Elderly Parents

I was adopted and grew up with loving supportive parents who remained that way until the end. I did meet my biological mother who became difficult as time went on, I loved her in a certain way but I honestly did not like her. She tried to use guilt and tears to manipulate me but I said no, I will be here and support you emotionally but you are not running my life. I do not for one minute regret the relationship but it sure gave me a new appreciation for what I had. I did tell mom how I felt, dad had been gone for many years. She gave me a funny look and turned away.

Humans are facing new issues. Few people use to live into their 70's, much less their 80's or 90's. Old relatives expected to be taken in by younger relarives who were still pretty healthy and able to do the job. People didn't retire. They worked until they were well past the stage that they'd be on disability, today. There was no social safety net and there  wasn't much for the lower classes to do when they retired, anyway.

Now the elderly still expect their children to take them in, but their children are entering old age, themselves, and are less able or willing to do it. The middle class children have worked for longer than most people lived a couple generations ago. There are lots of things they want to do. They feel they've earned it. They know they have only a limited amount of healthy time to do them. There is a social safety net and other ways to see that elderly parents are safe. We are seeing increasing age related dementia and physical disabilities that are hard to care for as more people live longer.

Even when elderly parents have not been obnoxious, there can be a serious conflict.

curlew said:

Humans are facing new issues. Few people use to live into their 70's, much less their 80's or 90's.

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That sounds like something I say to many of these Diet books and gurus out there, Paleo diet, Caveman diet and so on.. They pushers of those plans (Which may or may not be good) go on about how many of the things that bother us today like High Blood Pressure, Congestive Heart failure, Senile Dementia and so on and so forth.

True, but then most of those conditions come about after 40, and back then few got to 30.

John From Detroit said:

True, but then most of those conditions come about after 40, and back then few got to 30.

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Yep.

When someone criticizes my dietary habits and the fact that I still enjoy a few cold ones on the weekend, I wonder why.  Yes, I could live cleaner, but for what?  So I can live to 87 instead of 86 and enjoy another year of misery inside my then failed body?  Whoopee....Pass me another Fat Tire and light my stogie, will ya? 

I'm lucky....mom is 80 and still pretty independent.  She lives about 5 minutes from us.....still drives (though marginally), but we have to take her anywhere that involves freeways, which is most of her dr appointments.  She's mostly pleasant, but very egocentric and steers any conversation so it's about her.  She also talks incessantly....I mean absolutely NON-STOP, as in can't get a word in edgewise....and if you interject, she immediately steers the conversation so it's about her. 

To be honest....it wears on me.  I can only take her in small doses any more.  Wifey is much more patient than me and will listen (glassy eyed, granted) to her ramble for hours.  The constant talking stresses me though, and after a couple hours I either remove myself from the situation or I start to get testy.  Mom also has a hair trigger for butt hurt.....any perceived slight results in a tirade.  How long it lasts is anyone's guess.  And it's ALL about her....she can twist an innocuous comment into a malicious insult directed at her. Truth be told, she isn't much different from when she was young...difference is, back then, she had other outlets for it.  Now it's wifey and I.  My brother and sister live on opposite ends of the country and avoid responsibility with her like it's the plague.  My older sis is less than a year from full govt retirement and promises to contribute more soon....My brother is....well, let's just say self consumed.

I honestly don't know what we will do if Mom eventually requires full time care. She has no financial resources other than social security.  The wife or I COULD retire and take care of her, but we both make good money and we have no bills....we're finally able to enjoy life without financial constraints.  I honestly wouldn't be able to do it because....well, she drives me insane.  I wouldn't ask wifey....she didn't sign on for that.  Between sis and I we have the financial resources to put her someplace nice I suppose....

Jeez.....we all have some tale of woe with our parents, don't we??

Yeah. People really don't change. They just become more and more who they really are.

Now the elderly still expect their children to take them in, but their children are entering old age, themselves, and are less able or willing to do it.

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I honestly don't know what we will do if Mom eventually requires full time care. She has no financial resources other than social security.

