Generators

That starts first pull..... Did you know there are rules for small engines.

COLD, they should start by the 3rd pull, if you pull the rope a 4th time they need service.

WARM: first pull,

NOTE: If they start on the 1st pull cold.. Well that meets the rules since they only speak to the 4th pull as violation.

True story: Had motor for a power ladder serviced that spring.. The shop messed it up but I had the skills to fix it (fogot to tighten some bolts and I intuited the proper spacing as it turns out,  set it and tightened the bolts down).  Ours was I think 2 pulls cold, one warm and we'd already run it once that morning.

Kid across the street been pulling on that lawn mower rope for a good half hour when I climbed down to send up a box of nails... I looked at him, he at me, I flipped the shorting bar off the spark plug, Took TWO FINGERS and gently pulled the cord.. Stepped on the pedal to run the platform with the nails on it up the ladder and smiled.. If looks (his) could have killed I'd not be typing this.


We hated lawn mowers where we were working.

Well I thought we would be upgrading to a inverter generator this year. The Champion 3100i was being cleared out for $676 at Overstock.com and I was so sure that I gave our 3500/4000 to a neighbor, boy is he tickled.

Luckily before hitting the buy button I did some research. We tend to camp above 9500 ft and generators lose considerable amounts of their power at those altitude, even more when it gets hot. I asked others about how their 300w inverters did with AC up there and got answers ranging from no, up to 8500 ft and a few well if I turn everything else off, turn the fan on first, then it might run the AC but it is running full blast. I even called Champion and was told no and that even a pair of 2000w units would be derated to 2200w running.

Might be able to running on the ragged edge isn't a good choice so it's back to the trusty 3500/4000 for us. Right now the remote, electric start unit is only $75 more than the basic unit plus wheel kit so I guess we upgraded a little at least. I can get the 3 DB difference when running the AC with a enclosure of some sort. (probably more)

JiminDenver said:

Well I thought we would be upgrading to a inverter generator this year. The Champion 3100i was being cleared out for $676 at Overstock.com and I was so sure that I gave our 3500/4000 to a neighbor, boy is he tickled.

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You know, if you want to move next door to me, the house is for sale.....just sayin'..... ;D

Actually it was not that hard. we gave $62 for 3 years ago, it was older unit and we were the third owners. The first two used it for a trailer and then a cabin and it looked like it. Even so it starts with one pull in any weather and has what it took up there.

Being a older 240v/120v unit meant it didn't have the cleanest power. the newer 120v only units are nearly as clean as a inverter generator.

JiminDenver said:

Actually it was not that hard. we gave $62 for 3 years ago, it was older unit and we were the third owners. The first two used it for a trailer and then a cabin and it looked like it. Even so it starts with one pull in any weather and has what it took up there.

Being a older 240v/120v unit meant it didn't have the cleanest power. the newer 120v only units are nearly as clean as a inverter generator.

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Yeah, but the price was still very attractive for a working generator. 

I found a 7k Onan last fall not working for $200.  turned out to be the rubber bushing between the flywheel and the generator pulley. $40 including a new belt.

I will convert it to tri fuel and get a box made for the front of our Alpine.  also find one of the Onan wireless remotes.. overall less than $1000 installed.  about the price of a honda 2000i!.

The worst thing is not having enough power when you need it. The second worst is falling prey to a sales geek with too many undersized genys in stock.

I am a Honda portable guy because #2: I can get any of my 4 different sized gens serviced just about anywhere. I have 4 because I work Emergency Communications and which size I deploy with depends on the incident or event.

And #1: Because if mamma ain't got no power... SHE AIN"T HAPPY!

As for my RVs onboards... It's Onan all the way. And for exactly the same reasons.  Neither have ever failed me.

The first thing you need to do is tour your rig and make a list by name of the devices you need to power and their watt rating. This info is found on the UL required sticker. Then, add to the list any take alongs, including chargers, you may desire.

Take your list and go to: http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/wattage-calculator    This will help you to buy the right sized geny.

