Is there a size/weight point where it makes sense to forget about gas engines for a motorhome. While we do not plan on extended touring, we may find ourselves towing a small vehicle on occasion. We have been looking at new Class C motorhomes but have also seen some very nice older Class A models with gas engines. Some of these go up to 37 feet. Just wasn't sure of the power. A couple of the Class A we have seen are powered by Chevy while the other is a Ford--my preference if I go gas. This will be our first and are taking our time looking at options.
Gas vs Diesel
- Thread starter cbc66
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Arch Hoagland
Well-known member
We have a 2004 Monaco 37 foot Class A with the GM 8.1 gas engine and the Allison 1000 transmission. I pull a 4,020lb Lexus RX300 with it all over the country.
I've put 70,000 miles on it so far and have gone over most every major mountain chain in the country without any problem.
Never had a Ford RV so I can't comment on them but somebody will be along shortly with Ford experience.
My advice....buy a used rig and use the savings on fuel.
I've put 70,000 miles on it so far and have gone over most every major mountain chain in the country without any problem.
Never had a Ford RV so I can't comment on them but somebody will be along shortly with Ford experience.
My advice....buy a used rig and use the savings on fuel.
Its really just a matter of meeting your expectations whatever they may be. I had two gas motorhome before I went pusher. The first was basically a van so it drove like any overloaded van. Then we went with a 28ft on a Chrysler chassis. It had a big block gas and once loaded I just had to stand on the throttle most of the time and watch my temp gage. When climbing I needed to slow down and downshift. I got about 7 miles per gallon. When looking at my third I decided no more and went 400 hp C9 diesel.6 miles to the gallon but would hold speed regardless of hills and rarely downshifted and I was really happy with the power but not so much with the exhaust brake. On the third and last went ISX600hp. Mileage went up to 6.5 and got three stage jake brake. Now im happy with power and the engine brake allows me to rarely touch the service brakes . Iv met a lot of great fellow rvrs who have gas rigs and couldn't be happier so as I started my post its just a matter of expectations..
Rod
Rod
I keep wondering the same thing. I'm also somewhat torn between gas and diesel. The rule rule of thumb i've read here is 1 horsepower per 100 pounds for a diesel. I assume it would be be the same for gas. As far as going up hill, most gassers seem as if they would have enough power, they just turn up the rpms doing it. I'm talking about GM 8.1 and Ford Triton V10's, don't know about the old 460's and 454's. Most diesels have at least twice the towing capability as gassers and air suspention for a suppossedly better ride. I haven't used either so I can't say for sure anout the ride. Exhaust braking makes downhills easier with a diesel. Either will do as long as you can stay in the weight limits of your coach. As Rod said, it's a matter of expectations. Diesels also have a longer engine life if all driving and maintenance is equal. 500,000 miles with vs. 250,000 miles with gas. How many of us will realistically put that many miles on a coach.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Gas engines develop less power than diesels at low rpms, so it's nice to have a bit greater hp-to-weight ratio in a gas chassis. For that reason, a gas chassis coach typically has more like 1.25-1.50 hp per 100 lbs. For example, a 340 hp gas engine develops only around 200-250 hp in the 1000-2500 rpm range where most driving is done, so that engine in a 24,000 lb rig is still effectively only 1 hp/100 lbs, even though the peak hp is much higher.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
There is a fairly narrow range where gas or diesel are both offered, typically in the 34-37 foot size with weights up to around 24,000 lbs GVWR. Personally, I would want to have a diesel for any GVWR over 22,000 lbs, but I wouldn't rule out something a bit greater if it was otherwise perfect for my needs.
The engine itself is only part of the equation. The other aspects of a DP are equally important as the coach gets larger, e.g. suspension, chassis stiffness, wheelbase, etc.
