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Author Topic: Now the TV Will not turn ON  (Read 5339 times)

jglass

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Now the TV Will not turn ON
« on: December 17, 2014, 09:43:52 PM »
2004 Brave
OK, Tonight, running on the house batteries, I investigated how many outlets had power when I turned on the DC/AC inverter.   It appears only the front and rear TV outlets receive power from the inverter.

Next I tried turning on the TV from the inverter and nothing.   The digital/analog converter is also dead and so is the VCR and disk player.   Then I turned off the DC/AC inverter and started up the generator and still no TV and no converter.   Way in the back of the cabinet I could see an outlet with something plugged in, the other opening vacant so I plugged in a 120v light and it worked.   I checked all the outlets in the area and they all have AC power.   What is up with the TV?   It worked fine last night from both the inverter and AC power.  I checked all the circuit breakers and they are ok.

I suspect the inverter.   There must be a circuit to protect the inverter when the generator is on or connected to AC power.

Ok, I did another test and the rear TV outlet is now dead.  I tested that outlet with one of those lighted receptacle testers.   I'll bet that did something to the inverter???

Near the inverter ON/OFF switch I see what looks like some GFI push buttons and the word "Leviton".   I'll bet that thing needs to be reset?


Edit by staff - changed message icon to topic solved
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 11:45:02 AM by John Canfield »
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Kevin Means

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 01:55:34 AM »
Yeah, my bet is your GFI popped. It's really just a super sensitive circuit breaker. Anything downstream of it will also stop working. If that's not it check your breaker panel.

Kev
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 01:58:40 AM by Kevin Means »
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Wizard46

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 07:50:26 AM »
Also keep in mind that on most coaches the tv won't work with the engine running.
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jglass

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 07:54:35 AM »
Kevin;   Thanks for the reply.   I checked the breakers.  Also tried to reset the
GFI.   I think the problem is there.   It is only 20 degrees here today, could the cold have an effect on this?    I'm warming up the camper right now.

When I first turned on the inverter I could hear a whine sound like a computer hard drive.  I don't hear that sound when I turn on the inverter.

I tried the TEST and RESET buttons on the GFI and nothing seems to happen.   I'm fairly sure it is something simple, maybe the cold.

These motorhomes always have a learning process.

The motor is not running.
Jim
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 07:56:47 AM by jglass »
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John Hilley

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 09:11:06 AM »
The inverter has a built in transfer switch. When it senses shore power it passes through the inverter. The problem appears to be inverter related. What you heard when the inverter was turned on was probably it's cooling fan. The receptacle that you got a live test on should be on the inverter. You can down load the wiring diagrams.

2004 Brave Wiring Diagram
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2004/04_f32v_wire_145407.pdf

It looks like only the two TVs and satellite receiver are powered by the inverter.

The diagram is for the 2004 Brave 32V. If yours is different, what is the model?. It should be the same.
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jglass

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 11:20:33 AM »
Here is a pic of the inverter center;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/100_0039.jpg

Here is the plug way in the back, there is power there:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/100_0040.jpg

Is there a chance I'll need to replace the inverter?   The wiring diagram pretty much verifies what I have.   The systems that receive power from the inverter are dead while everything else works.

Where do I find a replacement inverter and how much do they cost?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:27:10 AM by jglass »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2014, 11:38:38 AM »
Try plugging your test light into the same receptacle as the tv is now in. You may find that you have power in only one of the two receptacles in that outlet. There is an interlock gadget that prevents power to that outlet when the ignition switch is on (required safety feature). The interlock may have failed, or something may be fooling it into thinking the ignition is on (it senses 12v on a ire that goes to the switch).

And make sure the ignition switch is indeed turned off.
Gary
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

jglass

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2014, 01:41:54 PM »
Gary;   Thanks for the reply.   But, the inverter worked fine one day and again the second day until I used the outlet tester.   Something happened after I tested the bedroom outlet.

Without tearing into inverter, the only thing I have to check is the outlet in the back of the cabinet to verify both openings have power.  I checked one opening and it has power.   I need to verify the item plugged in is receiving power.

I need to get this resolved, we leave for Florida  a week from tomorrow.
Jim
So much to learn, so little time

John Hilley

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 04:45:24 PM »
Here is the WIT Tip on Dimensioons inverters.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVjEPWJNUBDgATAoPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZDBpbXI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1418971280/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.winnebagoind.com%2fresources%2fservice%2fpdfs%2f2002-06%2520Dimensions%2520Power%2520Inverter.pdf/RK=0/RS=wK4pRYoa3eJBJkt6MeErJmh.vkk-

Does it work on shore power? If not it most surely is the GFCI/Breaker.

