The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??

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Stan Birch

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Feb 20, 2009
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Newmarket, Ontario
Prompted by Tom's  How not to sing any national anthem , although I still have a few Welsh genes in my structure, got me to reflecting upon what has happened within our society over the past 50 years. :eek:

After the all time 1965 wonder: Sound of Music, what of any significance has actually transpired in the music world since that time??

Andrew Lloyd Webber?? Please . . . No!!

I am certain that all of my kids really hate me, and are trying to get even by continuously buying us front-row seats in Toronto Andrew Lloyd Webber concerts !!  ;D Yuk!! Talk about a failed effort  social engineering!!

The music of the 40s was wonderful, much like the music of the 50s and 60s but then the inevitable Law of Entropy took over. Within the music world, what of significance has happened over the past 50 years?? Nothing!!

And while Tom asserts How not to sing any national anthem; although not denying my rich Welsh heritage, I am confronted with a similar problem in our small community of about 20 churches who have all sent their pianos and organs to the scrap heap, merely because there is no one left to play them. ::). Musical instruments have new been replaced by with non-musical I, IV, V strummers.  :'(
 
8Muddypaws said:
Plenty has happened.  Sorry you missed it.  It wasn't Roseanne Barr.

Fortunately, I did miss it! It was pretty much ALL gruesome! What did I miss??

I well remember the years of my early organ studies; something like I have never experienced before nor since. As I played Bach's music, hour-after-hour, day-after-day, year-after-year, our souls/spirits eventually became inextricably and inseperably intertwined! An absolutely awesome experience which continues to this day!

Whenever I play His music, I am always hyperaware that I am always playing a three-way conversation between: Me, Bach, and his God!! In all of my 70 years, I've never experienced anything more satisfying and exhilarating!
 
8Muddypaws said:
This is already pointless. Enjoy your rant.

When you say "pointless" I would presume that you are referring to your reluctance to express your personal point of view. And that's unfortunate in a Forum where divergent opinions tend to be welcomed!

For sure; if you have something to say, then say it', with the full assurance that I am probably the last person anyone on this forum who would choose to tolerate an ultra opinionated slug like me!

In all sincerity, I have presented my opinions. And instead of hearing a mere resigned admission of defeat, it would be really great to hear your perspective on the subject! 

 
I well remember the years of my early organ studies;

I remember knocking on friends' doors on Saturday and asking their Moms "Is Johnny coming out to play?", only to be told "Sorry, Johnny is practicing piano all day today". We didn't own, nor could we afford, a piano and I sure miss that experience whenever I attempt to play my electronic keyboard.
 
I think the music of today is awesome. Katy Perry, Eminem, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, the list is endless. Most everyone I know thinks the only good music that was made came out when they were 15 years old. Every thing since then has been junk. These people are only cheating themselves.
 
Stan, maybe some "opposing views" and some curiosity ...

Andrew Lloyd Webber?? Please . . . No!!

Help me out here; What's "wrong" with Andrew Lloyd Weber's work? I enjoy most of his music, and wish I had a small fraction of his composition/creative abilities.

The music of the 40s was wonderful ...

One of the older players in our uke band perceives that post-40's music is "rock and roll", and she dislikes rock & roll. It makes for some interesting discussion when we introduce "new" numbers to our portfolio.

... in our small community of about 20 churches who have all sent their pianos and organs to the scrap heap, merely because there is no one left to play them.

Interesting observation Stan. I grew up attending one of the numerous Welsh chapels in our village  (three times on Sunday). The hymn singing was indescribable, and the pipe organ (see photo) was an incredible instrument. Once a year the congregations of the various chapels (different denominations) got together for a "gymanfa ganu" (festival of hymn singing).

Musical instruments have new been replaced by with non-musical I, IV, V strummers.

Aye, but we try. While being interviewed by a Bay Area news organization, I was asked what playing (strumming) the ukulele had brought to me. My reply: "I've sung a cappella all my life, and now I'm finally able to accompany myself on an instrument".

Edit: FWIW that's me in the photo with Ozzie Morris, the organist. My Dad snapped the pic from the balcony, and I scanned the print years later.
 

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One thing I've noticed over the years, Stan, is that although most (not all) current performers in the rock (or worse) field are (to me) unlistenable, there is some (far from all) very nice music coming from whoever wrote some of that stuff -- stuff that (I'm dated, but...) Percy Faith, Robert Goulet, etc. or even The Carpenters, would make decent for my listening.

