Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher

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catblaster said:
I don't remember many people saying they were going to upgrade to a gasser, or a Harley owner saying "It sounds just like a honda"

Yes, because when they upgrade, they go from a gasser to a gasser.  Class C to Class A usually, but occasionally, they upgrade from a Class A to a Class C, like Oscar Mike.  If you have something you really don't like, and move to something you like more, I call that an upgrade.
 
I'm thinking the next motorhome I may buy will be a Lazy-Daze class C. 

They are really well made with polyurethane laminated aircraft aluminum coach body panels and one piece aluminum roof, plus and you can drive and park them anywhere, all state beaches and campgrounds as well as really well in metro areas.

they have a very efficient interior layout and all the Quality of a very high end motorhome....

they come on the Ford F450 chassis V10 305 HP, 425 ft lbs motor and the standard tow rating is 4k lb.

the bad news is....they ain't cheap, the base 31 footer is $101 k. and they go up with the more options.

I wonder if the days of 45 foot long, 50k lb. 3 axle fiberglass monsters are numbered.....I talk to a lot of older Grama/Grampa type people that come into the park with these cool new Mercedes and Dodge Sprinter based Winnebago and Airstream motorhomes, and some say they traded in their older 8 MPG class A diesel rigs for a smaller more drivable rig.

it appears that many people are re thinking the "Bigger is better" thing in cars, houses ....and motorhomes.
 
TonyDtorch said:
I wonder if the days of 45 foot long, 50k lb. 3 axle fiberglass monsters are numbered.....I talk to a lot of older Grama/Grampa type people that come into the park with these cool new Mercedes and Dodge Sprinter based Winnebago and Airstream motorhomes, and some say they traded in their older 8 MPG class A diesel rigs for a smaller more drivable rig.

it appears that many people are re thinking the "Bigger is better" thing in cars, houses ....and motorhomes.

Sure they are. Everyone is downsizing, buying smaller and smaller. That's why the 3 best selling cars in America are full size pickup trucks. Dodge is #3, Chevy is #2 and Ford #1. The F-150 has been the best selling car in America for how many years running? That's because everyone is downsizing. You can say it, but the facts don't support what you're saying.

Ken
 
bucks2 said:
Sure they are. Everyone is downsizing, buying smaller and smaller. That's why the 3 best selling cars in America are full size pickup trucks. Dodge is #3, Chevy is #2 and Ford #1. The F-150 has been the best selling car in America for how many years running? That's because everyone is downsizing. You can say it, but the facts don't support what you're saying.

Ken

It must have changed..... now an F150 is a car  ?    I didn't know that. ....

it would be fun the take your best selling Ford F150 Car out to a nice dinner and have it valet parked,.. they'd tell you that deliveries are around in the back of the restaurant...

yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )

so no one is downsizing...  I wonder why Ford is no longer making the Crown Victoria, and try ordering a new Lincoln Towncar. (yes that means the limo company may pick you up in a black mini van )

the largest car Ford sells this year is the Ford Taurus .......... why is that Ken?


as of Aug. 2014 here is the actual list of the top 10 best selling CARS (not trucks) in America...

#1
Honda Accord

#2
Toyota Camry

#3
Honda Civic

#4
Toyota Corolla/Matrix

#5
Nissan Altima

#6
Ford Fusion

#7
Chevrolet Cruze

#8
Hyundai Elantra

#9
Ford Focus

#10
Hyundai Sonata

Things have changed Ken,  the Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Electra, and the Olds Delta 88 did not make the list..
 
TonyDtorch said:
yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )

Absolute blasphemy!!  Someone is misreporting......I know the Ram/Cummins pickup is at the top....  ;D
 
TonyDtorch said:
It must have changed..... now an F150 is a car  ?    I didn't know that. ....

it would be fun the take your best selling Ford F150 Car out to a nice dinner and have it valet parked,.. they'd tell you that deliveries are around in the back of the restaurant...

yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )

so no one is downsizing...  I wonder why Ford is no longer making the Crown Victoria, and try ordering a new Lincoln Towncar. (yes that means the limo company may pick you up in a black mini van )

the largest car Ford sells this year is the Ford Taurus .......... why is that Ken?


as of Aug. 2014 here is the actual list of the top 10 best selling CARS (not trucks) in America...

#1
Honda Accord

#2
Toyota Camry

#3
Honda Civic

#4
Toyota Corolla/Matrix

#5
Nissan Altima

#6
Ford Fusion

#7
Chevrolet Cruze

#8
Hyundai Elantra

#9
Ford Focus

#10
Hyundai Sonata

Things have changed Ken,  the Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Electra, and the Olds Delta 88 did not make the list..

