Start battery on 99 win Adventurer

I wanted to go to Quartzite this year, but when I got to my MH, it wouldn't start, Generator wouldn't start, as well as many other problems.  I got everything else fixed, and am now working on the starting issue. 

When I try to start it, it just clicks.  Dead battery, use the MOM and all will be well, not exactly.  After having a charger on it, the generator did start, so I thought, give it some time and the starting battery will charge up.  After about an hour, it did more than just click, but still wouldn't start.  The steps wouldn't operate, and they work off the starting battery, I think? 

I opened the "hood" to look for the battery, and I didn't find one.  But with the "house" batteries, I noticed that two of them are hooked together, then on the one that's closest to the engine, shares the ground post, and the positives are hooked together on a solenoid.  But when I tried to locate the cables going to the starter, I couldn't trace them back to a battery, because of the tight spaces.  On an old thread I found some information that on :

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"Older Winnebagos didn't have a battery isolator - they have a relay that ties the house and chassis batteries together so they can both get charged from either the engine alternator when the engine is running or the house converter when you're plugged into power.

The MOM / DUAL switch pulls in the bridging relay John described that bridges the house and chassis batteries together.

Both sides of the switch pull in the same relay, the difference is where the switch draws it's power from.

The DUAL side gets it's power from the chassis battery so even if the house batteries are completely dead, the relay will pull in and let the engine alternator charge both sets of batteries.  It will also send charging current from the converter to both sets of batteries when you're plugged into shore power."

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If this applies to a '99, then that third battery must be the starting battery, is that right?

This would explain a lot, as I've had problems boondocking, and not having enough power without running the generator.  And boondocking at my farm is the main reason I bought this MH.  This winter I haven't used it, just worked on it.  I've worked on the jacks, the steps, the windows, the sewage system, the vents, etc., so I figure I might as well do these batteries up right.  The box under the step does not look big enough for four batteries.  They are the same batteries that were in there when I bought it, and I don't know when they were replaced.  What would be the best batteries/or system, to increase my boondocking capabilities as I need to replace all the batteries anyway? 

Thanks,

  Steve

It will also send charging current from the converter to both sets of batteries when you're plugged into shore power."

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I do not think this is true on a 99 gas powered Winnie!!! It is on most Fleetwood built models though.

The starting battery is often located next to the house batteries as you found. The pair tied together are the house batteries, usually the marine deep discharge type and the single would be the chassis start battery It is a different kind of battery, no deep discharge feature.

The generator is often started from the house batteries but not always. It varies by make and model of coach.

99WinAdventurer37G said:

.. The steps wouldn't operate, and they work off the starting battery, I think? ..

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Correct.

Not sure how many chassis (or starting) batteries Winnie put in your Adventurer but you should have one or two chassis batteries and apparently you have two house batteries.  Each set of batteries will be wired in parallel and when the engine is running or when the Battery Boost switch is depressed, all batteries are tied together by the battery mode solenoid.

Your chassis battery (ies) will not be charged from the converter/charger while plugged into shore power unless you or a previous owner added a device (Echo~Charge, Trik-L-Start, etc.) to divert some of the house battery charge voltage to the chassis battery.

You need to do some investigation to find your chassis battery (surely Winnie put a chassis battery in your rig) and look at the dates on the battery - if they are older than three-five years, replace them.  If they aren't, pull them and have them load tested at an auto parts store.

Also, do a search on this board for upgrading your converter to a good three-stage charger and add an Echo~Charge (or whatever) device.

It's quite common in gas-powered motorhomes to have two house batteries and one chassis battery, often all together. Often the house batteries are a pair of 6v GC2's wired in series and the engine battery is a separate, single, 12v. Both are grounded to the frame and they are not connected together except via that "bridge" relay you mentioned.

Clearly your engine battery is a goner - won't take an adequate charge. It needs to be replaced.

If you could post a picture of the three batteries in situ, I'll bet we could immediately tell you which is which.

John Canfield said:

Correct.