Unplug the 120 vac cord of the inverter and see if there is power to the receptacle.
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jglass

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 05:32:07 PM »
"Does it work on shore power? If not it most surely is the GFCI/Breaker."
No, it does not work with shore power or battery power.   However, the inverter ON light will light when shore power is disconnected.


Ok, I checked the other opening of the outlet and it also has AC.   When I unplugged the inverter the green light went out that indicates an outside AC power source.   I checked the outlet anyway with a 60 watt light and there is AC power at both openings.

In the wire diagram they show a DC fuse.   Is there an internal fuse or does this indicate the circuit breaker in the coach breaker panel.

Looking like the GFI is the problem.   I push TEST then RESET and it just does not feel right.    To me the RESET button needs to stay pushed in but fails to latch and remain depressed.   I even tried the RESET button with no power on all and it does the same thing.

I'm going to read the owners manual on the inverter.
Jim
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 05:39:25 PM by jglass »
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Mavarick

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2014, 07:24:55 PM »
The inverter on light is working correctly, on when no shore power and blinking in standby (sometimes off in standby) when you have shore power.
The outlet does not have power when plugged into shore power so go back to your GFI outlet. It has to reset to feed ac power to itself and all outlets downstream of it. If it has no ac power to it then you have a tripped breaker feeding the GFI outlet. This assumes you are getting ac into the rest of the MH when plugged in. If you have ac power to the outlet and it won't reset where you see ac power at the plug then the GFI outlet has probably went bad. Remove the GFI outlet and check the feed wires to it to see if you actually have ac power to it, if so replace it from HD. You have to verify one way or the other the GFI is working. Once the outlets are working again on shore power then unplug and see if there are any problems with the inverter.
As Gary mentioned make sure you ign switch is off, and, remove the key. Sometimes just the key being in the switch will stop your awning and things from working even if it is off.
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Steve-n-Sue

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 07:51:32 PM »
As a "recovering" electrician, I suspect a GFCI has tripped. A lot of testers will cause them to trip. Most will not reset without power going to them. Check all breakers, make sure you turn them completely OFF to reset them before turning them back on. After resetting all 120v. Breakers, try the reset on the GFCI. It is possible to have a bad GFCI, BUT NOT LIKELY.
 If you are COMPETENT to do electrical troubleshooting,  remove the cover of the GFCI, and test for incoming power. If power is present at incoming line , and GFCI won't reset, replace GFCI. If it does reset there should be power on both "LINE" and "LOAD" terminals.

Hope this helps!
Steve-n-Sue
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John Hilley

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 08:40:26 PM »
For the GFCI breaker to reset it needs AC power, so make sure the inverter is plugged into the receptacle that you tested and found live. The GFCI on the inverter is a GFCI breaker and not a receptacle. Yes, I believe there is an internal fuse. It looks like there is a GFCI breaker and a breaker beside it. The breaker beside it must be a 12 vdc breaker.
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jglass

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 09:07:59 PM »
I read the owners manual and I have a Dimensions Unlimited, Inc inverter
#WIN-12/300.  The owners manual instructs some checks to be made, which I have
already done, after that call their tech support which I will do tomorrow and order parts if needed.   Apparently tech support can diagnose possible problems by finding out which lights are ON  or OFF and switch positions.

The picture in the link below.   The green light verifies the inverter has AC power.   The RED light on the digital/analog converter verifies it has DC power.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/100_0039.jpg)

Just now I tried to reset the GFCI with the AC power on and it is still a no go. And the keys are NOT in the ignition.

Thanks for all the help,
Jim
So much to learn, so little time

jglass

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Re:TV Will not turn ON/ I got it!!!!
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2014, 11:30:54 AM »
OK....I GOT IT!!!!!!

I called Dimension Unlimited tech support first thing this morning.   I explained the situation to the tech guy and he said my problem is either the GFCI or a tripped breaker, most likely the GFCI.   He went on to say Lowes building supplies had replacement GFI's or they could be ordered from Dimension.   I snapped a pic of the GFI with my I-phone and off to Lowes I went.   Took some time but found the GFI, only $15.

I partially removed the inverter.   Had to drill out pop rivets to open up the case.   After that changing out the GFI was easy.

Removing the inverter:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/removinginverter.jpg

Inside of inverter:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/inverterinside.jpg

Swapping out the GFCI
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/GFIchangeover.jpg

Pop Riveting the case closed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/assemblyifinverter.jpg

DON'T EVER TEST AN INVERTER WITH A LIGHTED OUTLET TESTER

Thank you all for your encouragement and support, the problem has been resolved.
Jim



« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 11:47:21 AM by jglass »
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John Canfield

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2014, 11:44:11 AM »
Hey - good for you Jim!  You saved yourself a bunch of $$.
--John
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Kevin Means

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2014, 12:03:35 PM »
Great job Jim. Glad you were able to do it yourself and get back to RVing!!

