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Author Topic: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??  (Read 9753 times)

Stan Birch

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The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« on: July 28, 2014, 09:15:13 PM »
Prompted by Tom's  How not to sing any national anthem , although I still have a few Welsh genes in my structure, got me to reflecting upon what has happened within our society over the past 50 years. :o

After the all time 1965 wonder: Sound of Music, what of any significance has actually transpired in the music world since that time??

Andrew Lloyd Webber?? Please . . . No!!

I am certain that all of my kids really hate me, and are trying to get even by continuously buying us front-row seats in Toronto Andrew Lloyd Webber concerts !!  ;D Yuk!! Talk about a failed effort  social engineering!!

The music of the 40s was wonderful, much like the music of the 50s and 60s but then the inevitable Law of Entropy took over. Within the music world, what of significance has happened over the past 50 years?? Nothing!!

And while Tom asserts How not to sing any national anthem; although not denying my rich Welsh heritage, I am confronted with a similar problem in our small community of about 20 churches who have all sent their pianos and organs to the scrap heap, merely because there is no one left to play them. ::). Musical instruments have new been replaced by with non-musical I, IV, V strummers.  :'(
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 07:35:01 AM by Stan Birch »
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8Muddypaws

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Re: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 09:34:14 PM »
Plenty has happened.  Sorry you missed it.  It wasn't Roseanne Barr.
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Stan Birch

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Re: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 10:12:38 PM »
Plenty has happened.  Sorry you missed it.  It wasn't Roseanne Barr.

Fortunately, I did miss it! It was pretty much ALL gruesome! What did I miss??

I well remember the years of my early organ studies; something like I have never experienced before nor since. As I played Bach's music, hour-after-hour, day-after-day, year-after-year, our souls/spirits eventually became inextricably and inseperably intertwined! An absolutely awesome experience which continues to this day!

Whenever I play His music, I am always hyperaware that I am always playing a three-way conversation between: Me, Bach, and his God!! In all of my 70 years, I've never experienced anything more satisfying and exhilarating!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 10:48:44 PM by Stan Birch »
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8Muddypaws

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 11:11:13 PM »
This is already pointless.  Enjoy your rant.
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Stan Birch

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 12:09:18 AM »
This is already pointless. Enjoy your rant.

When you say "pointless" I would presume that you are referring to your reluctance to express your personal point of view. And that's unfortunate in a Forum where divergent opinions tend to be welcomed!

For sure; if you have something to say, then say it', with the full assurance that I am probably the last person anyone on this forum who would choose to tolerate an ultra opinionated slug like me!

In all sincerity, I have presented my opinions. And instead of hearing a mere resigned admission of defeat, it would be really great to hear your perspective on the subject! 

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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 12:27:35 AM »
Quote
I well remember the years of my early organ studies;

I remember knocking on friends' doors on Saturday and asking their Moms "Is Johnny coming out to play?", only to be told "Sorry, Johnny is practicing piano all day today". We didn't own, nor could we afford, a piano and I sure miss that experience whenever I attempt to play my electronic keyboard.
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SeilerBird

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 04:32:53 AM »
I think the music of today is awesome. Katy Perry, Eminem, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, the list is endless. Most everyone I know thinks the only good music that was made came out when they were 15 years old. Every thing since then has been junk. These people are only cheating themselves.
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2014, 08:16:34 AM »
Stan, maybe some "opposing views" and some curiosity ...

Quote
Andrew Lloyd Webber?? Please . . . No!!

Help me out here; What's "wrong" with Andrew Lloyd Weber's work? I enjoy most of his music, and wish I had a small fraction of his composition/creative abilities.

Quote
The music of the 40s was wonderful ...

One of the older players in our uke band perceives that post-40's music is "rock and roll", and she dislikes rock & roll. It makes for some interesting discussion when we introduce "new" numbers to our portfolio.

Quote
... in our small community of about 20 churches who have all sent their pianos and organs to the scrap heap, merely because there is no one left to play them.

Interesting observation Stan. I grew up attending one of the numerous Welsh chapels in our village  (three times on Sunday). The hymn singing was indescribable, and the pipe organ (see photo) was an incredible instrument. Once a year the congregations of the various chapels (different denominations) got together for a "gymanfa ganu" (festival of hymn singing).

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Musical instruments have new been replaced by with non-musical I, IV, V strummers.

