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Author Topic: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers  (Read 7501 times)

Tony_Alberta

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St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« on: May 29, 2011, 12:15:10 AM »
"The city of St. Albert is considering placing limits on the length of time recreational vehicles can park overnight at the local Wal-Mart store.
Mayor Nolan Crouse believes the city should issue permits to businesses that allow overnight parking in their lots.
"It's about garbage. It's about using our own campgrounds and it's about the running of animals that are in that area as well, so it's a combination of all those things," he said."
A little more can be found at the link http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2011/05/27/edm-rv-walmart-camping-ban.html

Garbage?   Really?!?!   Isn't that Walmart's responsibility if an idiot leaves garbage on the parking lot?  Same with animals.     

Ahh, using local campgrounds.  Now that's really the issue.  That is the owner of local campgrounds are putting pressure on the mayor or some such.

Your comments can be sent via links at http://www.stalbert.ca/council-members-and-profiles

Kim (skyking4ar2) Bertram

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2011, 03:13:16 PM »
So one RV park manager "would like to have the trade"...

How many campers a week does he think he might be missing that requires a law just for him "to have the trade"?
Kim & Christi Bertram
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Wizard46

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2011, 03:30:42 PM »
Why should Wal Mart be responsible if an idiot leaves garbage on the lot. Sure they are but guess who has to pay for the garbage collection.

Anyone that leaves garbage in a parking lot should be banned for life.
Jerry & Patsy Potter, Taz & Jake Jr.
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Molaker

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2011, 04:34:33 PM »
Anyone that leaves garbage in a parking lot should be banned for life.
The problem with this (and I agree) is that they won't ban just an individual.  Probably the best we can do to keep these places available is clean up after the a**holes who don't clean up after themselves.
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
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geodrake

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2011, 04:51:52 PM »
It is a sad state of affairs when local government considers ordinances because a retailer (RV park manager Ken Warren ) wants the trade that WalMart has.  His request is no more appropriate than WalMart asking him to not sell anything that they offer in their store.

Most RVers who park at WalMart do so just to get off of the road for a few hours of sleep.  They have no need for the amenities offered by a campground.  If campgrounds were better located and charged a fair price for the same service, WalMarts would not be quite so attractive.

As to the garbage; It likely is not the RVers who are littering.   
George Drake

Ned

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2011, 04:54:08 PM »
From the Escapees RVers' Good Neighbor Policy:

"6. Always leave an area cleaner than you found it. "
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
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COMer

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2011, 08:01:19 PM »
I like George's suggestion that, " His request is no more appropriate than WalMart asking him to not sell anything that they offer in their store."

I haven't heard it explained that way but feel this clarifies how silly the campgrounds are when they want business they feel W/M is stealing from them.  The assumption is that if I could out stay at W/M, I would go to his campground and that is just incorrect.  I would go down the road to another place where I would then spend my money, etc.

 

 

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Orick

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 08:25:29 PM »
It is a sad state of affairs when local government considers ordinances because a retailer (RV park manager Ken Warren ) wants the trade that WalMart has.  His request is no more appropriate than WalMart asking him to not sell anything that they offer in their store.


I'm certainly not siding with Mr Warren on this... but would point out that it would be more accurate to compare WalMart asking him not to GIVE AWAY anything that they offer in their store.  ;)

Rick
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Wendy

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 08:31:04 PM »
I've always maintained that the people who are spending the night in the WalMart parking lot would NOT be staying in a local campground so WalMart is not taking business away from the campgrounds. Outlawing parking at WalMart doesn't move business to the campgrounds in that town, it moves business to WalMarts in other cities.
 
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Orick

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 08:46:06 PM »
"The city of St. Albert is considering placing limits on the length of time recreational vehicles can park overnight at the local Wal-Mart store.

It wasn't clear from the story exactly what is being proposed.  Is it being suggested that WalMart should ban all overnight parking or, as the implication seems to be, just limit the number of nights someone can stay at that store?  I would think that is an important distinction since the position of most RVers is that we just want a convienient place to catch a few hours of sleep... not a base for our vacation.

Rick
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Betty Brewer

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2011, 09:48:07 PM »
I've always maintained that the people who are spending the night in the WalMart parking lot would NOT be staying in a local campground so WalMart is not taking business away from the campgrounds. Outlawing parking at WalMart doesn't move business to the campgrounds in that town, it moves business to WalMarts in other cities.

