Attacking RV leaks-- at the manufacturing level

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I doubt if you removed the vents off of the roof and still leaving the A/C and room vents up there you would ever see and difference in fuel mileage when even a slant nose front end doesn't really increase mileage by enough to justify the loss of interior room.

there already are several high end rigs the "Hide" all the roof ugliness  behind a raised sidewall skirt and then gutter off all the water.
but,  that visual skirt idea may create a whole new leak source.

the antidote to the best engineering intentions has always been time, weather and human error.
 
At an annual conference for suppliers and customers I attended years ago, a young supervisor stood up and demanded recognition during a supplier VP presentation. He then said, "I have been fighting lightning protection devices that failed. Why don't you supply us with devices that work every time?" The VP smiled and responded, "Son, if I could do that I'd have truckloads of them parked outside right now." Of course, the crowd roared with laughter.

Dan, the only thing missing is that you can't hear the laughter.

Stating a well known problem, and the insisting that it is a solution, will only get your butt kicked out of your bosses office. Doing it too often may get you banned from the office and ignored in the future.

Do you have any specifics?
 
Quillback 424 said:
At an annual conference for suppliers and customers I attended years ago, a young supervisor stood up and demanded recognition during a supplier VP presentation. He then said, "I have been fighting lightning protection devices that failed. Why don't you supply us with devices that work every time?" The VP smiled and responded, "Son, if I could do that I'd have truckloads of them parked outside right now." Of course, the crowd roared with laughter.

Dan, the only thing missing is that you can't hear the laughter.

Stating a well known problem, and the insisting that it is a solution, will only get your butt kicked out of your bosses office. Doing it too often may get you banned from the office and ignored in the future.

Do you have any specifics?
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Sheesh.
 
TonyDtorch said:
I doubt if you removed the vents off of the roof and still leaving the A/C and room vents up there you would ever see and difference in fuel mileage when even a slant nose front end doesn't really increase mileage by enough to justify the loss of interior room.

there already are several high end rigs the "Hide" all the roof ugliness  behind a raised sidewall skirt and then gutter off all the water.
but,  that visual skirt idea may create a whole new leak source.

the antidote to the best engineering intentions has always been time, weather and human error.
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Sometimes I wonder whether people even read posts they respond to.
 
Dan23 said:
One more thing. I said:

Removing all the protrusions from the roof will make the RV more aerodynamically "clean" and improve gas mileage. They would also look better, aiding sales.
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sorry...That is what I read.....

the undercarriage A/C idea was tried by the engineers and it doesn't work that well and it decreases the cargo area.
at this stage of rv air conditioner technology, they  just seem to work better out in the open.

Dan:
you are right about everything you said and are probably one of the smartest people I've ever seen on the internet....okay.
 
The problem I see with that is I also sign off as DAN,, my name,,I sure don't want the load of "The smartest guy I've ever seen on the internet" on my shoulders.>>>Dan
 
utahclaimjumper said:
The problem I see with that is I also sign off as DAN,, my name,,I sure don't want the load of "The smartest guy I've ever seen on the internet" on my shoulders.>>>Dan
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Sorry, I missed your sign off. My very bad. I guess I don't read completely either. LOL
 
why is it I've seen many newer membraned  roofed rigs for sale online with the leak damage disclosed in the selling description , is it the TPO or the structure or just the workmanship
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Personally, I believe it is the workmanship (those are mostly less expensive models) coupled with owner neglect. Seldom does the RV dealer prepare the buyer for the maintenance needs of that new RV, and few people think much about a roof until it leaks. Even in a site-built house.

I will reiterate my opinion: the leakage occurs around the edges, not through the material itself. EPDM doesn't leak unless cut, same for TPO. And if you read for awhile here, you will find quite a few complaints about roof leaks on coaches with fiberglass roofs too (mine included). Caulk doesn'tneed a lot of maintenance, but it needs some regardless of the roof material.
 
Yesterday we looked at two new +/- 30 foot Class As, MSRPs about $120k and in one, my wife discovered the bed was wet from (surprise) a water leak. If I go to any show or dealership and look at new RVs, I can always find one that is leaking water. Perhaps there are certain manufacturers that you will never find a new RV leaking, but industry-standard construction practices open the opportunity for leaks.
 
Gary RV Roamer said:
Seldom does the RV dealer prepare the buyer for the maintenance needs of that new RV,
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could it be that's the real reason motorhomes come with a ladder on them ?  :)
 
You are going to have a hard time getting the manufactures to change how the do things. here are materials available and processes to make an RV almost maintenance free. You might not like the added cost but it could be done.
One of my pet peeves is the total lack of corrosion protection on all the coaches I have looked at.
Bill 
 
WILDEBILL308 said:
You are going to have a hard time getting the manufactures to change how the do things. here are materials available and processes to make an RV almost maintenance free. You might not like the added cost but it could be done.
One of my pet peeves is the total lack of corrosion protection on all the coaches I have looked at.
Bill
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The best anti-corrosion may be to go south before salt season. Recently I nixed the purchase of an RV because it had been driven in salt.

