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Author Topic: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher  (Read 7740 times)

1PlasticMan1

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Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« on: February 20, 2015, 02:04:29 PM »
We are looking to purchase an A MH.  Really would like to get a pusher as I want to tow a 2008 Chrysler T&C (4,621lbs), but not finding one that is a few years old that works in our budget.  Intend to spend considerable time traveling mountainous areas - ie: Rte 70 in Colorado.  Am concerned about how the Ford will hold up.  Seems all the manufactures use this engine as the engine of choice.  I test drove a 2014 A gas, and found it to be very noisy and straining just going up 2% - 5% grades.  Any thoughts?
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2010 LR2
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JudyJB

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2015, 05:30:46 PM »
Mine is certainly noisy and that bothered me a lot at first, but it gets me up the hills and mountains. When you push it going up hill and it downshifts, it actually "roars"!  However, I have had absolutely no problems with it in the past almost three years and 53,000 miles of traveling, much of it in mountainous areas.  I also have driven it in 100 degree weather, up very long grades, and the temperature gauge never budged from the middle--in fact, I thought at first it had to be broken.

A diesel pusher will certainly be quieter, especially since it is in the rear of the vehicle, if noise bothers you.
Full-timing for over five years in a
2012 Fleetwood Tioga Ranger 31N

Koodog

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 07:02:22 PM »
I have a 36' Rexhall with a V10. Definitely winds out going up mountain passes. Living in Lyons, CO I cross trailridge several times a year. Its a pull but the Triton gets the job done. I try and keep RPM's under 4500. I'm always pulling a toad(Jeep Liberty), so not sure how it would do without the extra weight.
A diesel is a better model for mountain climbing in my opinion, but comes with a pretty hefty price tag. I'm happy with my purchase for the money. However my next rig will be a diesel. Saving up for that one now. It will be a while before I drop that much coin.
Interesting forum name. Are you actually in the plastics biz? I've been doing it for almost 40 years now.
02 Rexhall 3550BSL
Triton V10 powered
2003 Jeep Liberty Toad
Walt & Terry Sanford

RodgerS

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 07:18:59 PM »
I think it is an issue of buying new or used. Buy a new gas or an older diesel are your best money choices. Anything else is something else.

The gas suspensions at around 35 feet seem to be just as good as the diesel, based on my test drives and conversations with gas owners. When you hit 40 ft, you must go diesel. You can get a Newmar Canyon Star gas diesel equivalent, for the most part.

One gas owner I know feels that the best advantage of a dp is minimal rocking when you go through a corner. You won't hear that point of view very often.

A dp wins hands down as to noise and braking, and full time usage. A v10 can outrun many dps and is great for vacationers and toys and such...and some use them for full time as well.

Really, though, if you want to spend an extra $100k on a dp and can, well that is that, but don't try to cost justify it as it just isn't.

You can also buy a hd semi truck and pull what you want.

No, I don't think this is secret knowledge and of course it is personal.

RVing is at its best, as I see it, as an entertainment/vacation dream realized and as such is not a financial investment, but an entertainment cost. For some the dream can become a nightmare at times.

I have no clue what the full timers think as it is beyond my imagination wanting to live full time in something that was designed as a temporary mobile lodging. However, there are some people who are forced to live in something other than a brick/stick house...that is another issue.

Frankly, I also like spending time overseas and usually that takes a boat or plane to get me there, so $100,000 extra will pay for a lot of that...

Because I have taken the time to get my rv service technician training and rv inspection training, it is a good bet that I will end up with a used 99% perfect used diesel pusher as it simply would not be fun to buy new. However, what I think of as perfect is not what "some" will ever understand.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 07:23:28 PM by RodgerS »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 07:59:43 PM »
Since Workhorse went out of the RV gas chassis business several years ago, all the manufacturers use Ford chassis, so the V10 is the only game in town. It's a solid engine and powerful enough, but any front engine is relatively noisy and a gas engine has to rev high to produce full horsepower besides. As for towing, a Ford gas chassis is typically rated for 5000 lbs max tow.

But it sounds as though you would not be happy with the characteristics of a gas chassis. I suggest you go with a DP and increase that "few years old" until it fits in your budget. Nothing wrong with getting a 10 year old DP if it has been maintained reasonably well.
Gary
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Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Kevin Means

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 11:18:07 AM »
Your experience with the engine being noisy and "straining" when climbing grades is not unusual. The V-10 is a high reving engine compared to most of the other gas engines that were used in motorhomes, and it surprises people who haven't driven one. However if your concern is how well it will hold up, I don't think you have anything to worry about. That's a very refined engine.

