RV community needs a revolution?

Customers decided whether mfg stay in business or not. The customers are buying the motorhomes in their current state of after purchase quality control and that was my point. If enough buyers simple refused to sign off and walked away from the units, things would change.

Unfortunately, the cost that would have to be passed on to the consumer might cripple the industry as the prices would likely shift significantly upward, leaving too many buyers behind. Custom builds are very expensive.

Food for thought, go take a look at an Evolution revo ultralite trike airplane, a custom built ultralite airplane, a wee bit of a thing, starts at $66,500.  Imagine the maintenance costs on those puppies.

By the way, another option rebelsun, is renting an ultralite to fly around these beautiful areas. Not too hard to get a sport pilot's license and by renting you don't have the maintenance and storage issues.

We RV because we enjoy the experience.  Airfare, car rental and hotel rooms?  No thank you.  Been there, done that. 

Eating every meal at the hotel restaurant or that place down the street they recommend.  No thank you.  Been there, done that. 

Mechanical problems on the road.  At the time, a major disaster.  In retrospect, a minor inconvenience. 

Would I sell the RV?  Only to buy another. 

For us, it's the journey, not the destination. 

     

How long would you have stayed in business, if you built houses, or renovated kitchens, bathrooms, or entire gut jobs on old tired homes, with the lack of fit and finish, and the lack of overall Quality Control, that RV builders exhibit in their finished product?

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Indefinitely, I think, as is evidenced by the large number of mediocre construction firms around. And if they go out of business, they just get resurrected under a new name the next day, often with the same employees and attitudes. None of these are businesses where repeat customers are much expected - most of their business comes from people who may hire a contractor once or twice in their lifetime. And many constructions firms are just a shell that hires subcontractors for each phase of the work, and the subs aren't worries about the end customer. They need only satisfy the contractor (stay within budget) and then quickly move on to the next job.

Garyb, good reply. But you missed one critical choice, that of renting a home for a couple of weeks or months.
But, bottom line is the journey and every person has things that bother them, that don't bother other people.
Fortunately, it is not necessary to justify our decisions.

As a relatively new MH owner, I agree with the OP's premise,
but also agree with many or the replies.

I'm reasonably handy, a mechanical engineer, a former industrial maintenance engineer & experienced with troubleshooting systems, a private pilot, and also a certified home inspector.... not that any of that means a whole lot of anything, except that I figure I did just about as thorough of a PDI as any normal person could or would be expected to do....
Anyway, I  did a very thorough PDI and spent several hours longer than the dealer had planned for.... but still missed some little things.
You can turn on a system and test it, but there's only so long you can run it.
And as others have said, things will shake loose or turn up later.

My intention when I do my next one is to
- arrange to do my PDI early in the day and early in the week, on a week day (not a Friday or weekend)
- Try to arrange a 1st night stay at the dealer's property.
- I doubt if they would go for it, but try to arrange for that first night stay to happen before signing the final papers.
- Be completely prepared to delay the final payment and signing until ALL issues are addressed to my satisfaction.

Gary RV Roamer said:

Indefinitely, I think, as is evidenced by the large number of mediocre construction firms around. And if they go out of business, they just get resurrected under a new name the next day, often with the same employees and attitudes. None of these are businesses where repeat customers are much expected - most of their business comes from people who may hire a contractor once or twice in their lifetime. And many constructions firms are just a shell that hires subcontractors for each phase of the work, and the subs aren't worries about the end customer. They need only satisfy the contractor (stay within budget) and then quickly move on to the next job.

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That is a pretty accurate depiction of what legitimate contractors are up against. This is our twentieth year in business as a small family owned General Contractor competing with the big boys and the fly-by-nights without a single complaint to the Contractor's Board and/or a single lawsuit. http://www.jmbconstructioninc.com/ We survived the 2nd Great Depression by the skin of our teeth, this year has seen a resurgence in our niche market. Our residential construction is up significantly this quarter with new investors building high end spec homes.

blw2 said:

- Be completely prepared to delay the final payment and signing until ALL issues are addressed to my satisfaction.

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As long as the Punch List is in writing on a "We Owe" type of document from the dealer it is powerfully binding. There is no need to withhold payment, that is the dealer's sole motivation for sure, but handing over the money in most cases won't delay your PDI Service. I've taken my motor home for numerous corrections since the sale (all cash) without any reservations...I am dealing with a known reputable dealer in Las Vegas, Findlay RV, who has a significant investment in the community, and that too makes a difference.

If you really want to see how todays cookie cutter homes are built you should ride with an inspector if you get the chance. When an owner has a complaint the first thing said is "how did that ever pass inspection", easy answer. The codes are a MINIMUM requirement and has nothing to do with looks, straightness, or high quality. Inspectors miss quite a few things and a lot of things are hidden from us, many time I have had to bite my tongue and pass some shoddy work because it passed code.