Aye, but we try. While being interviewed by a Bay Area news organization, I was asked what playing (strumming) the ukulele had brought to me. My reply: "I've sung a cappella all my life, and now I'm finally able to accompany myself on an instrument".

Edit: FWIW that's me in the photo with Ozzie Morris, the organist. My Dad snapped the pic from the balcony, and I scanned the print years later.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 11:45:20 AM by Tom »
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Larry N.

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2014, 08:44:23 AM »
One thing I've noticed over the years, Stan, is that although most (not all) current performers in the rock (or worse) field are (to me) unlistenable, there is some (far from all) very nice music coming from whoever wrote some of that stuff -- stuff that (I'm dated, but...) Percy Faith, Robert Goulet, etc. or even The Carpenters, would make decent for my listening.

Note that "current," as used above, means since the Beatles, for me.

I'm with Tom, wondering what's wrong with Andrew Lloyd Weber. Sure, some of his stuff is, to me, pointed in a "rock" direction, but some of his stuff (just about all of Phantom, for example) is superb.

Don't get me wrong: Bach, Beethoven, etc. are great, but so is Judy Collins, the Smothers Bros. (sometimes), Pete Seeger, Hank Williams Sr., Charley Pride, Kingston Trio, Odetta and many, many more in folk, country, bluegrass, madrigals, some jazz, show tunes, just to name some of the stuff that makes (to me) good music. There's a LOT of good stuff out there beyond the traditional classics, although I can listen to those for days, too.

But I'll add that most of the stuff that uses distorted instruments, voices yelling instead of singing, harsh stuff, overpowering bass and/or drum sounds (thud, thud), foul language and such related stuff is, for me, unlistenable -- I've actually walked out of stores that were playing some of this stuff over their PA systems, because it's hard for me to take more than a few moments of that stuff.

Obviously we each have different tastes, but the (commercial) availability of music that I can enjoy is rather broad based, but usually in the lower volume selling material rather than the "mainstream" stuff that seems to dominate the music stores.
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 08:56:14 AM »
Larry, I think we have similar "unlistenable" lists.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 09:23:38 AM »
While their certainly is a lot of trivial music around (e.g. the I, IV, V strumming stuff), I suspect that was true even in Bach's day.  Local composers no doubt created mediocre "chamber music" for tawdry ensembles to fill the evening hours at the local gentry's hall.  There was plenty of bad opera too.  Only the very best of those times survived until today, so the crap simply got forgotten. That same filtering process continues today, though the greatly improved communications and media storage of this time may make it seem as though it lasts longer.

Andrew Lloyd Weber? I think he has written as much good stuff as Rogers & Hammerstein or the Gershwin brothers. What about Leonard Bernstein or Lerner & Lowe? Is that all crap too? I don't think so, but tastes differ. Is Maurice Ravel a bad composer because he lived in the 20th century? Is Sousa no good because he is most famous for popular marches?  Yo-Yo Ma just a hack strummer?  I could name other modern talent that will no doubt have works that survive the ages, but if you don't like their music, the argument would indeed be pointless.

My tastes are eclectic, spanning from classics to pop and country, from Bach & Beethoven to Hoagy Carmichael & Cole Porter, to Barry Manilow, Neil Diamond and Paul Simon.  In every generation there is music I don't care for, but the amazing thing to me is that each and every generation has produced new (at the time) and memorable music.  The music hasn't died at all - it thrives despite the changing times!
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2014, 10:04:31 AM »
If I IV V is trivial stuff, I'd better quit learning to play blues  :(
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8Muddypaws

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2014, 12:18:03 PM »
Sorry, it seemed to me that you were trolling for an argument.  At any rate nobody can force you to like anything so what's the point.  But others have stepped in and made it perhaps a worthwhile conversation after all.

The circle of fifths exists because it is what most of us find pleasing to our ears.  It creates a logical and harmonious framework for emotion and lyric.  The 30-40's were all about exploring that framework with only some throwing in occasional excursions outside the wheel.  (Thelonious & Reinhart come to mind) The 50's was all about the 3 chord song.  Celtic music is hopelessly locked into I-IV-V. 

If you actually listen to classical music like I do you'd hear the same I-IV-V going on in multiple layers.  It's woven into a complex tapestry but if you listen you'll find it.  At any rate you'll feel it when it resolves back to root.