We've owned a Class A with a Chevy 454, a Class A with a Ford V-10 and our current DP. The V-10 was noisier than the 454 when climbing grades but it had no problem at all pulling our 32 foot motorhome up those grades (although we weren't towing anything). We live just east of San Diego so pretty much every time we go camping we're climbing and descending miles of 6% grades. On flat roads we had no problems holding normal conversations.

There's no doubt that having the engine 40 feet behind you makes for a noticably quieter ride - especially when climbing grades - but we see RVs with Ford V-10s all the time and many are towing.

Kev
2011 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
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(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

1PlasticMan1

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2015, 12:03:01 PM »
Thank you all for your comments.  I have been wrestling with this for some time.  Additional $100K for less noise and greater torque, while the Triton engined floor layouts are more what I prefer, and everything I have read stesses that floor layout should be a top priority.
Koodog -  Your name is more interesting than mine.  I also have been in the plastics industry for over 40 years, the movie "Graduate" I don't think had anything to do with it, however, started working for a paper/packaging distributor, and found myself getting more involved in "visual" packaging and machinery.  Started climbing the ladder, decided to go out on my own, which I did, got four kids through college, eventually sold it, worked for the company that bought it for a while, then got an offer I could not refuse from a thermoformer, machine manufacturer, worked for them until I retired in 2008.  Still do some sourcing and consulting work.  Hope I haven't given you more info than wanted.
2016 Bounder 33C
2008 T&C - Ltd.
2010 LR2
and Frisco

Becks

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 12:18:57 PM »
It seems your needs would be best met going with a DP if budget allows. Yes floor plan is important, but not the only thing to consider. Good luck in your search.
2006 Travel Supreme
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2014 Jeep Rubicon/2003 Honda CRV

bucks2

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 02:34:26 PM »
Really? A diesel engine is an extra $100,000. That's just an amazing number. I might want to do a little more research before I just threw that number out there or believed it when it was.

"Really, though, if you want to spend an extra $100k on a dp"

" so $100,000 extra will pay for a lot of that"

"Additional $100K for less noise and greater torque,"

You might WILL find that the difference when comparing equal motorhomes is significantly less money.

Ken

Frank Hurst

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 03:07:01 PM »
Had a 1996 36 Ft with 456 chev and now have a 38 Ft 2003 dp with a 330 cat.  I could get up the hills with the 456 however it might slow. My biggest concern was going down hill. I feel much more secure going down hill in the dp.
Frank & Hilda Hurst
2003 Phaeton
2004 Malibu
Semi Retired Relief Veterinarian

TonyDtorch

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2015, 04:44:43 PM »
if you spend 95% of your time living in the motorhome and 5% of your time driving it then it stands to reason that the interior layout is more  important than the engine and trans.

and when it comes to interior layout the newer the motorhome the more updated and innovative the interior layout is.

yes you can get an older DP with a very dated interior and you will have an easier time going up and down the hills....and when you get to the place you are going you'll have to put up with the same old layout of a couch looking at a couch with a sideways TV thing.

bottom line is you'll get more slides and better layout with a newer gas coach for the same money as a older diesel pusher.

you need to decide where you want more of your money spent, drivability comfort or livability comfort .

the fuel milages are about the same, 6-10 mpg, gas is cheaper than diesel and the maintenance is more on the diesel
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 05:03:13 PM by TonyDtorch »

bucks2

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2015, 05:03:10 PM »
I wonder why so many people buy diesel pushers when there are so many disadvantages. Just seems wierd doesn't it?

Ken

TonyDtorch

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2015, 05:05:43 PM »
I wonder why so many people buy diesel pushers when there are so many disadvantages. Just seems wierd doesn't it?

Ken
me too !   the biggest disadvantage is the extra money you have tied up in it while it's parked.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 08:34:13 PM by TonyDtorch »

99WinAdventurer37G

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2015, 05:55:58 PM »
I believe torque, rear engine(read quiet), and high altitude performance are the reasons for a DP.  But I'd buy a new gas MH over a DP 2004 or newer.  If one can find a 2004 with a pre-egr motor, I'd be interested, but I have no use for a DP with an EGR, DPF, or SCR engine. 