I suspect that there is some of that in the RV industry also, there may be too few people working QC and those that hold up assembly would be looking at a pink slip. It comes back to what everyone has been saying "taking Pride in your work". When I worked in the field I told my apprentices that they should be able to sign every piece  of work they put out even if it was buried, and made several job site friends take their work out and make it look like a professional did it.

blw2
I just had to believe that there are a few rv buyers who do the hard work before signing off. I don't believe you can be sure the rv will be perfect, but it seems you can do a lot to minimize risk and get things done while you still have the most leverage.

Oscar Mike, that is an advantage of dealing with a known local dealer. However, I don't think it is uncommon to deal with non-local unknown dealers if you have to shop around, say to find a highly desired rig. However, its all in the contract and if you can build in some holdback dollars or delay signing off and staying at the location awhile, even better. But, ok, I need to learn more about the We Owe contract provisions and options.

But a contract is only as good as the two people. Having to fight to enforce certain provisions is fraught will kinds of headaches. So, one advantage of this forum is asking members for their experience with a specific dealer or their help if you are thinking of buying non-local, and also like with used rigs what members know about that rig.

RodgerS said:

blw2
I just had to believe that there are a few rv buyers who do the hard work before signing off. I don't believe you can be sure the rv will be perfect, but it seems you can do a lot to minimize risk and get things done while you still have the most leverage.

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You'll never catch everything, regardless of the effort you put forth. Find the coach you really, really like and work out from there. 

garyb1st said:

We RV because we enjoy the experience.  Airfare, car rental and hotel rooms?  No thank you.  Been there, done that. 

Eating every meal at the hotel restaurant or that place down the street they recommend.  No thank you.  Been there, done that. 

Mechanical problems on the road.  At the time, a major disaster.  In retrospect, a minor inconvenience. 

Would I sell the RV?  Only to buy another. 

For us, it's the journey, not the destination. 

   

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I'm just the opposite, to me it's the destination, not the journey.  I really don't like to travel, but I do like going to new places, and different cultures, especially those outside the United States, and experiencing those places and cultures.  I like to eat and drink at places where the locals eat and drink.  I've made friends with locals in many different countries, and stayed in hotels, ate the local foods, and drank the local beer and liquor in many different countries.  Many of the pensions (hotels) I stayed at on the Greek Islands were built onto the owners homes.  The hospitality was unparalleled, and an experience I would not have wanted to miss.

I have traveled by air, ship (cruises), car, and motorhome.  Cruising is a very relaxing way to vacation.  It can be a real get away from phones, computers, internet, and television.  There are lots of activities, and you can do as much or as little as you desire on a cruise.  It is also a great way to see new ports, and experience new cultures, foods, destinations, and the sea, without the limitations and headaches of boat ownership.

Some hotels and B&B's are not as you described them.  Many hotels such as Hilton Homewood Suite, Marriott Residence Inn, Amerisuites, and others too numerous to mention, have full kitchens in the room.  Full size refrigerators with ice makers, stove, microwave, prep, and dining area, as well as separate living and bedrooms.  I stayed 4 wks. at one last July and into Aug. in the Boston Area, for $100 night (which BTW proved to be less expensive than driving my motorhome up and back, and paying for the fuel, and campsites which averaged $75 nite in that area/peak season).  That also included prepared dinner Mon.-Thurs. night in the lobby dining area, with complimentary beer and wine from 5-7 pm. each night, and breakfast every morning, if you cared to partake.  I also had the use of the gas grills in the courtyard and other hotel amenities, which I made use of several times while I was there.

Oscar Mike said:

As long as the Punch List is in writing on a "We Owe" type of document from the dealer it is powerfully binding. There is no need to withhold payment, that is the dealer's sole motivation for sure, but handing over the money in most cases won't delay your PDI Service. I've taken my motor home for numerous corrections since the sale (all cash) without any reservations...I am dealing with a known reputable dealer in Las Vegas, Findlay RV, who has a significant investment in the community, and that too makes a difference.

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When I wrote "to my satisfaction" I was thinking just that
there may be issues that I'm ok accepting contingent on future repair
Others maybe not so much.....
and still others fixed by some sort of change or substitute, or lowered price, or store credit given, etc.....
What I meant was "worked out" in one way or the other.

Getting back to the topic of RVs, I've read a lot of negativity in this thread.  We've been RVing since the 1960s.  Started with two VW Westphalias and worked our way up through three Class Cs and are on our second Class A diesel pusher.  I don't see the horrendous negative things that some of you non-owners are imagining.  Just because something negative happens to one person doesn't mean it's going to happen to everyone.  In fact, you're much more likely to hear about the negative things.  I don't post about all the good things about our motorhomes so you're not getting my positive comments.