Not sure how many chassis (or starting) batteries Winnie put in your Adventurer but you should have one or two chassis batteries and apparently you have two house batteries.  Each set of batteries will be wired in parallel and when the engine is running or when the Battery Boost switch is depressed, all batteries are tied together by the battery mode solenoid.

Your chassis battery (ies) will not be charged from the converter/charger while plugged into shore power unless you or a previous owner added a device (Echo~Charge, Trik-L-Start, etc.) to divert some of the house battery charge voltage to the chassis battery.

You need to do some investigation to find your chassis battery (surely Winnie put a chassis battery in your rig) and look at the dates on the battery - if they are older than three-five years, replace them.  If they aren't, pull them and have them load tested at an auto parts store.

Also, do a search on this board for upgrading your converter to a good three-stage charger and add an Echo~Charge (or whatever) device.

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X2 on John Canfield's reply. My 2002 Adventurer is set up with two house batteries (6 volt wired in series) and one chassis battery.  Plugging into shore power only charges the house batteries.  Only the engine alternator charges the chassis battery.  But I am about to buy a Trik-L-Charger and install it to allow the house batteries (and shore power) trick-l-charge the chassis battery.  If you sit a long time, the chassis battery can tend to lose some power.  Using the slides and hydraulic levelers takes power from the chassis battery.  Not sure about the awning and steps but I think the steps come from the chassis battery also as they still work when I hit the kill switch for house battery use.  I found circuit breakers for both behind a carpeted vertical board above the step which is removed for battery access.  The battery boost is the only way I know of to jazz up the chassis battery for starting the engine.  I am now convinced that my recent exposure to not starting (the dreaded CLICK) was caused by me running the jacks and slides up and in/out to impress the neighbors who were touring the coach and that resulted in draining the chassis battery to a low point just above 12 volts.  I learned also that when you use the boost you need to hold it down for about 30 seconds for it to have a positive effect on starting efforts - at least in my case it did.

Thanks all.  I'm about 120 miles from the MH now, but pretty sure even though they are all the same interstate deep cycle batteries, the one not wired to the others would have to be used as the start battery.  So I will replace the two on the left with DC batteries, and put an actual starting battery on the right.  I'm going to bring my 20 ton bottle jacks out there this time to get a better look chasing down the wire from the starter to it's battery.  It should go to the battery, but from what little I could see without jacks, it looked like it went to a module up front, (a big black plastic box) that is located on the firewall above the passenger side headlight.

I will replace all of them, and get that trick-L-charger installed.  I kept saying I was going to replace them when I bought the MH, but kept putting it off.  But from all of the comments, it's all starting to make since now.  I had problems with the slide and was sliding it in and out while lubing it up, and changing frayed wires.  The jacks, were put up and down several times, and the steps many cycles while I was working on all these items.  The good is that when I finished, the jacks, steps, and slide, all went in and out smartly.  That is what probably was the final nail in the coffin of the starting battery, I thought the generator was charging the starting battery, and it apparently was not.  Also, it's not actually a starting battery.  All three batteries under the steps are deep cycle batteries.

99WinAdventurer37G said:

All three batteries under the steps are deep cycle batteries.

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You don't want a deep cycle battery for your starting battery.

R

If your motor home is like mine, and it should be, the battery positive cable goes to a power post in the battery compartment.

I have a 99 Win Adventurer.  There are 2 house batteries and 1 engine battery.  All 3 are located together under the step. 

In mine (and assuming yours) the engine battery in the one on the right (looking at them from outside). 

In the front behind the hood, if you look inside to the right, you will see a box labeled something like battery switch/solenoid box.

The jacks, slide, and steps all run off the engine battery; I usually run the engine when I run these.  So, it might be good to have a dual purpose battery for the engine battery.  I'm in Alaska but when I get to the states I plan on putting 3 Optima Batteries D31M BlueTop Starting and Deep Cycle Batteries in mine. 

RLSharp said:

You don't want a deep cycle battery for your starting battery.