Want to hear what happens when those rules get ripped to shreds?  Listen to some Alan Holdsworth.  Not predictable, not your run of the mill 'strummer', and I know you're gonna hate it.  But you won't ever forget it.  Alan is only one of many exploring the outer frontiers of alternative modes.  The really weird stuff gets off into micro-tunings that hurt my ears, but someone likes it.

If anything this is a golden age of music.  The kids who are studying music today are doing so because they love it, not because their parents force it upon them.  My grandson is quite obsessive about his music and plays French horn, trumpet and mellophone at a philharmonic level.  (He also plays piano & guitar.)  He's been principle horn in the Phil for 3 years, as well as composing and scoring.  At 16 years of age he's performed in Spain, Bosnia, Germany, France, several Russian states and all over the US.  He only likes classical music and hates jazz (but there's hope for him yet). 

Let the old pianos used as instruments of child torture be chopped up for firewood!  I'd rather have 50 musicians who really love it than 500 who don't.

Among my friends there are countless gold&platinum records, dozens of grammys, an educational foundation based upon a song, countless awards, royalties like you wouldn't believe, and some really good music.  Most of it I-IV-V too!

IMHO if you can't find music you like today maybe the problem is not the music. 
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2014, 12:44:27 PM »
Muddypaws, you must be very proud of your grandson. I was in total awe reading your message.

A friend and colleague used to play in the NY Symphony some years before I got to know him. We commuted together for a couple of years, and we joined a Barbershop chorus together. He truly was a talented musician and singer, and played in some local bands. I could only admire his musical talents.
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Jammer

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2014, 01:31:21 PM »
A choral conductor friend of mine is fond of remarking that there has been no improvement in the quality of music since 1750, only changes in taste.

The folk revival of the 60s and 70s ushered in the idea of musical performance as a means of entertaining one's self, and so we had a plethora of chord organs, banjos from Sears, and Big Note music books.  Karaoke now occupies a similar space.

Live music has been in decline since the 1930s as technological replacements of various kinds of arrived.  Last weekend my band played 9 half-hour sets over two days at an outdoor festival that had attendance of over 1000.  We got $0 from the venue and around $100 in tips.  Not enough to cover 5 people's travel expenses, but hey we got to park for free in an alfalfa field with no water, no electricity, and a few dozen other RVs and tents.  We do it because we enjoy it but will never achieve the mastery that we would if it were a full time job. 
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8Muddypaws

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??s
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 02:37:57 PM »
I am indeed.  He's an awesome kid.  Living proof that music has not died, despite what Don McClean and the OP have to say about it.

I tried barbershop for a very short while but I couldn't handle the late nights, the drinking, the wild groupies.....

Jammer,

Sounds familiar.  No money to be made in live performance anymore.  But we do it anyway.  Just because.  Next week I'll be doing 3 days of 2 hour 'round robins', one with the person who owns the very first recording ever made of Bob Dylan.  She paid him $50 to play harmonica.

There's lots of money being made, but the best new music is not what's making it.  Clear Channel is the devil incarnate.  Nothing is more frustrating than hearing the same loop 8 times a day, on 50 different stations. 

What's the difference between a country and jazz musicians?  One plays 3 chords (and the truth) for 10,000 people and the other plays 10,000 chords for 3.  (I collect musician jokes)

I'm fan of both Howard Alden and Kenny Chesney, and lots in between.  (I've opened for Howard a couple of times in my dark past.  Now THAT was a humbling experience.). Still waiting for Kenny's call.  LOL

I just realized that I've been listening to Alden & VanEps (13 Strings) for the last 20 minutes!  If only I could play any of that.
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2014, 03:58:34 PM »
I failed to mention an interesting 'happening' with my colleague. He and I flew on a short business trip and had breakfast with some 'new' colleagues. During casual chat, one of the guys mentioned that he played trumpet, and my colleague was on it. From that simple discussion, they formed Full Spectrum Jazz, a 27-piece jazz band in Silicon Valley.

