Gas vs Diesel

Whatever you do, don't ever buy a diesel pusher. They're just money pits that never quit. Why the cost of maintenance is double or triple what any gas engined rig is. And the initial cost is astronomical. Gas rigs get twice the fuel mileage of any diesel rig. They pull every hill faster. The luxury in a gas rig is much better than the diesel. Why that gas engine sitting next to my leg turning 5000 rpm can't even be heard. And there is no heat that gets thru the inch of insulation they put in. My foot needs the heater turned on in the summertime because that gas engine takes heat out of the MH when we're driving. I don't have any idea why people would want air brakes and air ride suspension. Those leaf springs and juice brakes work perfect for me. Even down the long hills I don't find any need for an engine brake. I just drop my tranny in a lower gear and everything is perfect. Because 4000 rpm going downhill is just as quiet as it is going up hill.

I know a guy who's cousins brothers boss said that they ought to outlaw diesels. Why on earth someone would want to bother filling a DEF tank every couple thousand miles with a hose right next to the fuel pump,,,,,, I can't imagine. What a terrible inconvenience. And EVERY DAY I'm finding that diesel is AT LEAST a dollar a gallon higher than gasoline. I can't find it cheaper anywhere! And those smelly dirty fuel pumps. I'd much rather pump my gasoline from a freshly sanitized for your protection gas nozzle. Why I could eat my dinner off one of them.

No sir! I'd never join the thousands or maybe hundreds of thousand of people who find the diesel RV's comfort and convenience worth a few extra dollars. But then I'm a sarcastic old curmudgeon.

Ken

LOL, Ken. A nice bit of sarcasm there!  8)

Ernie n Tara said:

I expect that maintenance cost could be an issue if you use RV/Factory shops, but fuel cost is about a wash in my experience.  Given even close to comparable weights, the improvement in mileage with a diesel will make up the difference between $3.00 gas and $4.00 diesel. Given a 22, 000 lb gas rig and a 28, 000 diesel you're probably looking at about 6.5 mpg gas and 8.5 mpg for the diesel rig driven the same way.

My gas Pursuit only weighed about 18, 500 vs this 28, 000+ lb 34y diesel so it did a little better, sometimes 7.5 mpg where the diesel does about 8.6. I plan either one at $0.50 per mile for fuel. That allows for about $0.60 higher price for diesel at $4.00 per gallon.

Ernie

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for a little more realistic gas vs diesel RV cost comparison..... you'll also want to figure in the double initial price of the oil burners.

Boy Ken, if more people believed that way, my next Diesel might not cost as much!

In 2009/2010, Ford designed its F-53 rv chassis as compared to its older F-53 chassis. I took a 2014 33 gas F-53 and a 34 diesel class A, both by Winnebago, for a test ride with moderate winds, that included a rough back road, but no mountain up and down, and no toad, and not loaded up. Both road equally well and speeded up well under those limited test conditions. Both were a bit affected by the moderate winds. The only advantage, on that test ride, was the diesel was very quiet compared to the gas, but the gas was not unreasonable, but not nearly as quiet.

Haven't ridden a Newmar with Comfort Drive, but understand it makes a significant difference, same as suspension upgrades for both the gas and diesel suspensions I won't go into now, like Konis and Safe-T-Steer.

I think some of the older experiences are interesting, but may be a bit dated, though always good stories.

Just to add:

From Motorweek on test drives of 2014 Sightseer (of course they lied)
"This Class A uses larger medium-duty truck wheels and tires, so it responds more like a big rig than a dually pickup. With its heavier duty chassis the Sightseer has a downright cushy ride. There were squeaks from the slide outs, but the Sightseer?s stiff body structure did a great job of taming flex and shimmy over bumps."

"Even more impressive is while it has the engine in front, it rides almost plush, more like a larger rear engine pusher RV. Our staff also remarked that the interior; cabinets, materials; befit an RV costing much more."

http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2014_winnebago_sightseer_33c

It's true that the more recent gas chassis models are much better riding and handling and performing that older ones. The revolution started in 2002 when Workhorse introduced the W-series RV chassis and Ford soon followed with upgrades to their F53 chassis. A number of improvements were applied, including stiffer frames, higher capacity suspensions, bigger roll bars & panhard rods, larger tires, 5 & 6 speed transmissions, and larger wheels with more capable brakes. Plus the general improvements in electronic controlled, fuel injected, multi-valve engines. The gas motorhome chassis of today is a far cry from the late 90's or even 2000.

One of the other aspects most over look when choosing between a DP and a Gasser is what happens after they park. Most gassers that I have seen seem to be high off the ground when the leveling jacks are deployed. This often puts the wheels off the ground and increases the risk of sliding, bending a leg, possibly damaging the suspension and a very high initial step height to enter the rig.

DP have the ability to squat, lowering the main cabin floor and steps closer to the ground easing entry exit. You can (in our case) use the leveling jacks and the air suspension to squat and level the front and rear as needed to level the rig front to back, thus reducing the need to jack up one end or the other to level the rig to level the cabin.

My father in law owned a gasser for years, his major complaint always was the heat and noise from the engine under the cockpit and the genset under the bed...both noisy and hot. As he got older mobility played an issue on being able to enter the drivers seat, trying to get your legs over or around that hump the engine created in the cockpit.