It's like when they got rid of regular gas.  We had all kinds of problems with unleaded vehicles when they first came out, now they seem reliable up to about 150,000 miles.  Two friends recently bought new DP's and they been in the shop a full month each out of the last 6 months due to emission related problems.

But if, as Gary said, you can find an older one in good condition, I'd look for a 2003, even a 2004 may have a pre-egr motor in it, but I'd make sure it is a Pre-egr motor before I bought it.  Although Diesel is more expensive, they usually get a little better mpg to make up for it.  And torque that you can't beat with a gas motor. 

Another thing to consider with a larger gas that I found out, many fuel stops are a challenge to get in and out with a toad.  I'm just under 50' with my toad, so a small convenience store may not be a good choice for me, even if they're giving the gas away for free.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 37G , Ford V-10
2006 Honda VTX 1300S

bucks2

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2015, 08:08:50 PM »
me too !   the biggest disadvantage is the extra money you spent...

but  for many people it's very important to display the old  "mine is cost more than yours" thing..

... but in reality you can get somewhere in both a Toyota or a Bentley.

......... no one ever removes  Country Coach emblems

A bicycle will get you somewhere too. Is that Toyota owner trying to say something to the bicycle owner? I can't believe people buy new cars, you know a 30 year old Toyota will get you there too.......  You can live eating bugs and grass. But not many people enjoy living like that. Outhouses are cheaper than indoor plumbing, are people with indoor plumbing all on ego trips? I enjoy the comfort, quiet and convenience my rig gives me, I worked hard to earn the money to buy it, I don't care if anyone is impressed or not. I didn't buy it for them, I bought it for my comfort.  Others may vary but I have a hard time believing that all those people are on ego trips.

Ken

8Muddypaws

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2015, 09:35:07 PM »
Buy the floor plan your wife likes or regret it forever.  You can learn to deal with whichever engine it has.
Retired computer professional
Musician, songwriter and music director
2006 Bounder 34H, 2008 CR-V Toad

99WinAdventurer37G

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2015, 06:30:37 AM »
Buy the floor plan your wife likes or regret it forever.  You can learn to deal with whichever engine it has.

...Says a man with experience.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 37G , Ford V-10
2006 Honda VTX 1300S

John Beard

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2015, 07:11:59 AM »
I've had two motor homes with the V10, the Fleetwood Bounder had the 362 HP version, and my current Winnebago Aspect has the 305 HP version. Both are great engines. The Bounder would definitely wake you up when it downshifted pulling a grade, but once I learned where its "sweet spot" was it made for a more comfortable drive up and down those 6% grades we're famous for out west.

My Winnebago Aspect 30J towing a 2005 Jeep Wrangler (TJ) does a fine job up and down the same 6% grades. I make about 43-45 mph at about 2,800-3,200 RPMs on a long 6% grade. The noise is less in the E450 chassis than the F53 chassis, but when they are in the "sweet spot" on an uphill/downhill it is not too bad.

I will say that my next motor home will be a diesel...but until then the gasser does a fine job.
John & Susan
2014 Winnebago Aspect 30J
2005 Jeep Wrangler X, Toad, a little modified
Northwest Las Vegas, NV

Frizlefrak

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2015, 06:14:51 PM »
Buy the floor plan your wife likes or regret it forever.  You can learn to deal with whichever engine it has.

Happy wife, happy life....
2014 Ram 2500 Cummins
2012 Palomino 30' TT

catblaster

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2015, 06:24:51 PM »
I don't remember many people saying they were going to upgrade to a gasser, or a Harley owner saying "It sounds just like a honda"
Will and Jane
95 Winnebago Luxor

99WinAdventurer37G

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2015, 06:34:30 PM »
I don't remember many people saying they were going to upgrade to a gasser, or a Harley owner saying "It sounds just like a honda"

Yes, because when they upgrade, they go from a gasser to a gasser.  Class C to Class A usually, but occasionally, they upgrade from a Class A to a Class C, like Oscar Mike.  If you have something you really don't like, and move to something you like more, I call that an upgrade.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 37G , Ford V-10
2006 Honda VTX 1300S

vmax1

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2015, 07:51:41 PM »
Ford V-10

TonyDtorch

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2015, 08:49:34 PM »
I'm thinking the next motorhome I may buy will be a Lazy-Daze class C. 