No doubt changing an industry is difficult. Pointing out an issue is a good first step, IMO. An RVer I know liked to point out and question the use of plastic brackets to hold drawer slides because they break. Recent RVs I've looked at now use metal brackets that won't break. Constant constructive criticism of always putting the TV up overhead of the driver and passenger seats in motor homes has resulted in more TVs now offered in other locations so it's more comfy to watch.

One poster here in this thread asked for specifics. I think my original post was specific enough.
 
Constant constructive criticism of always putting the TV up overhead of the driver and passenger seats in motor homes has resulted in more TVs now offered in other locations so it's more comfy to watch.
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LOL. Manufacturers know well that anything concerning the customer's tv habit is far more important to sales than future maintenance considerations. I once overheard a guy refusing to buy one brand of luxury coach because another brand had a tv that was 2" bigger.

Manufacturers listen, but most of what they hear has to do with comforts and features and only a small number of us lobby for actual construction quality improvements.
 
"Constant constructive criticism of always putting the TV up overhead of the driver and passenger seats in motor homes has resulted in more TVs now offered in other locations so it's more comfy to watch."
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Lol. This continues to get more humerous. What options do engineers have to place a TV in an 8 x 50 foot box? Have you considered that multiple slides, wide body MHs and 55 inch TVs may have given the engineers some additional options in the interior design process?

"One poster here in this thread asked for specifics. I think my original post was specific enough."
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I'll say it again, I don't want my black tank vent protruding under my patio awning and I do want a variety of interior models unrestricted by trying to run piping through the ceiling or through exterior walls.

Edit: Fixed quotes.
 
what's the incentive for any manufacturer engineer and build a product that would last forever ?


 
Buyers that are willing to pay extra for it.

European products are more often made that way because there is a cultural tradition of passing things down through the generations. Housing, furniture, vehicles, etc are typically built well and regular maintenance is an accepted practice. American culture is more driven by what is new and exciting and we often discard things simply because they aren't the latest style or technology. Plus, Most Americans don't want to spend time or money on preventive maintenance or repair. That leads to mostly disposable products.
 
I went back and re read the OPs first post. One thing is when you try rerouting vents and such you start cutting into storage space inside. Recently I was at a Rv show where they had a RV with no visible canopies. They were flush with the outside. When you opened the cabinet doors over the sink you only had shelves about 6" deep. Try selling that storage to the DW.
The construction techniques haven't changed much in the last 50 years. There could be a lot of technology copied from the marine and aircraft manufacturing processes.  Can you imagine a coach made out of laminated honeycomb construction made with a aramid fiber? Look at Airstream they copied the techniques from the early aviation industry. The aluminium skinned semi monocoque  trailer was revolutionary when it came out.  Can you imagine a 45ft RV weighing around 20,000 pounds instead of 45,000. Why have there been no improvements in engine and transmissions? Why are we still stuck with just a 6 speed transmissions when cars are running 8 speed transmissions that get 6% better milage than the same car with a 6 speed.
OK end of rant drove from Amarillo to Fort Worth today and moved the flag back to the house.
Bill
 
Gary RV Roamer said:
Buyers that are willing to pay extra for it.

European products are more often made that way because there is a cultural tradition of passing things down through the generations.
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yes, a 20 year old Mercedes is likely still a good car,...but it doesn't get the same respect as a 2014 Mercedes..

ever notice when you pull into a RV park,  the new rigs get the up front spots.
 
Hello everyone I am new to RVing just got brand new Kodiak 292 toy hauler 4 months ago and have had nothing but problems leak after leak malemine countertops and all the cheap details I overlooked with the excitement of getting my trailer.  Now I have a pile of leaks which could end up being mold, and my youngest daughter has a terminal illness we cant have the mold issues and we don't have forever  both manufacturer and dealer issue's.  like not having insulation in front wall where the sales pamphlet says there is and the manual completely contradicts this.  plus leaking windows will the insulation be at risk? any advice on how to get out of the trailer without loosing a lot of money?
 
miklos43 said:
Hello everyone I am new to RVing just got brand new Kodiak 292 toy hauler 4 months ago and have had nothing but problems leak after leak malemine countertops and all the cheap details I overlooked with the excitement of getting my trailer.  Now I have a pile of leaks which could end up being mold, and my youngest daughter has a terminal illness we cant have the mold issues and we don't have forever  both manufacturer and dealer issue's.  like not having insulation in front wall where the sales pamphlet says there is and the manual completely contradicts this.  plus leaking windows will the insulation be at risk? any advice on how to get out of the trailer without loosing a lot of money?
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Thank you, miklos43, for your post verifying the careless design (and build) practices leading to your brand new leaking RV. It amazes me people post you-can't-do-that opinions supporting the status quo on such an easily solvable problem that stems from nothing more or less than that's-the-way-we-do-it industry practices. Their protestations don't warrant specific refutations as your post clearly demonstrates. Nothing different about some posters here on the RVforum than anywhere else on the Internet; every forum has 'em.

Sorry, but I can't suggest how to get out of your purchase without a loss of money. Start calmly and politely with the dealer, and if he won't or can't fix it, well, then a lawyer may be your best option. Hope that helps you.
 
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