Wendy  I agree so much.  AND I have never had the good fortune to stay "Free"  at a Wal Mart overnight, despite way  more than a few stops overnight.  I have always spent  at least  $ 50 in the store for groceries or supplies. It would be much cheaper for me to stay in an RV  Park but on the road I do need groceries  and that is when we choose a Wal Mart for an overnight. Their  parking lot is ususally pretty good size.  I wish I had a way to tell local  RV Parks, " Please    hold an area for cheap boon docking overnight... otherwise I wll give my business to Wal Mart.
Betty Brewer

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Alfa38User

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2011, 07:50:46 AM »
Someone should point out to lawmakers of St. Albert the big "kerfuffle" that took place in Maine just a year or two ago when the local campgrounds tried the same thing. The legislation was eventually withdrawn, I believe.
Stu
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M1894

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 10:15:08 AM »
If I see a "No Overnight Parking" sign at a Wal Mart, I just go on to the next town and do business there, after informing the Wal Mart manager of my reasons for not spending money in his town. That gives him some ammunition when confronting the City Council about the loss of business for both Wal Mart and their City. Most "No Overnight Parking" signs erected by a City Council will have an ordinance # attached. I do not make a Wal Mart parking lot a camping sight. I am there for supplies and possibly a few hours rest only.
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jobriant

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2011, 04:55:22 PM »
So one RV park manager "would like to have the trade"...

How many campers a week does he think he might be missing that requires a law just for him "to have the trade"?

By the same logic, nobody should be allowed to prepare and eat a meal in their RV; the city should require them to eat in local restaurants who also "would like to have the trade."

It's also interesting that when campground owners push for this kind of local law, they forget a few things:

They make no provision for an RVer to spend a night when the local campgrounds are full.
They make no provision for an RVer to spend a night when the local campgrounds are closed for the season.
They make no provision to check an RVer into their property at any time of the day or night.
Many older RV parks have spaces too small to accommodate big rigs.
In rural areas, many campgrounds are down roads too narrow, with clearances too low, to accommodate big rigs.
In some cases, bridge weight limits on the way to a campground may not permit access by the heaviest rigs.

If an RV park owner "would like to have the trade" and isn't getting it, he needs to look at his RV park, its condition, his rates, and how he markets it.
Edit: Moved link to signature line.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 06:04:15 PM by Tom »
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John From Detroit

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2011, 06:30:13 PM »
Well in many communities there is another issue that the campground managers can use to "Twist" the arms of the law makers.

Taxes

Let's say you park in Joe's Hideaway Campgroun. You pay say 40/night,, Joe pays taxes on the income thus produced.

You park free at Wally World, the state and possibly the city and county, are loosing tax dollars.

Of course. if you drop into the restaurant on the edge of the Wall Mart parking lot instead of fixing a meal inside the RV.. you may well spend as much as you would at Joe's.

in fact.. In my expierence I tend to SAVE MONEY when I pull into a campground over night.

But they forget that side of the argument when they hold their greedy mits out to the government asking for a law to force you to them.. Or perhaps to a neighboring state.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
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Jeff

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2011, 06:55:17 PM »
Here is a site that you can use to express (polite) concerns to the St Alberts Mayor and city council.

Ken & Sheila

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2011, 09:57:07 PM »
Jeff,

Below is a copy of my email to the Mayor and his response. It appears that they will allow Walmart a "conditional Permit" to allow overnight parking. Whether Walmart applied for such a permit is unknown. I appears that the city has already made changes, probably based on early input they received from the RV community.

Ken

>>
And as such things are misunderstood; who is spreading the wrong news?

(C331-2011) Moved by Mayor Crouse
That, with respect to RV parking at Wal-Mart, Administration bring forward by February 28, 2012 the Land Use Bylaw for Council's consideration to amend the Bylaw to add conditions under which a discretionary permit could be granted, for example:
. stipulating a maximum length of time non-residential RV parking is permitted (other than in a campground site as designated by the bylaw or the City Manager, or a mechanic's licensed place of business); and
. (possibly) prohibiting camping-type activities while parked (campfires, etc.)

CARRIED


Regards,

Mayor Nolan Crouse
City of St. Albert, The Botanical Arts City
Phone:  780-459-1606
Fax:      780-459-1591
e-mail:   mayor@st-albert.net
 

The information contained in this e-mail is intended for the person named above only.  Any other distribution, copying or disclosure in whole or in part to others, shall include providing copy by e-mail to the Mayor for thorough record keeping purposes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenk 
Sent: May 30, 2011 9:02 AM
To: Mayor of St. Albert
Subject: stalbert.ca - inquiry

Dear Mr. Crouse,
In reference to RV parking at Walmart. Understand that banning overnight
parking at your local Walmart will not generate more business for Mr
Warren. It will cost Walmart and the city the loss of the Revenue
generated by RVers that shop (many of whom do not stop overnight) at
Walmart. Most RVers that stop at Walmart overnight are just looking for
a quick easy place to stay and NOT a place to "Camp".