They are really well made with polyurethane laminated aircraft aluminum coach body panels and one piece aluminum roof, plus and you can drive and park them anywhere, all state beaches and campgrounds as well as really well in metro areas.

 they have a very efficient interior layout and all the Quality of a very high end motorhome....

they come on the Ford F450 chassis V10 305 HP, 425 ft lbs motor and the standard tow rating is 4k lb.

the bad news is....they ain't cheap, the base 31 footer is $101 k. and they go up with the more options.

I wonder if the days of 45 foot long, 50k lb. 3 axle fiberglass monsters are numbered.....I talk to a lot of older Grama/Grampa type people that come into the park with these cool new Mercedes and Dodge Sprinter based Winnebago and Airstream motorhomes, and some say they traded in their older 8 MPG class A diesel rigs for a smaller more drivable rig.

 it appears that many people are re thinking the "Bigger is better" thing in cars, houses ....and motorhomes.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:17:26 PM by TonyDtorch »

bucks2

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2015, 09:53:28 PM »

I wonder if the days of 45 foot long, 50k lb. 3 axle fiberglass monsters are numbered.....I talk to a lot of older Grama/Grampa type people that come into the park with these cool new Mercedes and Dodge Sprinter based Winnebago and Airstream motorhomes, and some say they traded in their older 8 MPG class A diesel rigs for a smaller more drivable rig.

 it appears that many people are re thinking the "Bigger is better" thing in cars, houses ....and motorhomes.

Sure they are. Everyone is downsizing, buying smaller and smaller. That's why the 3 best selling cars in America are full size pickup trucks. Dodge is #3, Chevy is #2 and Ford #1. The F-150 has been the best selling car in America for how many years running? That's because everyone is downsizing. You can say it, but the facts don't support what you're saying.

Ken

Frizlefrak

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2015, 10:19:15 PM »
it appears that many people are re thinking the "Bigger is better" thing in cars, houses ....and motorhomes.

Good.  Leaves more resources for me to gobble up.  ;D
2014 Ram 2500 Cummins
2012 Palomino 30' TT

TonyDtorch

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2015, 10:34:23 PM »
Sure they are. Everyone is downsizing, buying smaller and smaller. That's why the 3 best selling cars in America are full size pickup trucks. Dodge is #3, Chevy is #2 and Ford #1. The F-150 has been the best selling car in America for how many years running? That's because everyone is downsizing. You can say it, but the facts don't support what you're saying.

Ken

It must have changed..... now an F150 is a car  ?    I didn't know that. ....
 
it would be fun the take your best selling Ford F150 Car out to a nice dinner and have it valet parked,.. they'd tell you that deliveries are around in the back of the restaurant...

yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )

so no one is downsizing...  I wonder why Ford is no longer making the Crown Victoria, and try ordering a new Lincoln Towncar. (yes that means the limo company may pick you up in a black mini van )

 the largest car Ford sells this year is the Ford Taurus .......... why is that Ken?


as of Aug. 2014 here is the actual list of the top 10 best selling CARS (not trucks) in America...

#1
Honda Accord

#2
Toyota Camry

#3
Honda Civic

#4
Toyota Corolla/Matrix

#5
Nissan Altima

#6
Ford Fusion

#7
Chevrolet Cruze

#8
Hyundai Elantra

#9
Ford Focus

#10
Hyundai Sonata

Things have changed Ken,   the Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Electra, and the Olds Delta 88 did not make the list..
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:49:34 AM by TonyDtorch »

Frizlefrak

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2015, 01:55:49 AM »

yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )


Absolute blasphemy!!  Someone is misreporting......I know the Ram/Cummins pickup is at the top....   ;D
2014 Ram 2500 Cummins
2012 Palomino 30' TT

99WinAdventurer37G

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2015, 06:06:14 AM »
It must have changed..... now an F150 is a car  ?    I didn't know that. ....
 
it would be fun the take your best selling Ford F150 Car out to a nice dinner and have it valet parked,.. they'd tell you that deliveries are around in the back of the restaurant...

yes,  the best selling  "vehicle"  is a Ford F150 truck...(sorry Friz )

so no one is downsizing...  I wonder why Ford is no longer making the Crown Victoria, and try ordering a new Lincoln Towncar. (yes that means the limo company may pick you up in a black mini van )

 the largest car Ford sells this year is the Ford Taurus .......... why is that Ken?


as of Aug. 2014 here is the actual list of the top 10 best selling CARS (not trucks) in America...

