Direcway

The only technobabble at datastormusers is from Archie, and the knowledgeable people there make sure no one believes it.  I won't compare experiences or licenses with you as I find that demeaning, but there are some things that I DO know from whence I speak.

I'm out of this conversation.

Bob:

I thought I was pretty clear.

Ned was commenting that folks need to understand that setting up an Internet dish requires some tech savvy, and I suppose he wondered why I said the datastorm forum was not an easy forum to get started with.?

My answer to him was that I have no problem learning technical aspects, but that does not mean a tech forum can ONLY operate at a high technical level.

I am getting good information here and may not even need the datastorm forum.? I am at a point in life where I can go at my own leisurely pace, and am finding plenty of framily members right here to help me along with that.

OH my, this thread is getting foolish now.

Bob commented that his message was giving him problems and I responded to the portion he directed to me.  Now Bob's thread has vanished and in its place is Ned's.

Ned I never intended to offend you, and if so I apologize. 

I guess I mistakenly thought you were saying that if I had no technical background, I should not be trying to do this.  I just felt the degree and the license would give you a indication I really was not over my head.  Was not trying to one up you or anything like that with credentials.  I am sure your tech credentials far outweigh mine and that was not at all my point.

I appreciate all the help I am getting here and do not want to jeopardize that in any way.

I will stick around for any additional help I can get.

Smoky said:

Will I have to hire an installer to realign my dish every time I travel to a new location?

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First, "Technobabble" sounds tough till you've done it a couple of times then you are surprised at how easy it is, and DataStorm makes it even easier by doing most of it for you.
As to the line quoted above,  To "install" a Satallite Uplink Transmitter (Which it is) You MUST be a certified installer per federal law and the contract between Hughs and Datastorm reflects this, However "Install" is defined as bolting it to your motor home's roof.  Not setting it up once you park (that's all done by certified set up software which DataStorm supplies) 

Tripod mounts are NOT approved by either Datastorm, Hughs or the Federal Communications Commission unless you are a certified installer

That said... There is at least one dealer who will indeed sell you a unit on a tripod mount, and teach you how to point it,  And even if you park beside me I'm not going to ask if you are a licensed installer and I don't know any FCC field engineers who have the time to go  camping (though  do know a few folks who are licensed installers)  So there if you choose a tripod mount there won't be any problem.

By the way.. I personally suggest a dual system, (two antennas, one mounted on the RV, one tripod, One television receiver and control unit)

I am currently investigating options,  One if which is designed to be portable and set up by the user, for when I go full itme.  RAY-SAT is the most interesting of all the mounted options I've seen but there is some confusion,,,, The web page tells me one thing and the voice on the phone another regarding in-motion internet access... Yes IN MOTION  Imagine having your significant other driving down the highway at 60+MPH while you are doing your internetting at DSL speeds... That is what RaySat is capable of (Actually 100+MPH speeds are no problem for it, though there are other folks on the road who may object to that speed,  They are nice folks though, they give you a formal invite to a get-together with one of their friends, attendance mandatory though)

The Raysat has no physically moving parts to wear out

John,

Not to be argumentative, but the RaySat has lots of moving parts - under the dome. Also, the $3400+ price doesn't include a receiver, modem, or installation. Of course, you'll also have to contract separately for TV/Internet access thru a provider. They also state that for both TV and Internet to operate simultaneously, both birds must be very close together, otherwise you have to make a choice between one or the other. No bird-on-a-wire here.

Considering all the up,down, and twisty-turney of driving, I can see Hughes knocking you offline quite frequently; maybe permanently for numerous signal quality violations. Unless RaySat provides some kind of 'warranty of merchantability for a specific use' I'd steer well clear of it or you may end up with a very expensive rooftop cargo carrier - and at 5+inches it won't hold much. ;D

To "install" a Satallite Uplink Transmitter (Which it is) You MUST be a certified installer per federal law and the contract between Hughs and Datastorm reflects this, However "Install" is defined as bolting it to your motor home's roof.  Not setting it up once you park (that's all done by certified set up software which DataStorm supplies)

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I believe you have it wrong John, or at least only partially correct. The certified installer must also commission the modem and get it officially registered with DW's registration server. This is true irrespective of whether it's mounted on a house, the roof of an RV, or a tripod.

