 6.0 is an embarrassingly bad motor but the 6.4 is a totally different animal and doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the 6.oh. The 6.4 has proven to be very reliable and when the dpf is removed it has as much, if not more, potential than any other motor out there. As is the case with the duramax and cummins motors the 6.4 suffers from government mandated emissions junk and that's all.

Ok guys... I know this is getting a bit heated... Let's cool down a moment.

Let's just agree each brand name has its own unique issues.  :

Dealers are good for dealership only parts, or key parts when you never want to have to do a big repair again.

Pull the cab and front clip:
I hope that's only needed for in-frame overhaul, it would be ludicrous to have to do it for engine accessories repair/ replacement. That, and all those electrical plugs, being unplugged and plugged back in every time, the chances of electric issues bother me.
I was a Ford truck guy, during my boating years.

Bill

driftless shifter said:

Dealers are good for dealership only parts, or key parts when you never want to have to do a big repair again.

Pull the cab and front clip:
I hope that's only needed for in-frame overhaul, it would be ludicrous to have to do it for engine accessories repair/ replacement. That, and all those electrical plugs, being unplugged and plugged back in every time, the chances of electric issues bother me.
I was a Ford truck guy, during my boating years.

Bill

Click to expand...

And that's exactly what it's for, they aren't pulling the cab to replace glow plugs, injectors or EGR parts but they'll pull it to do head gaskets or any type of major overhaul. I've seen mechanics do this on all makes, ford just makes it easier to remove the cab with quick disconnect plugs and fittings. Don't know about you but I wouldn't mind doing an overhaul without the need to pull a motor.

As usual.... a truck thread has disintegrated nicely....

The wife and I were talking just the other night about the 6.0 fords. From everything I've heard replace the head bolts and remove the smog crap and it's a solid engine. One thing we were talking about was there must be about a million and a half of those 6.0s on the road and that engine cost international the engine contract for ford, still, with that many on the road most of em must work.
We've decided we need a bigger truck. Towing the new(to us) trailer around we've decided the 1/2 ton just isn't going to cut it. I can't afford 50 or so thousand for a new one so it will be used I think.