Kev
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John Hilley

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2014, 03:22:30 PM »
Good work Jim.

However, I think

Quote
DON'T EVER TEST AN INVERTER WITH A LIGHTED OUTLET TESTER

is necessarily true. As an electrician I have tested GFCI circuits with the three light tester without any incidents, including any inverters I have worked with. I think your problem was coincidental. I actually use a three light tester to test GFCI circuits. They are just neon bulbs with a very high impedance.
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jglass

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Re: TV Will not turn ON, GOT IT WORKING
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2014, 06:21:18 PM »
Hey John:   The plot thickens.  While cleaning up my mess I decided to plug my lighted outlet tester into an outlet near the door as a convenient place to observe AC voltage in the camper.   When I plugged it in the outlet went dead.   Checked all the breakers and they are OK then checked to see what other outlets could be effected
and found one dead at the kitchen counter and another in the bath.   Does this sound familiar?????    I was about ready to open the switch panel.    The dead outlet was right above the breaker panel.   I crouched down then looked at the dead outlet faceplate.  Guess what, it is a GFI outlet???   I reset the GFI outlet and that restored
AC power to the dead outlets!!!!

I'm beginning to think the lighted tester is either defective or just bad news for GFCI circuits.   I'm going to find another way to check outlets and stop using the old one,, maybe toss it.

Finally told the wife what I did to the inverter.  She shakes her head.   I told her it was frustrating but that is how we learn about these RV systems.   I learned a bunch of stuff this week.
Jim
So much to learn, so little time

John Hilley

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 07:45:09 PM »
I think that tester must be somewhat defective. Did it come from Harbor Freight? The ones I generally use are Ideal or GC, although I have used Harbor Freight without problems. I use a small night light plugged into a inverter receptacle on the end of the kitchen counter to let me know when the inverter is on. At least you went all the way and proved the tester caused the problem. That tester might make a nice GFCI tester, you know it trips them.
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jglass

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Re: Everything explained, Inverter works, tester explained
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2014, 08:56:42 AM »
EVERYTHNG EXPLAINED:

The lighted outlet tester is not defective.   There is a small black button on the tester and the purpose is for testing GFI circuits.   Not knowing the purpose of the button I inadvertently depressed the button thus tripping the GFI.    This does not completely explain why the GFCI in my inverter failed but I'm confident the tester was the cause.
I should say, me pushing the button on the tester was the cause.

I just learn more stuff every day!!!!
http://www.idealindustries.ca/products/test_measurement/electrical_testers/receptable_testers.php
Jim

« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 08:59:06 AM by jglass »
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John Hilley

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Re: Now the TV Will not turn ON
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2014, 09:06:16 AM »
Thanks for following through Jim. Now every thing is clear. Must just have been a faulty reset on the inverter GFCI.
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aauummm

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Bad GFCI on the inverter here also
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2017, 12:17:53 PM »
OK....I GOT IT!!!!!!

I called Dimension Unlimited tech support first thing this morning.   I explained the situation to the tech guy and he said my problem is either the GFCI or a tripped breaker, most likely the GFCI.   He went on to say Lowes building supplies had replacement GFI's or they could be ordered from Dimension.   I snapped a pic of the GFI with my I-phone and off to Lowes I went.   Took some time but found the GFI, only $15.

I partially removed the inverter.   Had to drill out pop rivets to open up the case.   After that changing out the GFI was easy.

Removing the inverter:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/removinginverter.jpg

Inside of inverter:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/inverterinside.jpg

Swapping out the GFCI
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/GFIchangeover.jpg

Pop Riveting the case closed
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Motorhome/assemblyifinverter.jpg

DON'T EVER TEST AN INVERTER WITH A LIGHTED OUTLET TESTER

Thank you all for your encouragement and support, the problem has been resolved.
Jim

Just wanted to thank you for your posts and pictures.  I have a 2010 Itasca Sunova 33C that the built-in GFCI in the inverter went bad.  Your description and pictures of the process to replace the GFCI gave me the confidence to tear into it and replace it.  It was quite a chore getting the inverter out as it is built in to a wall with very limited access. The rivets on the inverter really had me leery, but since you had drilled yours out, I did mine that way too.  The original Leviton GFCI with the blank face is no longer made but I was able to get a replacement Leviton with a blank face at Home Depot.  It works perfectly.  I also found out that the Dimensions inverter is no longer made in the original form factor, so it better last!  Thanks again!

 

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