They cut their first CD within a year or so. I recall the day that an excited bari sax player pulled out the 'gold' disc from that first recording, and popped it in a CD player for me to listen to. Since we were in my car, I was crossing my fingers that the CD player didn't chew up their gold disc  :o

18 years later, the band is still going, although they're down to 18 members, and a lot of familiar names/faces have disappeared. Meanwhile, my colleague is back in NY, too far to commute to band practice.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 04:17:41 PM by Tom »
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Stan Birch

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2014, 04:25:27 PM »
I remember knocking on friends' doors on Saturday and asking their Moms "Is Johnny coming out to play?", only to be told "Sorry, Johnny is practicing piano all day today". We didn't own, nor could we afford, a piano and I sure miss that experience whenever I attempt to play my electronic keyboard.

That's all there was in those days: no TV, no internet; just a rickety old piano with a cracked sounding board. Only one neighbour in the entire area had a TV; and were their kids ever popular!!  ;)

My mother was the guardian of my music education, always standing behind me with a wooden ruler while I was practicing. Whenever I stopped practicing, I experienced 12" of wrath being applied to my shoulders.  ;D
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2014, 04:43:39 PM »
We were too poor to own a piano, even one with a cracked sound board. This was my musical debut, and the only 'instrument' I recall owning, except for a harmonica some years later.
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8Muddypaws

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2014, 05:04:22 PM »
I've seen them more than once.  I believe some of the current members went over from Norm Benners band when he and Janice moved out of the area.  I played with the Benners for several years.  Norm's son David is one of the hottest bass players around and Janice's son Kevin is a physician/musician/crazy man extraordinaire - the founder of 'Burning Uke', AKA Dr. Sparkles.

Small world.  Where are you now?
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2014, 05:10:50 PM »
Aye, definitely a small world. The other 'founder' I mentioned was Roger Levinson; He still plays trumpet with them, and is in the videos.

Quote
Where are you now?

We moved out to the California Delta when we retired. Bought this house as our "future retirement home" while we were still working. We'd boated on the Delta since the 80's and, having this house (while we still worked) made it too easy to extend our weekends by staying over on Sunday night.
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Stan Birch

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2014, 06:01:36 PM »
Stan, maybe some "opposing views" and some curiosity ...

Help me out here; What's "wrong" with Andrew Lloyd Weber's work? I enjoy most of his music, and wish I had a small fraction of his composition/creative abilities.

Gary is suggesting pretty much the same thing when he says:"Andrew Lloyd Weber? I think he has written as much good stuff as Rogers & Hammerstein or the Gershwin brothers" just when I was about to use Rogers & Hammerstein as the antithesis of Andrew Lloyd Webber! Webber sounds sort of low key ho hum from beginning to end: nothing new or different within a show, or even from show-to-show. It just totally lacks any kind of musical originality or genius.

 Lloyd Webber's genius is probably best summed up amongst many accusations of plagiarism by  Dutch composer Louis Andriessen: "There are two sorts of stealing (in music) - taking something and doing nothing with it, or going to work on what you've stolen. The first is plagiarism. Andrew Lloyd Webber has yet to think up a single note; in fact, the poor guy's never invented one note by himself!".

I have studied Rogers' music in depth, and never cease to be amazed by his absolute genius: originality, diversity, and awesomely complex chord structures.

So . . . how do the critics compare the two:

Academy Awards: Rogers 15; Webber 1;

Tony Awards: Rogers 35; Webber 7

Emmy Awards: Rogers 2; Webber 0

Pulitzer Prize: Rogers 2; Webber 0 (Oklahoma! and South Pacific)

One of the older players in our uke band perceives that post-40's music is "rock and roll", and she dislikes rock & roll. It makes for some interesting discussion when we introduce "new" numbers to our portfolio.

I started to play some of the old rock and roll standards from the 50s, over ten years ago after getting a Yamaha keyboard; and speaking of I, IV, V, I was amazed at how simple it all was; an observation shared with MuddyPaws who agrees: "The 50's was all about the 3 chord song."

Interesting observation Stan. I grew up attending one of the numerous Welsh chapels in our village  (three times on Sunday). The hymn singing was indescribable, and the pipe organ (see photo) was an incredible instrument. Once a year the congregations of the various chapels (different denominations) got together for a "gymanfa ganu" (festival of hymn singing).

Aye, but we try. While being interviewed by a Bay Area news organization, I was asked what playing (strumming) the ukulele had brought to me. My reply: "I've sung a cappella all my life, and now I'm finally able to accompany myself on an instrument".