The engine itself is only part of the equation. The other aspects of a DP are equally important as the coach gets larger, e.g. suspension, chassis stiffness, wheelbase, etc.
docj
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Gary RV Roamer said:
This is what is usually overlooked in these endless gas vs diesel debates. Manufacturers put diesels in their higher end coaches. If you want amenities such as air ride, hydronic heat, etc, you are only going to find them in a DP. Also, nothing beats the serene quiet of sitting upfront in a DP with an engine 40 feet behind you. It's significantly quieter than our "luxury" CR-V! ;D
Marsha/CA
Moderator Emeritus
We have an article in the library that discusses Gas vs Diesel. You can find it here: http://www.rvforum.net/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27:gas-or-diesel&catid=38&Itemid=132
Marsha~
Marsha~
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
It may not be a big thing,
but depending on what state you live in you may need to go down and get a Class A or B drivers license if the GVW of the motor-home you want is over 26K lbs.
I don't think there is too many diesel rigs with a GVW less than that.
but depending on what state you live in you may need to go down and get a Class A or B drivers license if the GVW of the motor-home you want is over 26K lbs.
I don't think there is too many diesel rigs with a GVW less than that.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
Mercedes Sprinter-based Class A's and C's?
mhbell
Well-known member
I have owned both DP's and Gas 2002 Pace arrow 37 ft gas towed a 2002 Jeep liberty no problems. 1995 36 ft Dolphin chev 454 banks power pack towed ford ranger no problem 1995 36 ft dolphin DP towed Jeep liberty No problem. 1998 Tropical 38 ft gas towed a jeep liberty no problems. The DP was better in the mountains and going up hills But the expense of maintaining a DP was 3 times what it cost to maintain a gas rig. Fuel is anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar more than gas. Diesel only got maybe 2 mpg more than my gas rigs. my present unit is a 1997 georgie boy pursuit 34 ft with a ford 360 v-8 engine and I tow a 2007 jeep liberty. I would say that if you are going to be towing a lot in the mountains or where there is a lot of hills then the DP would be better if you can afford the maintenance on a DP. If you are not doing a lot of mountain traveling and are willing to take it a little slower going up steep hills then a gas rig would probably do you just fine and save you money to boot..
Mel
Mel
docj
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TonyDtorch said:
Just because someone was doing it doesn't mean that it was safe. I seriously doubt that the combined vehicles stayed under the GCWR for the MH.
jglass
Well-known member
We purchased our fourth gas motorhome last month. We made three trips to the
Rocky Mountains on ski trips in your younger days, Dodge 360. Now, it is back and fourth to Florida, GM 454. Next trip with be in our new/used GM 8.1.
I do not recall ever driving a motor home with the throttle wide open. Owned the last motor home for nine years and don't call ever using passing gear.
I climb mountains with 3/4 throttle max and that is it. When it slows to 25-30 MPH, I manually down shift.
On flat ground I drive 55-60. I'll wind her up going down hill once in a great while.
No need for a diesel here.
Jim
Rocky Mountains on ski trips in your younger days, Dodge 360. Now, it is back and fourth to Florida, GM 454. Next trip with be in our new/used GM 8.1.
I do not recall ever driving a motor home with the throttle wide open. Owned the last motor home for nine years and don't call ever using passing gear.
I climb mountains with 3/4 throttle max and that is it. When it slows to 25-30 MPH, I manually down shift.
On flat ground I drive 55-60. I'll wind her up going down hill once in a great while.
No need for a diesel here.
Jim
JimGeorgia
Well-known member
Have the V-10 in the Brave 26A. Its probably one of the smallest F53 chassis (28 feet) that has the 362 hp V10. Needless to say, power is not an issue. In face, I have to watch my lead foot.
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
docj said:
as long as the trailer has an adequate braking control system and all the weights, (tongue, hitch and rear axle) are within legal parameters ....and it's driven by an experienced driver, it's safe.
with a little common sense you can tow this same trailer setup safely even with a smaller pickup truck.
most times the engineers figure in the "lawsuit related human stupidity factor" to the GCWR's.....