Bob commented that his message was giving him problems and I responded to the portion he directed to me.  Now Bob's thread has vanished and in its place is Ned's.

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Smoky, just for clarification, Bob posted his message, then realized he didn't wish to post it because he'd misunderstood what you'd said, and asked if it could be deleted. I obliged by deleting it. Apologies if that confused you (and others).

Tom said:

To "install" a Satallite Uplink Transmitter (Which it is) You MUST be a certified installer per federal law and the contract between Hughs and Datastorm reflects this, However "Install" is defined as bolting it to your motor home's roof.  Not setting it up once you park (that's all done by certified set up software which DataStorm supplies)

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I believe you have it wrong John, or at least only partially correct. The certified installer must also commission the modem and get it officially registered with DW's registration server. This is true irrespective of whether it's mounted on a house, the roof of an RV, or a tripod.

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Not quite correct either. DW used to require the commissioning by an instaler. It was a fairly elaborate process that in most cases was done by a distributor before giving modem to installer to take to job site. Others of us, did it on site ourselves. However, one can now point the antenna, get it locked on to a strong signal and call DW yourself telling them that you have signal and want to activate the system and they'll go ahead and process the required billing information and activate the modem. Occassionally, you'll get someone who won't but just call back and get another one who will seems to be the existing process. This is the way so many people are getting on by buying a used system and  installing themselves.  DW's competitor is not quite so bold requiring you first pass an on line certifcation program so you are thus "certifed" when you do it.

That is news I hadn't heard Blueblood. I was firmly under the impression that if you even told DW you were mobile, they'd hang up on you. something must have changed (recently?).

I heard this might have happened on a rare occassion but is not the norm. ;D

blueblood said:

DW's competitor is not quite so bold requiring you first pass an on line certifcation program so you are thus "certifed" when you do it.

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Are you saying it is a bold move by DW, or do mean it was a dumb move by a DW operator that wasn't aware of DW's policy? How often are you saying that it happens and I'm curious as to your info source? Having lurked on quite a few forums over the past 3 years, I have seen tons of bogus stuff coming down (especially fear stuff by motosat dealers, installers, and some users) as to what DW policy was - and what they were going to do or not do concerning other than Datastorm mounts.

Bob,

As you recall, you and I attended that seminar in QZ, and I came away with the impression that us 'other-than Motosat' users were pretty safe - at least for the immediate future, and can't see Hughes/D'Way shooting themselves in the foot. As to the commissioning aspect, it's nothing more than registering a modem serial number with an active account and can be done before or after you're actually on a bird. Having heard (no names here) commission a new system, all he did was call and identify himself as an installer; no installer i.d. or other ident. required, and the process was done in a matter of a minute or two. As Ned said, this is rocket science, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of an average, diligent person. If you can't aim it correctly, you won't get on - plain and simple. 

Bob Buchanan said:

blueblood said:

DW's competitor is not quite so bold requiring you first pass an on line certifcation program so you are thus "certifed" when you do it.

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Are you saying it is a bold move by DW, or do mean it was a dumb move by a DW operator that wasn't aware of DW's policy? How often are you saying that it happens and I'm curious as to your info source? Having lurked on quite a few forums over the past 3 years, I have seen tons of bogus stuff coming down (especially fear stuff by motosat dealers, installers, and some users) as to what DW policy was - and what they were going to do or not do concerning other than Datastorm mounts.