Edit: FWIW that's me in the photo with Ozzie Morris, the organist. My Dad snapped the pic from the balcony, and I scanned the print years later.

I cannot sing a cappella! I was given a voice left over from a cigarette-smoking bull frog. So that is why I am so dependant upon musical instruments.

When I was a young fellow, just recently married I played a tenor ukulele, which was pretty much useless, because I cannot sing. So I got a guitar and learned to play it in a manner that some thought was pretty good. I know that must have been totally awesome, because my wife took my precious instrument to the next door neighbour who was conducting a garage sale, and in exchange, proudly presented me a big wad of cash: $7.00!! :o That was 40 years ago. Lesson learned: NEVER mess with she who must be obeyed. ;D
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 10:49:49 PM by Stan Birch »
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2014, 06:50:16 PM »
Interesting perspective on Andrew Lloyd Weber. I hadn't heard/seen the stuff about plagiarism.

Quote
Gary is suggesting pretty much the same thing ...

I must have read it wrong or maybe misunderstood; I thought that you and Gary had opposing views of Lloyd Weber  ???

Quote
... speaking of I, IV, V, I was amazed at how simple it all was;

There's nowt wrong with 3-chord songs per se, although there's a big difference across the wide range of wide 3-chord songs written. As for simple, that suits me fine with my lack of music theory and limited playing ability.

Quote
... I played a tenor ukulele, which was pretty much useless, because I cannot sing.

I assume that means you were strumming (chords on) the uke and therefore, without your voice, you were missing the melody. The lead guitar player for a local rock group joined our uke band last year. At the end of the first practice, I asked him how it went, and he said "I can't figure this out, and have no idea how to play this thing". The following week was quite different and, within a few weeks, he was playing stuff I didn't know could be played on a uke. He's one of the few folks in the band who can and does pick notes, and he has some solo parts in our concerts; Our Music Director and I look at each other in disbelief at what he can do picking the uke. I don't believe I've heard him sing in the band, but he has no problem picking the melody.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 01:46:50 AM by Tom »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2014, 08:24:22 PM »
I didn't take "I,IV, V strumming" as a damnation of any and all music that uses a I, IV,V chord base. Rather, a comment on the many so-called musicians who mindlessly strum the basic three-chord sequence and mumble some all-but-meaningless lyrics.  Purely a qualitative statement.  The three chord sequence is inherent in nearly all western hemisphere music - that's why oriental or Indian music sounds so strange to us European-Americans.
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2014, 09:41:06 PM »
Quote
While their certainly is a lot of trivial music around (e.g. the I, IV, V strumming stuff)

Quote
I didn't take "I,IV, V strumming" as a damnation of any and all music that uses a I, IV,V chord base.

Thanks for the clarification. Hope you can see why I was confused by the first quote above.

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The three chord sequence is inherent in nearly all western hemisphere music ...

Nearly all? I play almost no rock & roll, and I'm still learning to play blues, both genres using 3-chord progressions. I play a lot of 4-chord progressions such as I-vi-IV-V7 and I-ii-IV-V which were used in 1,000's of songs. Some of our musical experts might call these 5-chord progressions I-vi-IV-V7-I and I-ii-IV-V-I because they often return to the first chord. But, as I've said numerous times, I lack the music theory to speak with any authority; It's just what my ears tell me.

Time to return to my online music theory class.
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Tom

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2014, 09:48:23 PM »
Quote
The three chord sequence is inherent in nearly all western hemisphere music - that's why oriental or Indian music sounds so strange to us European-Americans.

An interesting comparison of Western and Indian music suggests a different reason for the latter sounding "strange" to westerners:

"Indian classical music has 7 basic notes (Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni), with five interspersed half-notes, resulting in a 12-note scale. Unlike the 12-note scale in Western music, the base frequency of the scale is not fixed, and inter-tonal gaps may also vary."

I find this mind boggling  ???
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2014, 09:57:01 PM »
Quote
.... the base frequency of the scale is not fixed, and inter-tonal gaps may also vary."