Which is probably the most important aspect of choosing any RV...plan not just for today but for the future too. Your physical abilities and limitations change, what you can do today you may wish you had bought something different tomorrow because it doesn't meet your needs.

It appears that everyone is dodging the number one issue most people have with the Gas vs Diesel decision...

the price of the motorhome.

if you're on a budget looking for a used RV, you can get a much newer gas unit with slides for the same price of a 20+ year old no slide diesel rig.

If you plan on spending most of the time driving on the highway, then the no slide diesel is better.
if you plan on spending most of the time camping, the a newer gas with slides might be better.

if you in the market for a new RV the price of a diesel is just about double of a gas rig.

Obviously if money is not an issue, then I completely agree with diesel,...... and don't even bother with all the lower end Diesel rigs....You should just call Newell and place your order.

I think TonyDorch is right  - the price is a major difference for most buyers. To some extent that may be perception, though. You don't need to buy a Newell to get a diesel coach!

The price difference between similarly equipped gas and diesel pusher coaches is only about 3-4 years of age (the older DP costs about the same as  a newer gasser). And if you compare a gas coach to a front diesel with the same leaf spring suspension and equipment, the price difference is no more than one year of age.  However, the price differential is exacerbated by the fact that many (most?) diesel pushers are better equipped than even a high end gasser, so you go to the sales lot and see prices in the $250k+ range for several DPs and 165k for a nice gasser, and you think "Wow! That expensive". But you can get a nice Allegro Breeze DP for $200k (MSRP - discounts apply) and it has some extra features too vs the gas chassis Allegro, so maybe it's not all that much more on the bottom line. A couple years of depreciation quickly wipes out that difference.

Gary RV Roamer said:

. And if you compare a gas coach to a front diesel with the same leaf spring suspension and equipment, the price difference is no more than one year of age.

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Gary...is there any manufacturer still making a Fred class A ?

I agree with Gary, it's not quite as simple as Tony makes it sound. Reading Tony's post he makes it sound like the only difference between the rigs are the engines and that's simply not the case. The accessories which we all love are a huge part of the diesel difference. With the HydroHot we can run the line for people waiting to take showers out the door,  they can go in one by one all day and never run out of hot water. You can quite literally turn on the hot water and it will stay hot for 8 hours. Which gas engined rig does that? (the one with a hydrohot retrofitted into it?)

Tony is onto something. Cost. Because a new Ferarri is out of my price range, doesn't mean my Kia is just as good as a Ferarri. I can tell myself that my Kia and a Ferarri do the same things. They both have heaters when it's cold out. They both have windows and doors and seats. Ferarri tires are way more expensive than Kia tires.  I can argue that they both get you from point a to point b. I can argue that the repairs for the Ferarri are huge $ and the Kia is so much more reasonable. I can compare the square inches of interior space and prove that my Kia has more room inside. I can tell you how many Ferarris I passed at the stop light. Maybe I even got across the intersection faster than a Ferarri one time or a dozen times. Ferarris are overpriced. It's just ego that makes people buy Ferarris. My Kia does everything I want it to.

Now, would you rather borrow my Kia or my Ferarri for the weekend?

Ken

Neither... they're not diesel.

Well.. from what you D/P guys are saying... a gas rig is a waste of money, 

so,  get the Newell 45'-4 slide, and a Ferrari FF as a toad.

both Ferrari and Newell have the "comfort and convenience worth a few extra dollars"

Sure, the FF may cost a little extra to maintain, but you DP guys also said you don't mind that.

the goal is....go big, or go home.....right?  ???

Which motorhome would be quieter for my wife if she wants to go back in the bedroom and take a nap while we're going down the highway......

A.  a gas motorhome
B.  a diesel pusher motorhome

      ___ the answer is A ____

and yes, it's perfectly legal for her to do that.
She does not tolerate sitting for long periods very well.

Some people are on a budget. A diesel is more up front, more for tires, more for brakes, more for most anything chassis related. The comfort and accessories of a diesel pusher are nice... real nice, but a gasser may be what the budget allows. Those whose budget allows ought to go with a DP, those whose budget is more modest would be well served by a quality gasser.

Bill

TonyDtorch said:

Which one would be quieter for my wife if she wants to go back in the bedroom and take a nap while we're going down the highway......
A.  a gas motorhome
B.  a diesel pusher motorhome

the answer is A

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My wife never goes in back to nap while I'm driving. The noisy engine is back there 40' away from the driver. She does however nap on the couch which is 32 feet from the engine. If the engine is up front it's right beside you 100% of the time you're driving or co-piloting.

Ken 

bucks2 said:

My wife never goes in back to nap while I'm driving. The noisy engine is back there 40' away from the driver. She does however nap on the couch which is 32 feet from the engine. If the engine is up front it's right beside you 100% of the time you're driving or co-piloting.

Ken 

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I guess you're lucky,
My wife hates talk-radio so for me it's better if she goes back to the bedroom so I can listen to whatever I want on the radio.  I'm wanna get a CB too, she really hates those things.

Some days its tough to find a station that we both agree on too. She's learned to ignore the CB.

Ken

As a ex truck driver I take exception to Tony Dortch that stated a semi tractor weights 10,000 lb and trailer weighs 70,000- That is incorrect as most road tractors weigh 26,000 or more while empty trailers are typically 10,000 and then can carry a 40,000 pay load to not exceed totally 80,000.