3/4 ton payload question

First off I'm new to this forum and new to shopping for a 5th wheel. We have never owned any type of RV but seemed to settle on a 5th wheel as our best option. I have many questions coming but the tow vehicle is my concern at the moment.

My question is this: I'm looking at a 3/4 ton 4X4 crew cab truck with a single rear axle, 6.7 turbo diesel and it has a max payload of 2,065 lbs (according to the door sticker). I'm having a difficult time finding a 33 to 35 foot 5th wheels that doesn't have at least 1500 to 1800 lbs of pin weight. Add the hitch in the bed, me the wife and dog, maybe some misc items and we blow the payload capacity badly.

We have been told at several RV stores we are fine, a 3/4 ton will tow almost anything in the size you're looking at. I also see them up and down the interstate.... what I'm I missing?

Thx,
Steve

You are not really missing anything, the dealers are and typically do.  In your shopping pay attention to the numbers, they do not lie while dealers often do to sell a product or simply do not know.  Considering the size 5th wheel you are considering, you will be better served looking at 1-ton trucks as they carry a higher payload capacity than a 3/4 ton.  Other alternatives is to look at smaller 5th wheels that carry a lower pin weight, or consider a travel trailer as they carry a tongue weight of 10-12% vs a 20+ % pin weight of 5th wheels.  Probably the best approach is to first select the 5th wheel or TT that fits your needs, wants & desires, then pick the truck capable of towing it.

Gizmo said:

You are not really missing anything, the dealers are and typically do.  In your shopping pay attention to the numbers, they do not lie while dealers often do to sell a product or simply do not know.  Considering the size 5th wheel you are considering, you will be better served looking at 1-ton trucks as they carry a higher payload capacity than a 3/4 ton.  Other alternatives is to look at smaller 5th wheels that carry a lower pin weight, or consider a travel trailer as they carry a tongue weight of 10-12% vs a 20+ % pin weight of 5th wheels.  Probably the best approach is to first select the 5th wheel or TT that fits your needs, wants & desires, then pick the truck capable of towing it.

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gizmo is 100% correct - having said that most 3/4 tons are built the same as a 1 ton minus a spring so some guys throw in air bags or supersprings to level the truck. I paid $300 extra for my 1 ton over a 3/4 ton big deal. Also a lot of guys figure my trailer weights x and loaded it xy but if i'm not carrying water i'm not over my limits. States and Provinces for the most part turn a blind eye to travel trailers UNLESS the ass is dragging on the ground. However, that is changing as more people get into accidents and incidents and sue everyone - here in Canada its becoming a big deal to be within your limits as in BC i have heard of people having to unload or leave trailers, snow mobiles etc at the side of the road after being pulled over. its just as easy to buy the right truck for the job and even a dually typically is only $1200 more than a SRW

Good comments above, so I won't repeat them. The crew cab models often have lower payloads simply because the body weighs.

I think you need to be looking at one ton SRW (Single Rear Wheel) models instead of 3/4 ton. You should find crew cab payloads near or at 3000 lbs.

SRW on Dodge and GM payload is just over 4000lbs Ford is under 4000 on a Dually GM and Dodge are over 7000 lbs

Having said that the new Ford F150 has a payload over 3000 lbs and the all New 2016 Ford F350 will be a beast for sure.

Thanks for the replies!

I would love to see one of the new f150 with a max tow package but none have arrived in our area. The only bad thing about the 3.5 ecoboost you still only have 420 lbs torque vs. over 800 lbs with the 6.7 turbo diesel. And fuel economy would be a major difference.

I currently have a f150 with the 3.5 ecoboost to pull my boat and cargo trailer, it does a great job towing these toys!

Maybe a new f150 with max tow and a 1/2 ton towable 5th wheel?

Steve

The lower torque merely means the engine has to rev high to produce the necessary horsepower, but the small V6 can rev high all day long without worries.

The 3.5 ecoboost reaches max torque at about 1900 rpm. It's a monster little 6 but pulling a fiver of any size maybe a little much. Interesting enough torque is king when towing a load not really hp. Example would be all the 300-350 hp class A motor homes, compare a diesel to a gasser while both are equal in hp ratings.

Going to look at a f350 today.... how exciting my wife said  8)


Steve

Interesting enough torque is king when towing a load not really hp. Example would be all the 300-350 hp class A motor homes, compare a diesel to a gasser while both are equal in hp ratings.

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That's a popular notion but does not hold up to science. Torque and hp are inextricably related - you can't have one without the other.It's the RPMs that make torque usable as horsepower and moving a load.
HP = Torque x RPM ? 5252The diesel advantage is that the peak torque & hp are available at very low RPMs, where it is most usable for acelleration. Gas engines need to run at much higher rpms to generate their full rated hp, so are mostly driven using only a fraction of the potential power.  If a driver was willing to run the gas engine at high enough RPMs to actually produce the rated hp, the performance would be identical for the same hp rating. Of course, the gas engine would also wear out quicker at those rpms.

According to Ford, in the F150 the 3.5L EcoBoost produces 420 lb-ft @ 2500 rpms but does not reach its full 365 hp until 5000 rpms.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/engine/

Interesting, help me learn something here.