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There really isn't any need for that. There is an entire industry around taking care of the elderly which is growing to meet the demand. And honestly, they do it much better than most adult children can. They are trained to deal with the needs of their patients. Its not a 24/7 job for them, they work their 8-12 hours then go home and let someone else take over. They don't get burnt out or get resentful and then feel guilty because of that. Plus they don't have the emotional attachment that the kids would. Don't get me wrong though, the staff do get plenty attached to their patients, they just don't get caught up in the drama that some of the patients lay on their kids.

My DH is 20 years older than I am. He's told me that when the time comes that he needs to be taken care of, and I get tired of having to change his diapers, I can just pin his DD214 to his pajamas and drop him off at the old soldiers home.

cadee2c said:

There really isn't any need for that. There is an entire industry around taking care of the elderly which is growing to meet the demand. And honestly, they do it much better than most adult children can. They are trained to deal with the needs of their patients. Its not a 24/7 job for them, they work their 8-12 hours then go home and let someone else take over. They don't get burnt out or get resentful and then feel guilty because of that. Plus they don't have the emotional attachment that the kids would. Don't get me wrong though, the staff do get plenty attached to their patients, they just don't get caught up in the drama that some of the patients lay on their kids.

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That makes me feel better.  And it makes sense.  When mom gets to that point, I don't want to feel like I'm dropping her off in some staging area between life and the great beyond...and I still want to take be around her (albeit in small doses), but can exit back into my life when I want. 

Here's a question for those of you who've "been there" and had a fairly independent parent....Mom has basically isolated herself other than us and her doctors, shopping, etc.  She has outlived most of her old friends, and the remaining ones are spread around the country.  We moved her to El Paso 7 years ago because she lived in the county up in the mountains and was starting to fall a lot.  She was in a remote area, and if she called for help, odds are nobody would hear her.  Now she has neighbors that are close and who keep an eye on her, and medical facilities are close....plus we're here if she needs us.  But she doesn't have any friends....nor does she seem to really want any.  An elderly German lady was stopping by when she first got here and was trying to be her friend (delightful lady), but mom essentially pushed her away.  A couple others have tried, but she runs them off or ignores them.  And yet I sense she's lonely.....Does that make any sense to anyone??  Maybe I'm misreading the situation.

When mom gets to that point, I don't want to feel like I'm dropping her off in some staging area between life and the great beyond

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Sometimes things don't go quite the way you wish or plan for.  Mother always said "Don't you dare put me in a nursing home; people go there to die."  When Mother fell (again) at 94 years old, the apartment manager called 911 and she was taken to the hospital where they found she had broken a small but weight-bearing pelvic bone (the first time it was her hip from which she recovered).  I got on the first airplane and she was being checked out of the hospital just as I arrived.  They said they were taking her to a nursing rehab. facility that (1) had an open bed and (2) Mother approved.  I followed the ambulance to the place which turned out to be a very nice nursing home that also had assisted living and independent living areas.  I'm sorry to say but Mother did in fact die there and I'll always feel bad about that.  She was so frail at 94 years that she never could walk enough after getting out of the brace to regain leg strength.  At about five months she realized she couldn't go back to her apartment so her lease ended without being renewed and we had to sell all her treasures.  That was the hardest part because she was still alive and wondering who bought item X or what happened to item Y.  We and the rest of the family all had our own homes full of "stuff" and simply couldn't keep most of her things.

I received some excellent advice when Mother went into the nursing home.  The first was to apply immediately for Medicaid even though she might not need it.  We were really glad we did that because her savings were used up fairly quickly and Medicaid made one or two payments before she died.  The second advice was from the Medicaid representative who told us to prearrange Mother's funeral as a legitimate cost of using down her funds.  We went to the local funeral home and made all the arrangements.  We never told Mother about that but I was really glad we did because when I got "the call" I flew out as soon as possible and Jerry would follow if necessary.  It turned out she died within a few hours of my arrival so I was alone and would have been alone making arrangements had they not already been made.  It sounds awful to prearrange someone else's funeral but I was really glad I didn't have to make all those decisions alone in a time of grief.

