Next motorhome gas or diesel?

Thinking of upgrading from our 1989 31' Itasca.  The old 454 Chevy has served us well but time to move on.

I know very little about Diesel engines, never owned one.    I always figured a V10 gas engine would be perfect for out next used motorhome.  Lots of them for sale but I'm told the V10 is know longer manufactured or is it.

I'm not opposed to a diesel engine but always had the idea a diesel was for folks driving lots of miles and/or at high speeds
like 75mph and over.    Our motorhome sits idle for months at a time.  Will diesel fuel go bad if stored for extended periods?

Appreciate some input

Thanks,  Jim  Genoa, IL

If a motorhome driver drives 75+ mph- he/she is a fool. I drive 60-65. Don't forget you might have to stop quickly. Diesel fuel is fine. Keep the tank topped. Most diesels are pushers and you would be amazed with how quiet they are. I'm on my 4th diesel and would not go back to gasser.

We got our first diesel pusher after climbing I-70 to Eisenhower Tunnel at about 20 mph in our Chevy 454 Class C. About half way up the mountain, Jerry announced that we were getting a DP.  ;D  We did and are now enjoying our second one.  We go off for a few months at a time, but the motorhome also sits for several months at a time.  As long as you keep the tank full condensation doesn't have a chance to form in the tank and ruin the fuel.  The same is true, by the way, of gasoline.  Always store a motorhome with a full tank.

We seldom drive even 70 mph.  More like 60 mph.  Except in California and some other states where we're limited to 55 mph because of towing and three axles.

ArdraF

We drive to Florida in the winter.    When we are on I-65 I always warn my wife, "here comes another old guesser driving
80 mph."  I drive my 454 between 55 and 60 even though it will go much faster. 

Yes, getting the thing stopped quickly is something that is always on my mind.

The 1989 Itasca is our third motorhome.  The other 2 had Dodge 360s.
Jim

I must be the fool then :'( I drive whatever the speed limit is., but back to your question, gas or diesel? if you ever drive a diesel, you will probably answer that question for yourself. happy hunting.

Nothing wrong with a gas chassis coach or the V10 engine. V10's are still made, but not used except in heavier vehicles such as the Ford F53 motorhome chassis. And it's a good engine even if it was out of production - the aftermarket and Ford will be supporting them with parts for many, many years to come.

A diesel comes into its own on heavier rigs, say above 26,000 lbs, where a gas engine has difficulty providing enough power in usable RPM ranges. But smaller diesels are becoming available too, e.g. the Mercedes V6 diesel in the Sprinter van chassis. And of course the diesels in GM and Ford pick-up trucks too.

If you don't use your coach a lot, the biggest drawback to a diesel pusher is the higher upfront cost and generally more expensive ongoing maintenance. Based on what little you have told us about your RV usage, a gas motorhome is probably a better choice for you. A late model Ford or Workhorse gas chassis is so far superior to your 1989 Chevy P30 chassis that you will be in heaven!

Well, if you're a flatlander like me and you go to the mountains once in a while you are in pretty good shape with that V10.

Now, if you are in the mountains most of the time you realize that where you really want to be is over the next mountain. And, when you go over that mountain you realize that you really want to be over the next mountain tomorrow. You need a diesel.

If, on the other hand, you wake up and see nothing but corn and soy beans for a couple of days, you probably should have a V10. And, if you drive 300 miles and see nothing but wheat fields, then the V10 is still OK. Now, if you drive another 300 miles and find yourself in West Texas, and there ain't even a cow around, you may start thinking, should I have a V10 or a diesel?

Well, a gas horsepower moves exactly the same amount of weight as a diesel horsepower. The Ford V10 and GM 8.1L V8 both produce well over 300 hp, so usually have as much power available as many diesels.  The difference is that the gas engine has to make a lot of RPMs to generate the same amount of power as the low RPM diesel, and many drivers are uncomfortable doing that.

Another difference that is that the diesel nearly always had a 5 or 6 speed, heavy duty transmission, but until about 2002 the gas engines were typically saddled with a 4 speed pickup truck tranny that really didn't do a great job of matching the engine to the load. Starting with the Workhorse w-series chassis (late 2001), 5 and 6 speed trannys were employed that made a huge difference. Ford upgraded their tranny a couple years later.  If jglass is looking at post-2002 coaches, he will probably have an excellent tranny. If earlier than that, most diesels will outperform gas engines with the same hp rating because they have a superior transmission (typically an Allison 6 speed auto).

I live 60 miles West of Chicago in farm country so I'm no doubt a "flat lander".    We take I-65 to Florida to avoid the
hills around Chatanooga and the traffic in Atlanta.  According to my GPS going through Alabama is only 50 miles further so we sit back and enjoy the ride.