I think those are the top 10 cars involved in fatal accidents in Texas.  It seems like the drivers of those vehicles are always complaining about "all the SUV's and PU's" on the roads in TX.  They report that people in those vehicles , are more likely to get injured or killed in accidents.  I don't think that needs to be reported, a basic physics book will explain why a 1500 lb vehicle will lose to a 6,000 lb vehicle. 

PU's and SUV's are a different segment, and reported on a different list.  They are the largest segment in Texas.  Other regions may have different needs, thus other vehicles may be in the majority there. 
 
I don't think experiences before 2007 have much relevance. The game changed when Ford, about that time, introduced the Ford F-series, super duty class A motorhome chassis.

-There are a lot of dp's sold, but there are a lot of gas mhs sold as well, so that is not a useful argument.
-General statements are not useful.
-Yes the gas is not as quiet, but current owners, especially of the quality gas like Newmar don't consider it an issue and I'm told aren't bothering trying to upgrade the sound deadening like the "older" gassers. '
- What is really amazing and unsaid are all these tough built dps with low mileage and high years being sold. So, why weren't they being driven????
-Gas owners like doing their own maintenance and getting service is easier across the country.
-If you want to impress the oldsters, buy a dp, but don't forget to buy a tag axel, and you must be new, and something like an Essex, then you can park and impress.
- If you want an hydronic heating system, then it is a dp for you.
- You can "stress" that gas mh now to 200,000 miles - that is forever as mhs go. The V10 was built for that stress, just maintain it and change your fluids regularly and don't forget the transmission.
- If you go full time you will want the longest coach you can get...that's a dp. If you don't drive it you would be better in a mobile home or a 5th wheel.
- If you want disability access, probably a dp, for the bus like hydraulic entry way.

From another forum:
"I was asked this question hundreds of times as a service manager. If you are going to full time and travel a lot. The diesel is usually a better deal. It rides better because of the heavier weight. The engine and transmission are heavier duty and will last longer. The rear engine is MUCH quieter. If you are going to use it on some weekends and vacation, the gas is a better deal. Maintenance is much, much cheaper on the gas. Some will tell you that a gas will not last long. That is a bunch of crap. We had several commercial customers who put well over 200,000 miles on their coaches."

From another forum:
The owner of a short dp Tiffin Breeze 32, who loves the suspension, is planning on turning it in for a 36 ft gas.
They took it on a 6 month trip.

Just a thought. A 36 ft gas is a very sweet spot for a gas mh.

My personal estimate is that if you buy that 10 year old dp, you will spend at least $20,000 getting it ready for the road. Not just on undone maintenance, appliances that need to be replaced, but also upgrading that old interior. And this assumes you can find one that hasn't been smoked in or had pets inside. It isn't uncommon for that excellent condition coach to have all sorts of problems from undone maintenance that "excellent" somehow and mysteriously didn't cover.

Last question: How much time will you drive and how much time will you actually get out of the mh and enjoy yourself??? And how much time will you spend inside??? Would someone who bought a new dp ever argue it is cost justified and they "needed" it because of it was quiet?

If I buy a 10 year old dp, it will be for the "challenge" of buying used and the "fun" of doing the upgrades to personalize the rig.  And no, I'm not being sarcastic.  And yes, I would like an hydronic heating system. Old age and comfort go together, and I would kill for a "quiet" ride and I really like exhaust breaking, don't care about how fast I climb, and my butt gets tired easily these days, so the softer ride the better. Yes, if I was a young stud, I would buy gas and leave the dps to the old farts. 

And yes, I have the cash for the old dp and the upgrades. Old farts like me generally don't like monthly payments. And we have more time to fix things and kind of like doing so.
 
The game changed when Ford, about that time, introduced the Ford F-series, super duty class A motorhome chassis.

The Ford F53 motorhome chassis has been around a lot longer than that, since at least 1990. But I'll grant that gas motorhome chassis have come along way in recent years. The game changer was the introduction of the Workhorse W22 chassis in late 2001, designed from the ground up as a large motorhome platform with a heavy duty 5-speed transmission, 22,000 lb GVWR, dropped engine position (for a flatter floor), big brakes and wheels, a rigid 50,000 psi steel frame, etc. Ford has to scramble to catch up, which they did by 2006 or 2007 and now dominate the gas chassis market again.
 
rvgary said:
Very few Ford dealers will do warranty work on the E450 engine and Chassis.

there is 2 Ford dealers here in my city.

both of them will service V10 motorhomes as will most every independent shop.....but I do my own service ....it's just a gas motor.