We do the best we can and hope it all turns out.  With any luck your parents will still be sharp enough that they are the ones who make the hardest decisions.

ArdraF

ArdraF said:

It sounds awful to prearrange someone else's funeral but I was really glad I didn't have to make all those decisions alone in a time of grief.

We do the best we can and hope it all turns out.  With any luck your parents will still be sharp enough that they are the ones who make the hardest decisions.

ArdraF

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No, it sounds prudent.....And it's one less stressful thing to deal with when the time comes.  My wife's grandmother had this all pre-arranged and paid for herself (wife's parents were deceased already).  When she died in 2009, one call and it was all taken care of. 

You mentioned Medicare....and pardon my ignorance on the subject, but I've always wondered......what happens if a person is elderly, no longer able to take care of themselves, and has no family (or no willing family) and no (or limited) assets?  I don't have much experience with nursing homes, but I'm willing to bet most are north of $5K per month.  Does Medicare supplement this cost?  In my case, sis and I could swing it with mom's social security, but it would put a serious dent in both of us.  My brother would help, but he doesn't have a penny to his name...always spent $5 for every dollar he made.  Mom worked  full time (and then some) her whole life.

BTW....glad I found this thread.  This is all uncharted water for me, and something I'm starting to think about more and more and didn't really know where to turn or who to ask....

The time isn't here yet, and with any luck, won't be for a while.....but I have a feeling when Mom can't take care of herself any more, it will happen suddenly...

No, this is Medicaid.  Medicare is what we use now for our regular health care needs.  Medicaid is used for long-term care.  Basically the way it works is you apply for Medicaid, they work with you so you know how much you need to "spend down" and what the legitimate "spend down" items include.  Once the person's savings/assets are down to a certain point then Medicaid starts paying the nursing home costs.  And, you're correct about nursing homes costing $5,000/month or more.  I just Googled nursing home cost per month and a lot came up.  This one was interesting.

"Some average costs for long-term care in the United States (in 2010) were: $205 per day or $6,235 per month for a semi-private room in a nursing home. $229 per day or $6,965 per month for a private room in a nursing home. $3,293 per month for care in an assisted living facility (for a one-bedroom unit)"

Mother's was over $5,000 in 2004 and she was in a three-person room.  She could chat with one of the ladies but the other one was "out of it".  The staff were very caring and good about calling me and keeping me informed.  They had monthly meetings to discuss various patients and their needs which included speech therapy, special food needs, etc.  In fact, one example was a really bad storm that took out power in a large area.  The staff stayed in place and went to extra effort to make sure everyone was cared for in spite of the lack of power.  None of them went home for a couple of days.

It is important to know about the quality of care about nursing homes in the person's area.  Mother told me years in advance that a specific chain of care facilities had a terrible reputation.  There are internet sites where quality of care can be found so you might want to do some research on facilities so you're at least somewhat prepared ahead of time.  I was lucky that Mother read the newspaper every day and knew what was going on around her!

ArdraF

A million thanks Ardra....I now understand the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.  I didn't know Medicaid paid for long term care....I figured once a person's asset were exhausted, well.....I didn't know.  I figured they didn't kick grandma to the curb with an overnight bag, but I wasn't sure what happened. 

In my wife's grandmothers case, she was sharp as a tack at 88, lived alone, and quite independent...and then emphysema hit, and she was gone 6 months later.  My wife and her sisters went and stayed with her until the end and she died in her home.  She was a delightful person, and I would have built on a room to my house for her if needed.  Sometimes I feel bad that I would be....not unwilling, but hesitant to do the same for Mom.  But Wifey's grandmother was an amazing person, and I loved her like she was my own and miss her terribly.  In 25 years we never had a cross word....Mom and I don't get along quite as well. 

Family dynamics are a treacherous landscape sometimes.....