That said it would be perfectly acceptable to place a ONE night limit on
overnight parking. The overnight parking etiquette that is promoted by
Family Motorcoach Assn (FMCA) and the Escapees RV Club requests the
RVers limit there stay to one night among other suggested "rules" (such
as leave the area cleaner than you found it etc.)

You will be doing a disservice to your city if you ban overnight RV
parking. Many RVers tend to just not stay in cities and towns that
choose this course. It might actually cost Mr Warren business.

Thank you for your time.
<<
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Elly Dalmaijer

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2013, 06:01:41 PM »
This is an old topic which I only now discovered. I have been a resident of St Albert for nearly 40 years and have been following the debate about RV parking on St Albert Walmart's parking lot.

As is often the case there is more to this story. It so happens that about 10 miles down the road is an RV dealer (in a rural area) and this dealer started to park more and more of his motorhomes that are FOR SALE on the Walmart parking lot for days on end. Eventually this included  sales people in lawn chairs etc. The dealer was simply using the lot as a free sales centre. The City of St Albert was trying to find a way to discourage this without limiting access  for legitimate RVers looking for a place to stop. This happens to be a Walmart which does not have "acres" of parking because curbsite are several restaurants, banks etc.The dealer was taking the spaces that overnight RVers would be parking in. Of course the city could not really say that they were targeting the dealer so they were walking a fine  in how they had to word the various issues.
The second issue was that the City owns all the land occupied by the entire shopping complex including the Walmart. So the parking lot does not "belong" to Walmart but is common to all the tenants in the complex and these other tenants were also objecting to what the dealer was doing.
Now, two years later, the dealer units are gone, there are no posts that RVers are not allowed and I invite you to come and spent the night! Let me know and we'll get together!

 This was typically a case where you have to have some inside information to judge the situation, and we're glad that it was resolved. Jack and I have often spend a night at a Walmart parking lot, but realize that not all lots are owned by the store and  therefore the store does not always have a final say about overnight RVers.

BTW the local campground is owned and operated not by a commercial interest by by the St Albert Lions Club.

Elly
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 06:04:04 PM by Elly Dalmaijer »
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John From Detroit

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2013, 06:39:17 PM »
There is an easy way to do it, The lot is for the temporary parking by Wal*Mart customers... Now most RVers, who park at Wal*mart do the store the kindness of shopping there... Even if it's only for gasoline.

All they need to do is outlaw FOR SALE vehicles on the lot,, This not only covers the RV-dealer, (But not the owner/operator of an RV who is tired and needs to sleep) but the folks with the cars they are trying to sell.  Also limit it to "Between the hours of 2 and 3 am" or some such, so as to allow the guy who drives his car to the wal-mart, "FOR SALE" sign in window. to buy a gallon of milk.

So any vehicle parked there which is FOR SALE between 2 and 3 am, including all the dealer's stock.. Towed to impound.

Wal*mart also has the option to declare the dealer "Person not wanted" on the property and order him and his vehicles off the site.. This, however is the store's action, not the city's. though the city can then impound.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

RoyM

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2013, 10:23:47 PM »
  Also limit it to "Between the hours of 2 and 3 am" or some such, so as to allow the guy who drives his car to the wal-mart, "FOR SALE" sign in window. to buy a gallon of milk.
That is also illegal, he needs a business license to advertise on a licensed vehicle.
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Elly Dalmaijer

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Re: St. Albert [Alberta] eyes Wal-Mart campers
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2013, 03:26:11 PM »
I checked to find out how this issue was resolved. It was part of the Traffic and Land Use Act. In the end no vehicles displaying a For Sale sign can park anywhere on city property (that includes residential streets) for more than 24 hours. So technically the dealer could still be there but he`d have to move all his units back to his own lot each night. Obviously he did not want to do that and the problem has been solved.

RVers are welcome at the St Albert Walmart!

Note that there seem to be 1267 Walmarts where RVers are NOT allowed to overnight.
See http://travelinwithus.com/traveling-maps/walmarts-and-sams-clubs-with-no-overnight-parking.html

Elly
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