I drove a 25' Champion motorhome with a 4 barrel, 360CI Dodge to Colorado 3 times to go skiing.  I never gave the engine more than 3/4 throttle climbing the mountains.    Two hundred yards from the tunnel entrance I shifted to 2nd gear (Manually) for the remainder of the grade.    My current 454 Chevy would blow that Dodge 360 clean off the road.

I have yet to put my 454 into passing gear, the 360 Dodge the same way.  I just nurse them up hill and the rig runs as fast as it can without being stressed.

Good to hear the V-10 is still a viable choice and the Chevy vortec.  Spoke with a guy with an RV for sale tonight and he said the Chevy vortec is better than the V-10.    The vortec must be the 502 CI V8.

Thanks, enjoy all the replies,  Jim

I have owned several gassers and now have a diesel. I drive my diesel about 62mph and average a decent 8.2mpg according to my display, I love the power in the mountains, My MH sets in the winter with a full tank of fuel and a biocide added. Only you can make the decision. I will never go back to a gasser. Drive both and then decide.

Our last RV was a 32 foot Class A with a Ford V-10 and our current coach is a 43 foot Class A DP. In all honesty, I don't see much difference in hill-climbing performance - maybe 5 MPH - and we live out west so we're often climbing/descending 6% grades. It's important to note that our 43-footer is a heck of a lot heavier than our gas MH was. It's also more comfortable to drive and a lot quieter - especially when climbing hills - the benefits of air-ride suspension and the engine being 40 feet behind you vs. right next to you.

This is also our first DP so I understand your concerns. Like Gary said, they do cost more to buy and maintain but ours isn't breaking the bank. It's almost an apples to oranges comparison - you just can't get a MH this size with a Ford V-10 (or with any other gas engine that I'm aware of). For what it's worth, we were very happy with the Ford V-10 in our last MH. It was about as trouble-free an engine as you could hope for and It got a steady 9 MPG year after year. Our DP is averaging 6.8 MPG towing a 4800 lb Acura MDX. I can only hope that this Cummins engine holds up as well as the Ford did. (And by the way, I'm a 60 MPH guy in the MH)

Kev

I enjoy reading these gas vs diesel threads. My MH is gas and my only diesel is a 1995 tractor to supplement a gas powered 1953 tractor. I would guess that these two engines mirror some of the power characteristics discussed when applied to motor homes. In my always humble opinion, the sum of the differences between the two is not as clear cut as the partisans of each would leave you to believe.

Personally, neither engine fuel would be a significant deal breaker. People often say how quiet diesel pushers are, but it'd be hard to imagine something quieter than my gasser is on the road. Conversations are held at normal levels; wind noise is more of a factor. Diesel fans, I am told, conveniently forget the heat that permeates the bed room upon engine shut down.

I think the OP will find that once he selects the overall length of the MH he buys, the engine fuel choice will have been made at the manufacturing level.

I prefer gas over all as a fuel because, unlike diesel, it evaporates cleanly and the smell goes away more quickly. Gas is sold more places and I like refueling where I only have to dodge harried, iPhone distracted soccer moms in cars as opposed to dodging sleep-deprived professional drivers who keep two sets of log books.  LOL

Good observations, Dan23!  Those that say diesels are quieter are talking about pushers, and pushers seem quieter solely because the engine is further away form the occupants. And the "doghouse" step in a diesel pusher merely moves to the rear instead of the front.

Gas engine chassis are almost invariably front engine and leaf spring suspension, so much of the pro & con is derived from those differences rather than the engine type.

Dan, I hope I didn't come across as being partisan toward diesel pushers simply because we own one - especially for the OP's benefit. I really try to provide objective answers to folks who are asking questions about issues I have some experience with.

We have owned two gas motorhomes over the past 18 years and they were great coaches that met our family's needs/wants at the time. As those things changed, however, so did our RVs. I must (respectfully) disagree on a couple of points though. Like you, we always felt that our gas motorhomes were quiet enough while driving down the road - certainly quiet enough to hold a normal conversation. When we took delivery of our current MH, however, we couldn't believe how much quieter it was - just on the open road. This is primarily due to the proximity of the engine in relation to the occupants. And the engine-noise difference when climbing 6% grades, or any hill for that matter, is night and day.

When we started shopping for used RVs about five years ago, I thought the same thing about the RVs length determining what kind of engine we'd end up with (gas or diesel). However, I found 22 foot MHs with diesel engines (Safari Trek) and several 38 footers with gas engines. I think when you get close to either end of the length spectrum, what you said is accurate but the middle-ground is wide open.

I never thought about the heat-soaking issue you mentioned. I'd be interested in hearing from owners of diesel pushers, whose bedrooms are over the engine compartment, if that's an issue for them. I suppose in the winter it might be a good thing. Our bedroom is in front of the engine compartment, so we've never noticed it.