I wouldn't worry too much about this RV....you should be more concerned about many of those NAFTA trucks and busses that are unsafe with bad brakes and tires ........ they are all over our highways everyday.
docj
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TonyDtorch said:
When the stuff being towed becomes an appreciable fraction of the weight of the towing vehicle you have introduced factors that can overwhelm even an experienced driver in a panic situation. I'm not denying that it can be towed safely "most of the time" but grossly exceeding the GCWR reduces the driver's margin of error and increases the chances of an accident. I taught physics for enough years to be able to easily calculate how having too heavy a trailer changes the dynamics of the situation for the worse.
You clearly have your mind made up and i don't expect for you to change it, but I hope others realize that GCWR's exist to do more than placate lawyers.
T
TonyDtorch
Guest
docj said:
really ? so you're saying the laws of physics can't explain the millions of 80k GVW tractor/trailer rigs..... where the truck (tractor) porton weighs 10k lbs. an the trailer weighs 70k lbs. .....yes I know it's a 5th wheel.... but trailer brakes are trailer brakes no matter what trailer it is.
the typical 1/2 ton pickup truck... pulling a car trailer with a car on it ......is outweighed by the total towed weight and would be pushed out of the way without trailer brakes.
all any tow vehicle needs is enough power to get the trailer going, and the trailer needs brakes to get it all stopped.
in Ca I think the law is any towed vehicle over 1500 lbs needs it's own braking system.
years ago we used to un-adjust the front brakes on our tractors so we would never lock up the front wheels on wet roads and loose the ability to steer the truck. It was the trailer weight and trailer brakes that had almost all the stopping control.
I have a 2008 Adventurer 8.1 gas and pull a Ford sport trac (5000lbs) behind me, I also have the Banks system on it. I've been coast to coast and I have actually pulled past many DP on hills, I average 6.5 mpg with a lead foot and I have averaged around 8 mpg a few times taking it easy with some moderate pulls. I now have about 40,000 miles with no real issues.
I was going to buy a DP when I bought this one but I am glad I changed my mind, especially when I see the ridiculous price of fuel, its $1.00 a gallon more in some areas and every DP owner I have talked to tells me 6 to 6.5 mpg is all they are getting. Now they have the DEF and the filters, I don't need the extra cost and aggravation. A lot of the gas jobs are getting more and more luxurious at lot less money.
I also like that I can get fueled up at almost every exit, in 2008 the new filtered diesel engines scared me as I heard a lot nightmare stories, I think the newer ones are better but I still think gas is the way to go.
I was going to buy a DP when I bought this one but I am glad I changed my mind, especially when I see the ridiculous price of fuel, its $1.00 a gallon more in some areas and every DP owner I have talked to tells me 6 to 6.5 mpg is all they are getting. Now they have the DEF and the filters, I don't need the extra cost and aggravation. A lot of the gas jobs are getting more and more luxurious at lot less money.
I also like that I can get fueled up at almost every exit, in 2008 the new filtered diesel engines scared me as I heard a lot nightmare stories, I think the newer ones are better but I still think gas is the way to go.
Ernie n Tara
Well-known member
I expect that maintenance cost could be an issue if you use RV/Factory shops, but fuel cost is about a wash in my experience. Given even close to comparable weights, the improvement in mileage with a diesel will make up the difference between $3.00 gas and $4.00 diesel. Given a 22, 000 lb gas rig and a 28, 000 diesel you're probably looking at about 6.5 mpg gas and 8.5 mpg for the diesel rig driven the same way.
My gas Pursuit only weighed about 18, 500 vs this 28, 000+ lb 34y diesel so it did a little better, sometimes 7.5 mpg where the diesel does about 8.6. I plan either one at $0.50 per mile for fuel. That allows for about $0.60 higher price for diesel at $4.00 per gallon.
Ernie
My gas Pursuit only weighed about 18, 500 vs this 28, 000+ lb 34y diesel so it did a little better, sometimes 7.5 mpg where the diesel does about 8.6. I plan either one at $0.50 per mile for fuel. That allows for about $0.60 higher price for diesel at $4.00 per gallon.
Ernie