I'm reminded of one of the many parties we held at our prior home, where a rule of the house was that you didn't leave until you'd sung a song of your choice. One of my Indian-born colleagues burst into song, and his wife stared at him as if she'd never heard this stuff come out of his mouth before. It sounded really strange to me, and I put it down to too much booze. We'd already hid his car keys and decided he wasn't driving home. In retrospect, I'm wondering if he was actually singing "in tune"  ???
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 10:07:22 AM by Tom »
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2014, 10:33:28 PM »
8Muddypaws,

I'd love to come and just hang out with you for awhile.  I'm sure I would learn a lot.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2014, 10:46:29 PM »
I must have read it wrong or maybe misunderstood; I thought that you and Gary had opposing views of Lloyd Weber  ???

Perhaps . . . but no one is beyond hope.  ;)

There's nothing wrong with 3-chord songs per se, although there's a big difference across the range of wide 3-chord songs written. As for simple, that suits me fine with my lack of music theory and limited playing ability.

What's wrong with 3-cord songs?? How jealousy, envy, and all that kind of stuff??

Ever been to one of those high end restaurants that have an accomplished resident piano player?? They play songs that are ever so familiar, but they play the songs with awesome chord structures I have perhaps never heard before, but could neither duplicate nor write then down.

Can your speak Russian?? Nope. You can only speak the language you were raised in from the womb. Music is also a language; and what you can play, has a whole lot to do with the environment in which you were raised from the womb. Can I play jazz?? Nope!! I don't even understand it. At the outset, to be able to play jazz, you have to be black, and raised in Louisiana !! If you grew up in that kind of environment, you don't even need to take music lessons. Jazz just tends to pour from your fingertips from the outset.

Example: Boris Brott, conductor of the Hamilton Symphony Orchestra tells the endearing story of one day playing a piece of music he had never heard before, but he didn't know it's name. In his quest to solve the mystery, his mother revealed to him, the title of the composition, as well as the name of the composer: "That is the piece I practiced for the best part of the year while you were still in the womb"!! :o

In the same manner, having been raised in a liturgical music environment, I understand, and have learned to not only accept, but enjoy my destiny. While I might not be able to play jazz, or some of that awesome piano lounge music, I've learned that the things we seem to want most, are those things which are unattainable; and to that end, I have learned to enjoy the talent I have been given: to improvise so well and so effortlessly within my limited familiar musical environs.
Then there are the exceptions like Diana Krall, who can do anything!! Love her; love her music! She is absolutely amazing!![/quote]

The following week was quite different and, within a few weeks, he was playing stuff I didn't know could be played on a uke.

Do you not find people like that, at least a little bit annoying.  ;D
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2014, 11:18:58 PM »
LOL, I'll take that as a compliment, I guess.

I know hundreds of better musicians than I.  One of them is fairly close to you In Wisconsin.  (I assume the MN is Minnesota.....right next door, right?)

His name is John Smith.  Really!  Www.johnsmithmusic.com.  My favorite johnsmith song is 'Find Hope', followed by 'From His Window'.  Both are on his first CD.

I've met John several times and he's listened to my little songs and tells me I have an unusually cruel muse.  (I think it was the one about SIDS that got him)

I use his songs for teaching all the time.


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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2014, 11:25:17 PM »
Quote
Ever been to one of those high end restaurants that have an accomplished resident piano player??

Yes, and I've been known to spend the entire visit looking over the pianist's shoulder, wishing I could play like that. One time I did this, I missed the meal, and my wife and guest had left the restaurant before I was done watching the pianist.

Quote
Do you not find people like that, at least a little bit annoying.

Not in the least. In fact, the guitar/uke player in question is one of the most modest people I've come across.


 
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2014, 11:56:30 PM »
Yeah, a guy walked up to my desk one day and said he heard I played.  I asked him the same question and he said 'a little'.

Well, his 'little' was being one of Joe Passes primer students and having started playing professionally at the age of 12.  It took him all of 15 seconds to analyze the alternate tuning fingerstyle rip I had been working on for weeks and wrest it out of my hands & run with it.  This guy is nuts!  I've seen him play heavy metal touch system with jazz scales through a guitar synth behind a Celtic band.  (Yeah, wrap your music theory around that!) And nobody can figure out where all that sound is coming from.  It just sounds so wicked awesome! 

So much music, so little time.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2014, 11:59:55 PM »
Quote
So much music, so little time.

Isn't that a fact!
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2014, 05:05:34 AM »
An interesting comparison of Western and Indian music suggests a different reason for the latter sounding "strange" to westerners:

"Indian classical music has 7 basic notes (Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni), with five interspersed half-notes, resulting in a 12-note scale. Unlike the 12-note scale in Western music, the base frequency of the scale is not fixed, and inter-tonal gaps may also vary."