I went through something similar with my bio mother, toward the end she got so self absorbed and miserable she drove away most who were close to her including me. Few of the people she considered close friends turned up at the funeral. Granted she had led an unhappy life, her one surviving brother was just as miserable and her husband (not my father) died a raging alcoholic, but it was all about her and how the world mistreated her. I sincerely hope I don't fall down that slope, I find I am getting increasingly impatient and have to be careful of what I say.

My husband is home only about 2 1/2 weeks out of 8 gone.  He leaves Tuesday afternoon.  Today he was over at MIL's working on her sisters car.  I didn't say anything but I didn't like it.  He called her son and said he thought he fixed it.  He lives in northern Indiana and they are dealing with his wifes mother who is 88 also.  They want the sister, his mom, to move up there where both can be taken care of easier, but no way.

It's just like yesterday my MIL called her lights were flashing off and on on her car, she had to go get her sister and had no idea what it was.  I figured the safety flashers and it was, she had no idea what it was and no idea how to turn them off.  She was sitting in the car with her house phone, she has no cell, and her purse. I ask her about the phone so she takes it in the house and her purse with her.  She loses it all the time and I have to go over to find it because somebody stole it again. I go over and fix the televisions as she can't remember how to use the remote and has them scrambled all the time. Has no idea how much money she has, I tell her everytime I talk to her and her neighbor says she tells her she doesn't know if she has any money, she does. Another day she comes over to tell me someone stole $40 out of her purse, later told a neighbor she found it.  She tells her she doesn't think she has any propane, I fill it for the winter and pay for her whole winters worth.  Hubby was over one day with me helping find her purse.  She just knew someone had broken in this time, that I would never find it, I had a pretty good idea of the general area where it was from looking before.  She was going to drive about 10 to 12 miles it was in the 30's.  She did not have a coat on, a hat, no gloves, but a sweatshirt top.  Last week I filled her car up as it was almost empty and we didn't know if she  realized it.  I told hubby if she breaks down she will get pneumonia or freeze, now she does have an almost new car a 2011 with about 10,000 miles on it, but still you never know.  He says well what can I do about it?  Nothing I know. 

I talked to the aunts son some today and we all agree they both need to go to assisted living.  She supposedly has quit caring for the old guy, this goes on about monthly.  He is in such condition and so huge she has hurt her back trying to care for him.  His kids want him in a nursing home, he can't get anyone else to come in, she says she has stopped we will see, he has a part time lady supposed to be there. He is supposed to be paying her $100 a week, $400 a month for live in 24/hr a day care, wow and wow again.  But her son said he never saw her deposit any money so they doubt she is even getting paid and doesn't even realize it.  So I don't know if it will be better or worse, she hates all MIL's neighbors, she is paranoid someone is breaking in stealing we all know its not so and gets MIL all wrapped up in that stuff.  I think she will have the neighborhood in constant turmoil. I had a huge outside light put up as its very dark where her house is and next to an empty church, the neighbors are down the other way, a cluster of 6 houses in what used to be a grain elevator stop. Now you can see all around her house and back to her sisters trailer, it needed done, she wouldn't and I just did it. And she is like the other man said, talks incessantly about stuff I've heard 50 or 100 times and I can't stand the repetition for very long.  I told the son I'm out of here to Texas and Florida, he is too as of Jan for 3 months.  Like I told him nothing I can do anyway and I'm not staying here, he said the same.  It's bad when people like us are getting old and waited all our lives to live for a bit and things like this happen.  I told hubby I will likely nomore get to Texas or Florida before I have people calling telling me I need to come home and do what?  Guess I will wait and see because there is nothing I can do basically, but this is a continued stressor and I'm not handling stress as well as I used to.  And I will quit complaining as its a pretty similar decline for the ones with memory issues.  Ours will be crisis management and not good, if you can do it get parents to do a POA so you can do what is needed when the time comes, don't wait thinking they will do what is necessary willingly, many won't.  And on that note good night.

Pat, see her doctor and make sure he is aware of what's going on with her. She's not going to get better. PLEASE GET HIM TO HAVE THE STATE GET HER OFF THE ROAD!!! She has had a long life. The family she plows into might not get that.