The thing you need to watch out for is sign wave. Some appliances require cleaner power than others. a buddy was going nuts because his microwave worked on shore power, but not on his new geny. A quick trip to best buy solved that problem.

Another issue is surge. Some of today's electronics don't play well with repetitive power spikes or drop offs. And BTW... If the magic blue smoke escapes from any of your electronic devices... Unplug them at once and dispose of them in the proper manor.

There are several great genys on the market, even some multi fuels that can run on gasoline, propane or diesel. And after size and fuel... Then you need to decide if you want push a button start, or if you prefer a good upper body workout?

And hey, you already did the first thing right... You came to the campfire to ask before trekking into unknown and unholy lands.

Jeff

Jeff

Okay, I have been doing a lot of reading and even took my new (new to me) 97 Jayco Hawk out for a first trip and brought a brand new briggs and stratton 3500/4375 generator along.  When we fired it up, it was pretty hot (85 - 90 degrees) in the camper.  We fired up the genny and turned the AC on high and plugged in 3 phones, a tablet and a laptop.  The genny seemed to struggle at times, so we unplugged all the charging electronics and put the AC on low.  It seemed to do okay with that for the most part and we were able to plug a few things in to charge.  At one point I wanted to use the microwave.  I turned the AC off and the micro bogged the genny down after about 10 seconds or so.  I could not believe that just a microwave was too much for the genny.  I have had other friends who know more say that a 3500/4000 generator should work all that fine.  Now all that including the micro does seem high, but all the electronics and the AC seems reasonable.

What do you all think?

Also I understand the peak load vs. continuous load, but it seems odd that ALL the generators in that range are 3500 continuous, but they range from 4000 to as high as 4800 surge.  Do I really need the extra surge?  I am looking at two now, and one is 4000 surge and the other is 4400 surge.

Bob

Welcome to the group!!

Additional surge capacity is nice to have, you never know but.... Make sure you purchase an inverter type generator that is QUIET such as a Honda or similar. Open frame generators (construction generators) are not conducive to good neighbour relations or pleasant to listen to for the camper himself over extended periods . The other advantage to the inverter type is that the speed, noise and gas consumption are relative to the load being supplied. Hondas are not the only choice but I cannot remember the other manufacturers names at the moment!!! 

Sometimes it is advantageous to buy two smaller units that can be synced together to supply a bigger load. That way, you may not have to run both when smaller loads are anticipated.

Thanks Alfa for the welcome.  Money is a big factor for me.  Noise not so much.  Where I camp that I would need the genny, I am pretty isolated.  And I don't mind the noise so much as it is white noise to me.  Here are two that I am considering:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001BMDFPS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3KBLNLZ55UTSO&coliid=IR3ZLTFJL9BP

I like this one for the electric start and the pull start.  It also has a higher surge rating, but it does not have the RV outlet and I am worried about that 120/240 switch and the potential damage if I don't pay attention or if it gets hit while running.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004054GN8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3KBLNLZ55UTSO&coliid=I3FZNP9NZL16K0&psc=1

This one has the RV plug and I think a better reputation, but lower surge and no electric start (electric start is not a huge deal for me)

Any thoughts on these and if 3500 would be sufficient for me?

Bob

Generally 3500 is enough but it depends on your altitude.

I wanted to go the inverter generator route but I camp way too high to use a 3000w inverter. A 4500w would do it but they weigh close to 200 pounds and cost $3000. Like you we are pretty isolated where we camp and have been using a 3500/4000w Champion I mentioned earlier. Since I gave it away thinking I could get a inverter, I had to replace it with another 3500/4000 Champion except this one has remote electric start that automatically delays the load when starting and shuts if off before turning off the generator. Right now they are sale at Cabela's for $429 while the regular version runs right around $300.

They are quieter than the B/S open frames, generally start on the first pull and have a pretty clean sine wave.