I think these are good things to discuss and I hope the OP finds it helpful. (After all, that's what forums are for - right?)

Kev

jglass said:

I live 60 miles West of Chicago in farm country so I'm no doubt a "flat lander".    We take I-65 to Florida to avoid the
hills around Chatanooga and the traffic in Atlanta.  According to my GPS going through Alabama is only 50 miles further so we sit back and enjoy the ride.

I drove a 25' Champion motorhome with a 4 barrel, 360CI Dodge to Colorado 3 times to go skiing.  I never gave the engine more than 3/4 throttle climbing the mountains.    Two hundred yards from the tunnel entrance I shifted to 2nd gear (Manually) for the remainder of the grade.    My current 454 Chevy would blow that Dodge 360 clean off the road.
I have yet to put my 454 into passing gear, the 360 Dodge the same way.  I just nurse them up hill and the rig runs as fast as it can without being stressed.

Good to hear the V-10 is still a viable choice and the Chevy vortec.  Spoke with a guy with an RV for sale tonight and he said the Chevy vortec is better than the V-10.    The vortec must be the 502 CI V8.

Thanks, enjoy all the replies,  Jim

Click to expand...

FYI the Chevy/Workhorse Vortex 8.1L is 496CI.

Diesel fans, I am told, conveniently forget the heat that permeates the bed room upon engine shut down.

Click to expand...

 
I suspect a lot might depend on the quality of the build under the bed and over the engine.  I've heard some people complain about both heat and fumes and those often have turned out to be where the bed is directly over the engine.  You pull up the bed platform and look at the engine.

Our previous bed was directly over the engine, but it had an engine cover with a good gasket around the closure.  There was a nice storage area for blankets and comforters so it was very clean.  We never experienced either the excessive heat or fumes I've heard others talk about and I think much of it had to do with that good cover with the gasket PLUS the bed platform.

One thing that really helps dispel engine heat is that we often open the back end behind the engine.  This really helps on an excessively hot day after a long run, especially in the desert where we do most of our driving.  Jerry even did this when we had gasoline engines and sometimes at home when we pull into the garage.

ArdraF

ArdraF said:

We got our first diesel pusher after climbing I-70 to Eisenhower Tunnel at about 20 mph in our Chevy 454 Class C. About half way up the mountain, Jerry announced that we were getting a DP.  ;D  We did and are now enjoying our second one.  We go off for a few months at a time, but the motorhome also sits for several months at a time.  As long as you keep the tank full condensation doesn't have a chance to form in the tank and ruin the fuel.  The same is true, by the way, of gasoline.  Always store a motorhome with a full tank.

We seldom drive even 70 mph.  More like 60 mph.  Except in California and some other states where we're limited to 55 mph because of towing and three axles.

ArdraF

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the problem with this post is  its a falasie that too many people listen to.Just because u go and buy a diesel pusher it certainly does not guarantee you will have some sort of super power and now going to be able to go any faster through the Eisenhower tunnel than the 454 classC
I see way too many underpowered diesel pushers out there . Many many of the units in the 94.95.96.97.98 era were pathetic for power using the ISB 210,230,250 HP motors and some ISC 250HP units etc etc. There are many many great gasser units out there that have good power per weight ratio and are a lot cheaper to buy and much nicer than a lot of entrelevel or old diesel pushers. Obviously if your needing a 38ft and larger multislide unit diesel will be the only thing available and really the only viable alternative but don't be FOOLED just because it says diesel.There are way way too many diesel pushers out there that are poorly powered
or barely adaquitly powered. Good example of what iam saying is this.Take  a new 360Hp ISB 6.7 in a 38-40ft diesel pusher.test drive this baby on flat ground,no water,no fuel,no goods,no toad no nothing.thing drives like a dream,decent power,super quite etc
NOW  REALITY  Add full fuel,water,dishes,food,personal items,tools, unneed crap we all carry  etc. add a toad and  add in a mountain pass and this dream machine turns into a 20 MPH dog

Engine heat in the bedroom is a non-problem.  Over our engine is a very heavy firedoor that seals completely when closed.  It even has latches.  When open, it gives full access to the top of the engine, but when closed no heat is noticed in the bedroom.

like I said before, find the floor plan you like(gary alway's say's that..and is right)and then drive both if u can. then you can make a good informed choice, not just what other people think. after we drove a class a gas, then the diesel, I would never go back, but that is just me. you will make the payments, and will have to live with that..good luck.

Ned said:

Engine heat in the bedroom is a non-problem.  Over our engine is a very heavy firedoor that seals completely when closed.  It even has latches.  When open, it gives full access to the top of the engine, but when closed no heat is noticed in the bedroom.

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your one of few then because iam on my forth DP MH and everyone one of them have engine heat in the bedroom. not terrible but there is some heat.Actually works better when traveling in cooler weather through the mountain passes