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I really don't understand Hughes overall policy. They have stated several times that they were going to do this or that to enable or legitimize the use of tripods or roof mounted manual units but it never happens. They did tell us in one class in 2002 about plans to streamline the commissioning process so it could be controlled by them without human intervention thus lowering their costs. The ACP was mentioned as one leg of that strategy. In the meantime, their competitor comes out with an on-line process and takes away some business. I have friends who have switched for one reason or another including this one. It seems to me that Hughes is more focused on remote international areas and business applications. From all the units being sold on eBaY  and elsewhere, as well as the dramatic drop in offering prices, its clear that DSL/cable is biting them hard ( and the new 6000 plays a part as well). Another indication would seem to be GC's retrenchment closing both there east coast warehouse about 2 years ago and consolidating in SLC then closing the SLC operation more recently. They have all ways sold business plans but things must have slowed dramatically for them as well. Therefore, I think, but don't know, its concious neglect for the purpose of increasing usage but without raising the ire of FCC.

I do know that the operators do give out bad information. I just decommissioned a set of modems about a month ago and the operator told me at end of process unsolicited that if I was going to sell the modems I would need to send a letter to DW saying that I had sold them and the name of the new buyer so they could be re-commissioned.  I have never had that happen before on a phone call; I don't argue with these people I just go on and do it the old fashion way.

kkolbus said:

John,

Not to be argumentative, but the RaySat has lots of moving parts - under the dome. Also, the $3400+ price doesn't include a receiver, modem, or installation. Of course, you'll also have to contract separately for TV/Internet access thru a provider. They also state that for both TV and Internet to operate simultaneously, both birds must be very close together, otherwise you have to make a choice between one or the other. No bird-on-a-wire here.

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Dome, what dome, the ray sat is an electronically steerable array, it's a flat slab about 5: thick (optional 2" thick for automotive use) no moving parts at all in the slab

And as for the rest of it.. Too true  Way too true.

And for internet and TV both on any system it must be either same bird or very close together,  (think about it) or 2 antennas.

I do plan on a dual antenna system.... I basically do not need internet in motion (though it woudl be nice) I can get by with TV only in motion and use a 2nd antenna for TV when parked.  A seperate TV receiver, complete with contract, will, of course, come with antenna #2    Note, this is on a "As needed" basis.

Switching a receiver between 2 (or more) antennas is child's play for someone who's e-mail accress is @arrl.net (I'm wa8yxm)

And many of the campsites I park at a roof mounted receiver will not be much good.

John,
Sorry but you're wrong! The array MOVES inside that slab at approx 30 degrees/second. There are pictures of it available raht heay: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1749007,00.asp If does ain't motors to rotate it and slides to control the elevation, I'll eat YOUR hat; mines too dirty ;D ;D

I will just let Ron worry about all of this when I get out to Montana.

kkolbus said:

As you recall, you and I attended that seminar in QZ, . . .

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Hmmmm. Karl, either I'm getting too old or you're eating to much sharp cheddar <g>. I don't recall attendnig any seminars in QZ.

John:

WA8YXM DE W3PY  !!

kkolbus said:

John,
Sorry but you're wrong! The array MOVES inside that slab at approx 30 degrees/second. There are pictures of it available raht heay: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1749007,00.asp If does ain't motors to rotate it and slides to control the elevation, I'll eat YOUR hat; mines too dirty ;D ;D

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Humm,,, Guess you may be right, (Never saw one with the top off before)  The main advantage to this antenna though is that it is windproof, and a much lower profile than say King Dome or Moto-Sat.  I suspect it has higher "Effective area" too but I'd have to see the specs and spend time with them there.

I will be months before I write checks in any case.  I actually like that the ray-sat does not come with a TV receiver, that way you can choose your service.

And folks, the requirement that TRANSMISSION (internet) antennas be installed by a certified installer is a FEDERAL requirement, Yes the companies are trying to get permission for us users to do it, but it's the FCC that has to be convinced.

Bob,

Could be a little of both. Don't you remember us having breakfast in a converted bus and discussing satellite Internet? Believe Don Bradner was there too. Right by the Internet Cafe?????