I don't see any way the a/c and some electronic devices could have legitimately bogged down a 3500 watt (continuous) generator. That is maybe 2000-2400 watts max.  It would be normal for the engine load to increase dramatically with that size load, but as long as the engine runs at the rated speed (usually 3600 rpms on that type of generator) the power output should be fine. If it was not, I'm guessing that the engine isn't running right and could not support the load.

Are you sure it "bogged down"? Or was the engine just working harder? The generator should shut itself down if it cannot maintain both voltage and frequency within acceptable limits.

A large microwave draws wattage similar to a single rooftop a/c, so same applies there.

Our Boliy is 3300 / 3600 peak.  The only time I can remember overload to breaker shutdown is when wife unit was 'fiddling' with the front bedroom aircon (she was cold) and did an immediate restart of the compressor.... Normal restart while cycling does not cause problems.  This was while using computer / phone chargers, probably 32" TV in main cabin, unit main battery charger.....  I am careful to not use the coffee maker or microwave while the 15K aircon unit is running and may cycle.  Over all, the 3300 running power is well more than enough for our needs and we use plenty of power.  JS

Gary RV Roamer said:

Are you sure it "bogged down"? Or was the engine just working harder? The generator should shut itself down if it cannot maintain both voltage and frequency within acceptable limits.

A large microwave draws wattage similar to a single rooftop a/c, so same applies there.

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Each time, the a/c or micro would dim, run slower, that sort of thing, so yes the genny bogged, but I so did the a/c and micro.

Bob

Thanks guys. 

You really know how to make a guy feel welcome!

Bob

Every time it "struggled" was probably the surge of the A/C compressor kicking in. Are you sure it was a "struggle" or was it just taking up the load? How long is the "struggle"?

Bill

It sounds as though the generator's engine is not able to increase its output fast enough to keep up with changing demand. The engine is controlled by a governor that seeks to maintain a constant RPM (usually 3600 in a gas genset) regardless of load.  A clogged fuel filter, dirty air filter, bad spark plugs, or similar problem might prevent it from responding quickly.

If your trailer/coach has a 30 amp connection, the most you can draw is 3600 watts without blowing your main fuse. If you camp out in the middle of nowhere (no nearby neighbours) and you don't mind the noise, go for the one you prefer. But don't even consider either of these two if there are to be neighbours anywhere close by or using them in a campground. They both are what are often referred to as Construction generators and are noisy. Inverter type are easier on gas and noise as I think their operating speed is proportional to load but I did not look into either far enough to see if that is the case for these.

I see one potential issue.. Here I'm on 20/30 amps.. THat is I have one A/C on 20 amps, the rest of the MH is on 30.

I keep tripping the 30 amp breaker

I have turned on: The Fridge,  ONE A/C, the CONVERTER!!!!!, and 4 amps worth of electronics (per the Prosine).

So I trip the prosine's breaker and transfer that load to battery.  Still trips the breaker

I have to switch the fridge to gas,, Now the breaker holds.

WHY.. The converter on my RV can such 11-12 amps if the batteries are low

13.5 (A/C) 3-4 (Fridge) 4 (Electronics) = 21.5 times 1.15 (Boost mode on Hughes autoformer) = about 24.725 plus hughes itself can push it over 27,, 27 can trip a 30 amp breaker given enough time and a stingy breaker. or when A/C compressor kicks in.. I do Dishes in the morning (Since I switch from A/C to Water heater at night).

Should change sites, A-31 is open and the breaker there is more Robust.

The breaker here (B-6) however is less than 2 weeks old (Brand new in short) since the box had to be rebuilt when I pulled in and he put in all new everythign, New breakers, new outlets new "Front panel" only the box remained.

Just FYI I put a amp clamp on my camper to get real numbers for the devices and the A/C pulled 18 amps on start up and then dropped down to a run of around 10 amps. If you are this close to your max then The extra 5 amps on start up could be your issue. I installed a quick start cap on the A/C unit and was able to bring the start up down to around 15. Most units did not come with fast start type cap on the A/C but newer ones do. In newer units they just installed a larger starting cap to assist start up and the older ones a extra starting cap can be installed to add capacitance to the system.