Note that "current," as used above, means since the Beatles, for me.

I'm with Tom, wondering what's wrong with Andrew Lloyd Weber. Sure, some of his stuff is, to me, pointed in a "rock" direction, but some of his stuff (just about all of Phantom, for example) is superb.

Don't get me wrong: Bach, Beethoven, etc. are great, but so is Judy Collins, the Smothers Bros. (sometimes), Pete Seeger, Hank Williams Sr., Charley Pride, Kingston Trio, Odetta and many, many more in folk, country, bluegrass, madrigals, some jazz, show tunes, just to name some of the stuff that makes (to me) good music. There's a LOT of good stuff out there beyond the traditional classics, although I can listen to those for days, too.

But I'll add that most of the stuff that uses distorted instruments, voices yelling instead of singing, harsh stuff, overpowering bass and/or drum sounds (thud, thud), foul language and such related stuff is, for me, unlistenable -- I've actually walked out of stores that were playing some of this stuff over their PA systems, because it's hard for me to take more than a few moments of that stuff.

Obviously we each have different tastes, but the (commercial) availability of music that I can enjoy is rather broad based, but usually in the lower volume selling material rather than the "mainstream" stuff that seems to dominate the music stores.
 
Larry, I think we have similar "unlistenable" lists.
 
While their certainly is a lot of trivial music around (e.g. the I, IV, V strumming stuff), I suspect that was true even in Bach's day.  Local composers no doubt created mediocre "chamber music" for tawdry ensembles to fill the evening hours at the local gentry's hall.  There was plenty of bad opera too.  Only the very best of those times survived until today, so the crap simply got forgotten. That same filtering process continues today, though the greatly improved communications and media storage of this time may make it seem as though it lasts longer.

Andrew Lloyd Weber? I think he has written as much good stuff as Rogers & Hammerstein or the Gershwin brothers. What about Leonard Bernstein or Lerner & Lowe? Is that all crap too? I don't think so, but tastes differ. Is Maurice Ravel a bad composer because he lived in the 20th century? Is Sousa no good because he is most famous for popular marches?  Yo-Yo Ma just a hack strummer?  I could name other modern talent that will no doubt have works that survive the ages, but if you don't like their music, the argument would indeed be pointless.

My tastes are eclectic, spanning from classics to pop and country, from Bach & Beethoven to Hoagy Carmichael & Cole Porter, to Barry Manilow, Neil Diamond and Paul Simon.  In every generation there is music I don't care for, but the amazing thing to me is that each and every generation has produced new (at the time) and memorable music.  The music hasn't died at all - it thrives despite the changing times!
 
If I IV V is trivial stuff, I'd better quit learning to play blues  :(
 
Sorry, it seemed to me that you were trolling for an argument.  At any rate nobody can force you to like anything so what's the point.  But others have stepped in and made it perhaps a worthwhile conversation after all.

The circle of fifths exists because it is what most of us find pleasing to our ears.  It creates a logical and harmonious framework for emotion and lyric.  The 30-40's were all about exploring that framework with only some throwing in occasional excursions outside the wheel.  (Thelonious & Reinhart come to mind) The 50's was all about the 3 chord song.  Celtic music is hopelessly locked into I-IV-V. 

If you actually listen to classical music like I do you'd hear the same I-IV-V going on in multiple layers.  It's woven into a complex tapestry but if you listen you'll find it.  At any rate you'll feel it when it resolves back to root.

Want to hear what happens when those rules get ripped to shreds?  Listen to some Alan Holdsworth.  Not predictable, not your run of the mill 'strummer', and I know you're gonna hate it.  But you won't ever forget it.  Alan is only one of many exploring the outer frontiers of alternative modes.  The really weird stuff gets off into micro-tunings that hurt my ears, but someone likes it.

If anything this is a golden age of music.  The kids who are studying music today are doing so because they love it, not because their parents force it upon them.  My grandson is quite obsessive about his music and plays French horn, trumpet and mellophone at a philharmonic level.  (He also plays piano & guitar.)  He's been principle horn in the Phil for 3 years, as well as composing and scoring.  At 16 years of age he's performed in Spain, Bosnia, Germany, France, several Russian states and all over the US.  He only likes classical music and hates jazz (but there's hope for him yet). 