I find this mind boggling  ???
If you really want mind boggling then check out tuning a sitar. The frets are moveable.

http://www.joerizzo.com/sitar/
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2014, 06:10:21 AM »
Aye, I've read about tuning a sitar before.

Quote
The frets are moveable.

Yes, they'd have to be movable to achieve the explanation of their scale I posted
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 07:31:10 AM by Tom »
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2014, 06:57:15 AM »
Reading that article brings home the need to re-tune every time you change key. That would make it tough to change key on the fly.

"Let's play this in the key of x instead".

"OK, give me 20 minutes to re-tune; The audience will have to wait. Did you hand out the ear plugs?"
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2014, 08:26:35 AM »
Reading that article brings home the need to re-tune every time you change key. That would make it tough to change key on the fly.

"Let's play this in the key of x instead".

"OK, give me 20 minutes to re-tune; The audience will have to wait. Did you hand out the ear plugs?"
You obviously missed the Concert for Bangla Desh. Ravi and friends finished tuning up and got a large round of applause. Ravi said "Thank you. If you appreciate the tuning so much I hope you will enjoy the playing more."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9azolYtJhI
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2014, 08:55:03 AM »
I heard of the concert, but didn't watch.

Looking at different video of Ravi playing the sitar, he appears to be playing "slack key" and bending the notes. I'm intrigued enough to want to try, but the sitar is one instrument I won't be buying. In any event, I can't assume the recommended playing position; Cross legged with the sound box against the sole of one foot.

My guitar lessons start in 2 weeks; That should keep me busy practicing, in between practicing for our next uke season.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 08:59:14 AM by Tom »
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2014, 09:05:15 AM »
How about a duet for Sitar and Bagpipes?   :o
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2014, 09:15:16 AM »
Forum staffer Jim Dick used to be an Irish Piper. Maybe we could get him to come out of retirement.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2014, 09:25:41 AM »
Want to totally blow your day to smithereens?  Take a look at some of the free videos these guys have.  :  http://www.guitarcontrol.com/
They'll also take your money if you insist.   ;)
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2014, 09:43:53 AM »
Here are a couple of photos of Jim playing his bagpipes:

1. Serenading our wives while we were boondocking at Anza Borego.

2.  Entertaining attendees during an RV Forum rally in Moab.

Now we just need someone to volunteer to play the sitar.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2014, 09:52:23 AM »
How about a duet for Sitar and Bagpipes?   :o
With Yoko Ono doing the vocals ;D
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2014, 10:01:24 AM »
Tom, I thought you'd volunteer to sing.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2014, 10:29:14 AM »
Yoko and Roseanne singing harmony!  (on the positive side perhaps the pipes would drown them out?)

And that my friends takes us full circle!  We're back at Roseanne Barr where this whole thing started.  Sort of.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2014, 10:47:02 AM »
Quote
We're back at Roseanne Barr

Move on, please  :(
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2014, 10:48:39 AM »
Tom, I thought you'd volunteer to sing.
My voice has been deteriorating with age. :-[
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2014, 10:58:14 AM »
Really, mine seems to be getting better.

Or maybe my ears are getting worse?

Whatever!  It works for me.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2014, 11:24:16 AM »
Quote
I can't assume the recommended playing position; Cross legged with the sound box against the sole of one foot.

Reminds me of the many times I ate in restaurants in Japan, especially the ones where you sit cross-legged on a tatami mat. I had issues with this:

1. I couldn't cross my legs.

2. Without back support, it was a back killer.

3. If my back wasn't hurting, I'd fall over.

They must get lots of westerners with this problem because, when I knew the secret code, they'd bring me a cushion something like a stadium seat with a back. Relief! Hurry up and eat folks, I'm ready for karaoake.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2014, 10:01:52 PM »
8Muddypaws,

I ran across this thread and checked out Johnsmith's website. I found him on youtube and have been listening to him for awhile now and will be downloading some of his music now.  :)

Im a big folk music lover. My husband has an old high school friend (even after 60 years) who was a local folk singer here in the cities. Through him, I was introduced to the music of Joel Rafael and Bill Staines and try to see them whenever they come this way.