Carolyn, has anyone thought about getting both the sisters to the same assisted living facility?  Maybe if they could go together they might be more willing to go.  Not an easy situation!

ArdraF

Her doctor, your kidding right?  She will not go to a doctor, does not even have a family doctor. She is never sick, isn't that amazing, I tried to talk with her and tell her with her memory issues they might be able to help, not cure it but help her.  I have tried to get her to go.
Neither sister is going to do anything.  She is most likely going to lose her license in Feb, we hope so.  I think the sister has quit for sure finally so they won't drive much at all. Neither wants to go anywhere, her car is a 2011 with 10,000 miles on it. Only place she goes is to the grocery, she goes the back roads and only crosses a highway in one place, she doesn't even get on it.

I have talked and talked to her about assisted living, she said that's a nursing home to her and she wasn't going, so I just quit. 

Tom's cousin and he both agree what needs to be done, but neither sister is going to do it.  The neighbors worry she will eventually
get lost, when we have to go find her will have her evaluated and do something then.  It's really hard to do anything with people if
they are not cooperative.  Tom has already talked to our attorney and he said if I need to start guardianship while he is gone he
will sign so I can start what needs to be done. It's a difficult situation when you have an uncooperative parent.  We had everything
else taken care of but the POA was the last thing and she wouldn't go sign it.

I had, what we think was food poisoning the other night and Tom had to take me to the ER.  Now you want to hear this, his mother is 88.  Hasn't driven more then 7 or 20 miles at a time in probably 15 years.  She said she will take Tom to the airport.  I told Tom, can you imagine,
she would be lost before she got out of Terre Haute, he just shook his head on that one.  Poor lady.

I'm sure most who have dealt with the elderly know this but when funds run out and Long Term Care (nursing home) is your last option, then you rely on Medicaid to take care of the person by taking their social security and any funds left in bank accounts and providing the care in the nursing home.  Medicaid is run by the individual states with basically the same rules but they allow the person a limited amount of money ($50 per month in my state) and take all other funds.  Burial insurance or prearranged funeral expenses are not taken.  The care is exactly the same but nursing homes normally have a set number of beds for Medicaid patients and others for private pay patients.  Some nursing homes do not take Medicaid patients.  My mother-in-law is currently in private pay but if she goes about 2 more years she will need to go on Medicaid.  The family is NOT required to pay Medicaid but be aware that there is also a check of the patients bank accounts going back about 3 years to be sure the family did not deliberately drain the accounts before applying for Medicaid.  There are more ins and outs to the program but do check into it with your local county social services office.

There are more ins and outs to the program but do check into it with your local county social services office.

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Its also not a bad idea to talk to an estate attorney several years before you think you will need it. There are ways of gifting what would be an inheritance to the children or other relatives ahead of time before they get so sick and before medicaid can penalize them. It actually makes sense to do something like that if you can, rather than waiting till the parents are dead. Less fighting over their stuff among the siblings.

The lookback is 5 years, used to be 3.

We ran out of money for mom about 2 months before she died, she was on Medicaid only a short time.

I expect MIL to live a long time, its her mind that's going.  Apparently her sister has written 2 $1000 checks this
week then tried to get more out of her account, bank said she didn't have enough.  She called her son and said she
didn't have any money, He looked online and saw the checks, said she had written them no one else.  He said she
even writes counter checks.  She doesn't have a clue what she did with the money, I guess doesn't even realize it was
her that got it.  My MIL was all distressed the last few days saying her nephew was watching everything his mom
spent and asking her about it.  Had her all upset, I know she doesn't realize anymore then her sister what is going
on. I figure one or both of them hid the money and don't know where.  I think the 2 live in a constant state of searching for purses, keys, etc.  MIL says well I have to take care of her. Her son said guess I will just have to send her a weekly check, I told him today, you know this is coming to an end, he said yes I know.  But they also have his wifes mother to deal with, man two of them.  I never saw 2 guys that can't do what needs to be done.