The ford 6.7 turbo diesel has a max of 440 hp with 860 lbs of torque. Almost double the torque vs. hp. When compared to the ecoboost the turbo diesel has 20% more hp but achieves about 205% more torque. I do see the lower rpm which makes complete sense.

I will say I had a 2007 Tahoe and when pulling my boat there is a certain hill for me to pull it at 65mph that engine would drop a couple gears and sit on about 4000rpm, my 2012 3.5 ecoboost pulls it dropping one gear and sitting on 2100rpm just about the maximum torque range for that engine. This is why I felt torque was most important. I'm I wrong?

Thank you for your replies and explanation!

Steve

Like Gary mention above. Like I'm running a modified 2002 Dodge Cummins diesel.  I'm roughly 400 HP and 900 foot pounds of torque. My peak torque is at roughly 2,000 RPM where my governor limit is at 3,200 RPM's. But at low as 1,500 RPM I'm still producing a huge amount of torque. With big power comes big responsibility. This is why most all heavy over the road truck are diesel powered. Diesel engines can produce more power and torque and have a better longevity over a gasoline power engine. Like Gary said with even Ford's ecoboost you running quite high in the RPM's taking a good chuck of the longevity out of the engine. Like myself I'm a dual truck owner too. I own a 5.9L gasoline powered and a 5.9L Diesel powered. Hands down the diesel out performs the gasoline engine. Also diesel even though the price is higher at the pump its still cheap to drive over a gasoline engine. I've got a spreadsheet and can plugin MPG and price numbers from my fuel logs. Then it reports back the cost per mile.

Here is my 2002
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/members-rides/17-mopar1973man/25-2002-dodge-ram-2500

Here is my 1996
http://articles.mopar1973man.com/members-rides/17-mopar1973man/26-1996-dodge-ram-1500

Good stuff, thx!

Looked at a crew cab f350 with 6.7 diesel SRW and it still only had 2,400lbs payload 

Off to look at some Ram trucks Monday. I do not want a DRW truck.... we shall see.


Steve

StevL said:

Good stuff, thx!

Looked at a crew cab f350 with 6.7 diesel SRW and it still only had 2,400lbs payload 

Off to look at some Ram trucks Monday. I do not want a DRW truck.... we shall see.


Steve

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You should be looking at Ram 3500 SRW then.  The crew cab 2500's with 4X4 and Cummins have just a tick under 2400 lbs of payload.

With all said about the overloaded 3/4 tons pulling relatively small-mid size 5th wheel, I wonder how many 1 tons are overloaded pulling the larger variety.

5string said:

I wonder how many 1 tons are overloaded pulling the larger variety.

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My guess is a lot! After looking for tow vehicles it's actually complicated to find a SRW in a 3/4 ton and the one ton SRW doesn't offer any drastic payload difference.

I was looking at the Ram trucks today, it seems impossible to get a payload in a SRW 3/4 ton truck with crew cab, 4x4 and achieve just one pound over 3,000. Most are in the 2,000 to 2,500 range.

Steve

2015 chevy 2500hd crewcab payload is 3560
2015 chevy 3500hd crewcab payload is 4324 800 lbs more than 2500 on srw basically its the addition of an extra spring thats it, tow capacity is the same BUT the GVWR sticker is what counts the most lol,
i have a 1ton because my pin is about 2700- 2800 lbs plus hitch and dogs and wife and blah blah blah lol
dually is 5965

payload has only changed by about 100lbs since 2010 when they redid the chassis

cheers

Okay let's get one thing straight, looking at the specs online vs. a door sticker on an actual vehicle things vary greatly.

I looked at a 2500 ram 4x4 today loaded with the Cummings diesel and the cargo capacity was 1,5XX lbs. this wasn't a hundred pounds more than my current f150. What gives?

I'm reading the yellow and white tire & load stickers in the door jams.

Steve

There is a difference between the door sticker, web sites, and scaled weights. Because advertised cargo capacity is typically wrapped around 150 pound driver. My truck got lots more stuff inside. So even my capacity is less that all the above because scaled weights are the real deal.

Steve you also have to remember not all trucks are created equal and people miss that fact - case in point Ford which you drive makes about 5 or 6 versions of an F150 some have HD trailer packages some don't my son in laws GMC 1500 with a 5.3l had a bigger payload than my Chev 1500 with a 6.2 HOWEVER they can both pull the same size load.(and mine is faster lol)
GVWR is calculated at the factory based on multiple factors springs, shocks, axles etc

there is a new F150 - 2015 that will pull 12000lbs and has payload of 3000lbs BUT you have to find the right combo - and you are doing the right thing checking the door sticker ITS THE GOD of that truck

cheers

steveblonde said:

Having said that the new Ford F150 has a payload over 3000 lbs and the all New 2016 Ford F350 will be a beast for sure.

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Hey Steve the 2016 Super Duty will be the same as the 2015.  The 2017 will be aluminum body so the payload will go up more like it did on the F-150.  From what I have heard the 2016 model year could be a short run.  Just wanted to let you know.  This came from someone within Ford who knows a few things.