I had a Ford powered crane truck once, it was a 10 wheel, 10 speed, air brakes truck that went through scales unloaded at 54k lbs,
it went up and down every mountain in the western U.S....and it was a 572 cubic inch gas motor.
 
99WinAdventurer37G said:
I think those are the top 10 cars involved in fatal accidents in Texas.  It seems like the drivers of those vehicles are always complaining about "all the SUV's and PU's" on the roads in TX.  They report that people in those vehicles , are more likely to get injured or killed in accidents.  I don't think that needs to be reported, a basic physics book will explain why a 1500 lb vehicle will lose to a 6,000 lb vehicle. 

PU's and SUV's are a different segment, and reported on a different list.  They are the largest segment in Texas.  Other regions may have different needs, thus other vehicles may be in the majority there.

hell....the hats they wear in Texas won't even fit in most new cars....why do you think everyone refers to 4 door pickups as "Cowboy Cadillacs".
 
TonyDtorch said:
It must have changed..... now an F150 is a car  ?    I didn't know that. ....

it would be fun the take your best selling Ford F150 Car out to a nice dinner and have it valet parked,.. they'd tell you that deliveries are around in the back of the restaurant...

yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )

so no one is downsizing...  I wonder why Ford is no longer making the Crown Victoria, and try ordering a new Lincoln Towncar. (yes that means the limo company may pick you up in a black mini van )

(snip)
Things have changed Ken,  the Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Electra, and the Olds Delta 88 did not make the list..

My appologies Tony, I just reported what the news articles say. I didn't parse THEIR words between pickups and sedans. For example this site, http://www.businessinsider.com/best-selling-cars-in-december-2013-2014-1#1-ford-f-series-21. You really should take this up with them and keep the use of the english language pure.

My silverado has been valet parked half a dozen times already. No mention of deliveries. Then again maybe I don't go to fancy enough places just to impress others. I've been told a Toyota gets you somewhere just like a Caddy. Because it's a "car" by your definition, would you rather take an 89 Celica to the valet?

I can't find where Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Electra or Olds Delta 88 were ever on the top 10 best seller list. So explain to me how that proves people are downsizing? Large luxury units are never aimed at the mass market. Sales of Mercedes S Class cars are rising each year. A more comfortable car I've never driven. Perhaps the Crown Vic just couldn't compete. But the loss of one car model doesn't mean people aren't buying large cars and more luxurious cars.

Ken
 
Cadillac's second best selling model is the big Escalade SUV, not one of the "car" models. It's their largest, heaviest and most gas-guzzling model as well. And I don't think they get turned away by valets either. Their top seller is the SRX SUV, but that's a more car-like crossover type.
 
bucks2 said:
  Perhaps the Crown Vic just couldn't compete. But the loss of one car model doesn't mean people aren't buying large cars and more luxurious cars.

Ken

"couldn't compete ?"    they had a locked in market !!.......The Crown Vic made up 99% of police cars, the Lincoln Town Car was the prefered car for limo services. now days most LEO agencies have switched to the smaller Dodge Charger (one of the last rear wheel drive cars made) and many limo services have gone to the smaller Cadillac XTS and some are using the Chrysler Town and country minivan.

Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls are still making the "Extended door" livery cars, but the use of an American made SUV as a limo is still not well received in the limo world. the rear door is just too small........the Mercedes limo van is popular. 

fact is....the days of massive American made full frame, rear wheel drive, V8 cars have come to an end .

 
Looks like Gary is trying to get us back on track.  Enjoyed the comments, even the way off track ones.  However, please stick with the original question.  Thanks! ;D
 
Been there.  Bought a used V-10.. 2005 Fleetwood Southwind  32ft. in 2008.  Loved it.  But after 6 years of travel and towing... Noise does matter.  Hills and Mountains do matter.  Being able to now trade in or sell on the open market to upgrade does matter.  Mileage and power for mountain climbs matters.  There are DP's out the with great layouts as well.  It took us time to find a used DP. 2011 with low miles, excellent condition.  Had I known my wife and I were going to enjoy traveling like this sooner, we would have chosen the DP off the bat.  Hope this helps.
 
I think it all comes down to "Budget"

obviously if your budget allows you to buy a modern layout, multi slide, diesel pusher....(the Winnebago Tour is cool! ) then, buy that.

on a much lower budget and you are planning on spending the majority of your time going 65 mph.....  then an older no-slide DP is actually better.

but remember that tires, roof, and other maintenance items need to be figured into the budget,  the older the rig the more likely some repairs are needed, and diesel repair and maintenance is more expensive.

Budget restrictions and all those things considered, and/or if a "family style layout" is important for camping,  then you may want to consider a newer gas rig.

many of the DP interiors are designed for Grama and Grampa.
 
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