#1
Honda Accord

#2
Toyota Camry

#3
Honda Civic

#4
Toyota Corolla/Matrix

#5
Nissan Altima

#6
Ford Fusion

#7
Chevrolet Cruze

#8
Hyundai Elantra

#9
Ford Focus

#10
Hyundai Sonata

Things have changed Ken,   the Cadillac Fleetwood, Buick Electra, and the Olds Delta 88 did not make the list..

I think those are the top 10 cars involved in fatal accidents in Texas.  It seems like the drivers of those vehicles are always complaining about "all the SUV's and PU's" on the roads in TX.  They report that people in those vehicles , are more likely to get injured or killed in accidents.  I don't think that needs to be reported, a basic physics book will explain why a 1500 lb vehicle will lose to a 6,000 lb vehicle. 

PU's and SUV's are a different segment, and reported on a different list.  They are the largest segment in Texas.  Other regions may have different needs, thus other vehicles may be in the majority there. 
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 37G , Ford V-10
2006 Honda VTX 1300S

RodgerS

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2015, 07:13:38 AM »
I don't think experiences before 2007 have much relevance. The game changed when Ford, about that time, introduced the Ford F-series, super duty class A motorhome chassis.

-There are a lot of dp's sold, but there are a lot of gas mhs sold as well, so that is not a useful argument.
-General statements are not useful.
-Yes the gas is not as quiet, but current owners, especially of the quality gas like Newmar don't consider it an issue and I'm told aren't bothering trying to upgrade the sound deadening like the "older" gassers. '
- What is really amazing and unsaid are all these tough built dps with low mileage and high years being sold. So, why weren't they being driven????
-Gas owners like doing their own maintenance and getting service is easier across the country.
-If you want to impress the oldsters, buy a dp, but don't forget to buy a tag axel, and you must be new, and something like an Essex, then you can park and impress.
- If you want an hydronic heating system, then it is a dp for you.
- You can "stress" that gas mh now to 200,000 miles - that is forever as mhs go. The V10 was built for that stress, just maintain it and change your fluids regularly and don't forget the transmission.
- If you go full time you will want the longest coach you can get...that's a dp. If you don't drive it you would be better in a mobile home or a 5th wheel.
- If you want disability access, probably a dp, for the bus like hydraulic entry way.

From another forum:
"I was asked this question hundreds of times as a service manager. If you are going to full time and travel a lot. The diesel is usually a better deal. It rides better because of the heavier weight. The engine and transmission are heavier duty and will last longer. The rear engine is MUCH quieter. If you are going to use it on some weekends and vacation, the gas is a better deal. Maintenance is much, much cheaper on the gas. Some will tell you that a gas will not last long. That is a bunch of crap. We had several commercial customers who put well over 200,000 miles on their coaches."

From another forum:
The owner of a short dp Tiffin Breeze 32, who loves the suspension, is planning on turning it in for a 36 ft gas.
They took it on a 6 month trip.

Just a thought. A 36 ft gas is a very sweet spot for a gas mh.

My personal estimate is that if you buy that 10 year old dp, you will spend at least $20,000 getting it ready for the road. Not just on undone maintenance, appliances that need to be replaced, but also upgrading that old interior. And this assumes you can find one that hasn't been smoked in or had pets inside. It isn't uncommon for that excellent condition coach to have all sorts of problems from undone maintenance that "excellent" somehow and mysteriously didn't cover.

Last question: How much time will you drive and how much time will you actually get out of the mh and enjoy yourself??? And how much time will you spend inside??? Would someone who bought a new dp ever argue it is cost justified and they "needed" it because of it was quiet?

If I buy a 10 year old dp, it will be for the "challenge" of buying used and the "fun" of doing the upgrades to personalize the rig.  And no, I'm not being sarcastic.  And yes, I would like an hydronic heating system. Old age and comfort go together, and I would kill for a "quiet" ride and I really like exhaust breaking, don't care about how fast I climb, and my butt gets tired easily these days, so the softer ride the better. Yes, if I was a young stud, I would buy gas and leave the dps to the old farts. 

And yes, I have the cash for the old dp and the upgrades. Old farts like me generally don't like monthly payments. And we have more time to fix things and kind of like doing so.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 07:46:34 AM by RodgerS »
Gone RVing with Susan
Class B- RV: 2001 Mercedes CLK320 Soft Top

rvgary

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Re: Ford Triton V-10 or Diesel Pusher
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2015, 08:16:38 AM »
Very few Ford dealers will do warranty work on the E450 engine and Chassis.
2015 Itasca Cambria 30j
2013 Jeep Wrangler Sport

 

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