R

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Several "deep cycle batteries" are dual purpose (i.e. Optima Yellow and Blue tops; also Interstate AGM's) these days...that may be the case for his...

Here's a picture of the batteries under the step.  I've been very busy so I'm just now getting back to this, I'll be buying new batteries soon.  Walmart has some Marine batteries that are Deep cycle batteries with 845 MCA listed, and 125 RC so I think that will work for the starting battery and the house batteries.  $99 each. Thoughts?


Then I'm going to take it to my mechanic and have him look it over and to get it serviced before I head out with it for the summer.

You do NOT want to use deep cycle batteries for your chassis (start) batteries.  Look for a chassis battery with a high number for CCA (Cold Cranking Amps.)

The main thing I do is Boondocking.  At my farm I try to park in the shade, use the generator for about an hour in the heat of the day for A/C, then go back outside after I've cooled off, maybe run the generator for about an hour at sunset, then another hour right before bed.  That keeps me cool and comfortable, and short of running the power out there, at a cost of around $10,000 (running buried power lines) to where I like to park and a monthly electric bill, I don't know of anything short of the generator to run the A/C.  About 2 months a year I need the heat, another two to four months, I don't need anything.  If I decide to do more traveling, I'll probably do less boondocking and more campgrounds.  But that's not in the plans at this time.

These batteries are really a cross of a deep cycle and a starting battery.  Then I was going to get two, true DC batteries for the house.  MCA are measured at 32 degrees, and CCA are measured at 0 degrees.  But I want to get what is best, so I can do one true starting battery then.

So what would be my best course of action in the space I have available? 

I think there is much room under the hood to put another battery dedicated to starting chores.  Then in the space I have under the step, put another true deep cycle?  A golf cart battery?

My other thought is to get some solar for the roof.  It already has a switch at the power station for solar, but since I've had it, there never have been any solar panels.  I don't know if they are a cost effective solution for me. 

I just want to do it up right this time, rather than going the least cost route, then having to redo it right later.

Thanks

I am planning on moving my chassis battery to the front under the hood. A friend has already done this. I will be doing it shortly. He used this battery box

Drop Down Battery Box
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-Steel-Drop-Down-Battery-Box-For-Group-24-Batteries-/171081513751?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d540bb17&vxp=mtr

This leaves room for 4ea GC2 Deep Cycle batteries or 4ea Trojan SCS-225 or T-1275 batteries. On other forums there are reports of the 12 volt deep cycle batteries not lasting long and not getting up to full charge. I have 505 watts of solar and can set my charge controller to bulk charge at 14.8 VDC as required. I don't know if the reports are factual or not, but at the cost of those batteries I hate to take a chance. I will probably go with Sam's Club GC2 batteries.

Solar is fairly inexpensive now with 100 watt panels at about $120 and 140 watt panels at $160 plus about $200 for a charge controller and probably another $200 for cable and $400 for 2000 watt inverter. $400 watts should be sufficient. I like a little mor for cloudy days and will probably up mine to 605 watts and about 30 amps of charging.

What I finally did was to purchase two Energiser AGM batteries with 200 RC and one starting battery with 700 cca at Sam's club.  The house batteries have a 1 year free replacement warranty, and the starting battery has a 3 year free replacement warranty.  I would have thought that an AGM battery at $199 each would have more than a 1 year warranty, but that was the best deal I could find.  Many batteries I looked at had even less RC, were over $100 more, and only had 6 month warranties.  With this set up, I will be doubling my RC to 400 RC, and they will recharge faster than the wet cell DC batteries they are replacing. Once these are installed tomorrow, I will measure to see if I can fit one more AGM in there, that would bring me up to 600 RC.  And while dry camping I will set up my portable Solar system to recharge it.  So hopefully my boondocking will be a better experience.

I will still have to use the generator in the middle of the day, in the summertime here in Texas for the AC anyway, so that will help recharge them as well.  When traveling I seldom boondock for over 8 hours.

I use Lifeline AGMs for our house batteries and Alliance (marketed by Freightliner) for starting batteries.

Let us know how things work for you.