Let the old pianos used as instruments of child torture be chopped up for firewood!  I'd rather have 50 musicians who really love it than 500 who don't.

Among my friends there are countless gold&platinum records, dozens of grammys, an educational foundation based upon a song, countless awards, royalties like you wouldn't believe, and some really good music.  Most of it I-IV-V too!

IMHO if you can't find music you like today maybe the problem is not the music. 
 
Muddypaws, you must be very proud of your grandson. I was in total awe reading your message.

A friend and colleague used to play in the NY Symphony some years before I got to know him. We commuted together for a couple of years, and we joined a Barbershop chorus together. He truly was a talented musician and singer, and played in some local bands. I could only admire his musical talents.
 
A choral conductor friend of mine is fond of remarking that there has been no improvement in the quality of music since 1750, only changes in taste.

The folk revival of the 60s and 70s ushered in the idea of musical performance as a means of entertaining one's self, and so we had a plethora of chord organs, banjos from Sears, and Big Note music books.  Karaoke now occupies a similar space.

Live music has been in decline since the 1930s as technological replacements of various kinds of arrived.  Last weekend my band played 9 half-hour sets over two days at an outdoor festival that had attendance of over 1000.  We got $0 from the venue and around $100 in tips.  Not enough to cover 5 people's travel expenses, but hey we got to park for free in an alfalfa field with no water, no electricity, and a few dozen other RVs and tents.  We do it because we enjoy it but will never achieve the mastery that we would if it were a full time job. 
 
I am indeed.  He's an awesome kid.  Living proof that music has not died, despite what Don McClean and the OP have to say about it.

I tried barbershop for a very short while but I couldn't handle the late nights, the drinking, the wild groupies.....

Jammer,

Sounds familiar.  No money to be made in live performance anymore.  But we do it anyway.  Just because.  Next week I'll be doing 3 days of 2 hour 'round robins', one with the person who owns the very first recording ever made of Bob Dylan.  She paid him $50 to play harmonica.

There's lots of money being made, but the best new music is not what's making it.  Clear Channel is the devil incarnate.  Nothing is more frustrating than hearing the same loop 8 times a day, on 50 different stations. 

What's the difference between a country and jazz musicians?  One plays 3 chords (and the truth) for 10,000 people and the other plays 10,000 chords for 3.  (I collect musician jokes)

I'm fan of both Howard Alden and Kenny Chesney, and lots in between.  (I've opened for Howard a couple of times in my dark past.  Now THAT was a humbling experience.). Still waiting for Kenny's call.  LOL

I just realized that I've been listening to Alden & VanEps (13 Strings) for the last 20 minutes!  If only I could play any of that.
 
I failed to mention an interesting 'happening' with my colleague. He and I flew on a short business trip and had breakfast with some 'new' colleagues. During casual chat, one of the guys mentioned that he played trumpet, and my colleague was on it. From that simple discussion, they formed Full Spectrum Jazz, a 27-piece jazz band in Silicon Valley.

They cut their first CD within a year or so. I recall the day that an excited bari sax player pulled out the 'gold' disc from that first recording, and popped it in a CD player for me to listen to. Since we were in my car, I was crossing my fingers that the CD player didn't chew up their gold disc  :eek:

18 years later, the band is still going, although they're down to 18 members, and a lot of familiar names/faces have disappeared. Meanwhile, my colleague is back in NY, too far to commute to band practice.
 
Tom said:
I remember knocking on friends' doors on Saturday and asking their Moms "Is Johnny coming out to play?", only to be told "Sorry, Johnny is practicing piano all day today". We didn't own, nor could we afford, a piano and I sure miss that experience whenever I attempt to play my electronic keyboard.

That's all there was in those days: no TV, no internet; just a rickety old piano with a cracked sounding board. Only one neighbour in the entire area had a TV; and were their kids ever popular!!  ;)

My mother was the guardian of my music education, always standing behind me with a wooden ruler while I was practicing. Whenever I stopped practicing, I experienced 12" of wrath being applied to my shoulders.  ;D
 
We were too poor to own a piano, even one with a cracked sound board. This was my musical debut, and the only 'instrument' I recall owning, except for a harmonica some years later.
 

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