We RV because we enjoy the experience.  Airfare, car rental and hotel rooms?  No thank you.  Been there, done that. 
Eating every meal at the hotel restaurant or that place down the street they recommend.  No thank you.  Been there, done that. 
Mechanical problems on the road.  At the time, a major disaster.  In retrospect, a minor inconvenience. 
Would I sell the RV?  Only to buy another. 
For us, it's the journey, not the destination.

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Garyb1st is spot on.  RVing is not for everyone.  If you approach it expecting the worst, then that's what you'll get.  If all you look at is cost and end up buying as cheaply as possible, then you'll probably not get the best quality RV.  You don't have to buy a Prevost to get a decent quality RV, but you do need to be observant and learn about what's important.,

As for renting someone else's house.  As Garyb1st says, I want my own facilities, bed, bath, kitchen.  I don't want to use someone else's "stuff" which is why I seldom use campground bathrooms.  That's why we love our motorhome.  We go where we want and when we want without reservations unless we choose to make them.  I grew up traveling by car and no thanks!  We flew and used hotels when we were working.  Had enough of that.

Yes, things go wrong but it's not the end of the world.  It's a minor "blip" in most cases.  I for one would like to see less negativity and more positive thinking!  In other words, I disagree with the original premise that the RV industry needs a revolution.  We have been quite satisfied with our RVs.

ArdraF

rebelsun and I have traveled internationally. Myself to about 25 countries. Our minds are comfortable with that and we don't necessarily want to limit ourselves to one continent or to the U.S. That doesn't mean that he or I won't have an RV, but that the RV is just one part of the picture and we don't want to feel we have to shut down to a smaller set of destinations by putting XXX,XXX dollars into an RV, or a vacation home.

My wife has only been to the U.S. outside China and she is also excited about seeing some other countries and about traveling in an RV.

This doesn't take away from anyone's mindset about what they want, but I can't understand rebel sun when he feels the destination is more important than the journey, that putting lots of miles on the pavement doesn't translate well, and that having to mess with a lot of fix it issues is not really part of the destination goals.

And rebel sun is also right that a delayed flight, needing to switch rooms, culture, and country issues are at least no more burdensome than the RV life. Again, it is more about the limits in ones own mind.

I enjoyed Egypt, but probably would not travel there today.

But what I do understand is this is an RV forum and that is what should be the focus, on solving RV issues and sharing RV experiences.

On the other hand, what you haven't experienced you can't always put your mind around, whether it is RVing or international travel, or trip on a cruise ship.

Ardra, I wouldn't worry about the negativity. Every group has people who get emotional about certain issues and need to vent or argue - few of us are truly 100% mellow.

It's a very good way to learn from guys because we are so solution oriented IMHO. We like our decisions and have not problem defending, arguing, or discussing them. We don't need to change anyones opinion. But we like a good give and take (such sweet words.)

Men have lost a lot of the places and groups we could go to to talk without restriction. The internet gives it back a bit.

So don't take our fun away, especially in an age where men are constantly being faced with changes in the rules from one day to the next...especially the young men.

I've been sitting back reading this thread, and doing some thinking about it. From my viewpoint, I don't see where people are getting upset so much about things that are wrong with their new RV's, but more upset about having them taken care of in a timely manner. A friend of mine has a 2014 Open Road and spent 22 days at the factory getting repairs done and he felt he was fortunate because he still works hands on at his one man business. At lot of others there for repairs were retired and deferred their repairs so he could get his coach done and get back to work. I have read the same thing about others dealing with the same thing at their local dealers. I had a problem with some roof damage. I set up an appt. with my local dealer to have repaired. I asked if I could bring it in two days later than the appt. because we were camphosting and the replacements were not going to be there in time to cover their committment. They said they were booked and couldn't change their schedule. I took it in on time and it sat there for a week before they even looked at it. I will say in their defense that the repairs were done to my satisfaction, and though it was storm damage, they fixed it for free.

While I can't actually condone sloppy workmanship at RV factories, or inadequately designed/tested components (broken frame welds and fire-prone refrigerators come readily to mind), I think the quality of repair work is a much greater issue for most RVers.  From what we see and hear on this and other RVing sites, it would appear it is nigh unto impossible to get proper repairs in a timely manner. Even allowing that we hear far more about issues than happy endings, the sheer number of botched repairs, excessive charges, and lengthy delays (20-30 days is common) is just plain scary. It's bad enough that our expensive toys are subject to all kinds of failures,  but the inability to get reliable repairs in a couple of weeks can make relatively small problems into high-stress catastrophes.