MNBlue skies, you really should check either of them out next time they come. Bill usually comes to town around this time of year. In fact he did a house concert here last weekend. He will be back again in February at Armatage School. That's a really good venue. Im hoping to go.

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2014, 05:28:36 AM »
Great thread.  I feel blessed to have been exposed to such a variety of music in my 72 years on this earth.  From the 40's, Benny Goodman, Glen Miller and many others. Remember Little Brown Jug, One Meat ball.  I learned to dance with my Mother to music by some of the best.  Thru the years many changes. The Beach Boys while a college student in Ca. The Bee Gees, Righteous Brothers,  of coarse Elvis, The stones, now Taylor Swift and some great country singers.  I like a variety of music, some more than others. On my bucket list is a Rolling Stones concert.  So, the music hasn't died. Much of todays music is still based on blues and jazz from days long gone.  I just have to listen to a new song a few times to understand the lyrics.

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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2014, 05:47:26 AM »
I have been watching music video on Vimeo, a free MTV style streaming service. I am massively impressed with the quality of the music I hear on many of these videos. Katy Perry is amazing, especially Dark Horse. Shakira is also amazing with her La La La video. Tons of great stuff on there. Too bad for the haters, you don't know what you are missing.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2014, 08:41:42 PM »
Katy Perry is just too cute!  You gotta find the one she did with the muppets!

I've seen Bill Stains at several house concerts.  Hard to keep track, there have been so many!
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2014, 08:59:06 PM »
What, pop artists don't count.   Performers like George Michael, Freddy Mercury, Donny Hathaway and Stevie Wonder didn't create music?  And groups like ABBA didn't write musicals?  Well maybe not the group.  But two of the singers, Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus teamed with Tim Rice to write Chess.  These are not plagiarizing lip syncing Milli Vanilli performers.  They write, they play and they sing.  There's some pretty awesome music that's been produced in the years since Rodgers and Hammerstein.  But as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, music is in the ear of the beholder.  If you want an example of outstanding music, check out the musical CHESS.  And listen to the words of Bohemian Rhapsody.   May not appeal to your tastes, but it's an amazing piece of work.  And don't get me wrong.  I love the old stuff.  But music hasn't died. 
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2014, 03:46:15 AM »
Katy Perry is just too cute!  You gotta find the one she did with the muppets!
You mean this one?

http://youtu.be/YHROHJlU_Ng

Yep, she is too cute.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2014, 06:20:19 AM »
Quote
Too bad for the haters, you don't know what you are missing.

Actually, we do. Distorted instruments, scratchy, yelling voices, profane lyrics (or unintelligible), and attempts to rattle anything nearby with excessive bass. Sure, there's a little bit of good stuff in there, but not much that I can stand, in the pop field. Folk, classical, opera (mostly), much of jazz, show tunes (mostly), crooner stuff (Sinatra, Crosby, etc.), country (except some of the more recent stuff that emulates rock), bluegrass, easy listening, and a lot more, are great -- even a lot of (not all) early rock, especially rock & roll. But Little Richard is an example of stuff that's hard to take.

But almost anything that is THUD, THUD, THUD on the bass, at such a high level it rattles your bones, instruments that sound as if there's a malfunction, RAP and a lot of other "modern" stuff out there.

But it's interesting that a lot of the problem I have listening to that stuff is the specific performances, since the same material by more palatable performers is often (not always) good music.

So yes, I know exactly what I'm missing, and missing it is intentional.
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2014, 09:34:49 AM »
One mans crap is another's mans treasure.   :o
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Re: The Day the Music Died: Where did all of the music go! ??
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2014, 08:40:48 PM »
Our son is studying at the Curtis Institute of Music. This is one of the premier music conservatories in the world with only 160 students. Our son aspires to play trumpet in an orchestra. So whereas orchestra music is his favorite, he listens to and appreciates all music. In turn, he has opened our minds to the different music types too. We still prefer the rock of the 60s and 70s, but now will listen to jazz and orchestral.  He loves opera too, but we find it difficult to listen to for any length of time. So yes, music enjoyment is in the ear of the listener. But regardless of whether we like the sound or not, we always appreciate the effort and talent it takes to make music. This is especially true of the two of us since neither of us plays any instruments. We even have a professional keyboard in our living room. Since our son moved out, no one here to play it. The only time it gets touched is when it gets dusted! 
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