Internet Satellite

John Canfield said:

I've heard that Starband customer care was? even worse than Hughes if that's possible? :? A Starband customer cornered me somewhere and was asking about my Datastorm - his Starband experience had almost permanently turned him away from a mobile solution.

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John, I've heard similar stories from new HughesNet users -- and even worse "horror" stories about getting assistance from HN tech support. So your random sampling of "one" is fortunately not representative of the quality of Starband. ?For each unhappy user you hear about, I can list 100s who are very happy with the service -- including myself. I will set my system up beside yours or any other HughesNet system and gladly compare results -- and monthly fees.

One major difference is that Starband "does" allow mobile users. I just spoke to a major dealer that attended their current dealer training and testing session -- and that was reinforced to him. If anyone knows of anything to the contrary, I would appreciate postings of your references. So that is my understanding as of today. The problem they have been having (and HughesNet also) are all the fly by night dealers that a springing up marketing dishes with little of no training. Starband does not authorize that kind of sale to mobile users.

Starband discontinued their Mobile Flyer system earlier this year. The reason being that it was just too much trouble to supply the equipment to dealers. The kit included everything down to the wrenches involved -- which was a bad idea in the first place. It was found that dealers themselves could put together the tripod systems for far less cost -- so the flyer did not make that much economic sense anymore. It was "not" because they were discontinuing mobile system support. Dealers around the country are very actively selling and supporting mobile systems.

As a Starband user I received training (as any purchaser of Starband receives), was tested in depth on that training, then received a certificate signifying that I am a Certified Starband Installer. With that in hand, I can set my dish up "anywhere". When I call for assistance, I do not have to be prepared to lie about my current location. My calls have been few, but have always gotten through right away and I received (in well spoken English) all the tech support I needed. Also, and very important, John -- a XPol on a Starband dish is done "after" going on line, not as a requirement before going on line. That way, the user can send emails to users groups or whomever to ask questions if having a pointing problem. If a problem exists, SB will send an email asking that it be corrected.

Anyway, hope this clears up any of the misconceptions you might have had about Starband.

BTW, I "am" a Certified Installer -- not a dealer. I have never sold a dish to anyone else. However, I plan to become an installer for a dealer in the future so will have to be careful about my postings here in terms of advantages of one vs. another. So far I have tried to just clear up the misconceptions posted.

Bob, old friend, I have to disagree with something you said. The mast does not have to be perfectly perpendicular. Regardless if you sweep from the lower right to the upper left, upper left to lower right, or on a perfectly flat plane, there is only ONE small point in space where you will receive the satellite signal. How you get there is immaterial. The only advantage of having it perfectly perpendicular is that you can preset the skew to the exact plus or minus point as called out by your zip code, whereas I may have to play with mine a little more to pass crosspol. That said, I do try to get it kinda close to perpendicular, but that's more for stability of the tripod and so it doesn't look really, really stupid to passers-by. ;D 

Bob Buchanan said:

One major difference is that Starband "does" allow mobile users. I just spoke to a major dealer that attended their current dealer training and testing session -- and that was reinforced to him.

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Bob, I took the SB dealer training a couple of days ago and was very surprised to see the "No RV use" emphasized, both in the training material and in the test. I might have even answered "yes, it's OK' in the test just to see if I had read it incorrectly and received a "Wrong answer!" as a result. Maybe something changed in the last couple of days, or maybe the dealer you talked to took the training before they changed the policy. If the former, I should have waited a few days.

I have no desire to show either SB or HN in a bad light; In fact, one of several reasons I took the training was because I didn't feel qualified to talk factually about SB. I think you'll find that, prior to this topic, I haven't offered any comments on their system or service.

John In Detroit said:

(The biggest advantage is flexibility, or in my words avoiding that tree)

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Better written, "The ONLY advantage . . ." ?

John In Detroit said:

to Bob ?You need to take the laptop to the roof -or- you need a trained partner (which I do not have) who can click on the NEXT button for you (I do not kid here) or you need to climb down from the roof to click on it. ?Taking the laptop topside with you is hte easiest option.

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Nope, John ? -- you don't need a partner "or" a laptop on the roof. I have been setting up Internet satellite dishes longer than anyone on this forum (as far as I know). I have set up on every kind of mount known to installers -- and, I travel alone. I have NEVER had a laptop outside of my rig while setting up my dish. Before the OPI, I used an analog CW meter -- and when my OPI was misplaced, I set up my roof mounted dish and passed XPol with that meter. Rarely was XPol needed after a well done setup, but if it was, I could easily do that with the OPI, then go down the ladder to my desktop -- and hit the return key, and surf the net. There is plenty of time to do that if necessary. So one trip up the ladder is all that is necessary -- with a suitable ratchet wrench in hand.

Taken directly from the Starband website 1 minute ago:

Can I mount a StarBand antenna on my RV?
Not at this time. The StarBand antenna not only receives from but also transmits to the satellite; the installation must be performed with exact precision and in accordance with FCC standards.

Karl,

That wording suggests (hints?) that they may have something in the works. I vaguely recall someone mentioning it while we were at the FMCA rally earlier this year, but I probably wasn't paying enough attention to get it right &/or my memory might be failing me. It sure would be nice if they came out with something that was lower priced than the DataStorm system.

Karl said:

Bob, old friend, I have to disagree with something you said. The mast does not have to be perfectly perpendicular. Regardless if you sweep from the lower right to the upper left, upper left to lower right, or on a perfectly flat plane, there is only ONE small point in space where you will receive the satellite signal. How you get there is immaterial. The only advantage of having it perfectly perpendicular is that you can preset the skew to the exact plus or minus point as called out by your zip code, whereas I may have to play with mine a little more to pass crosspol. That said, I do try to get it kinda close to perpendicular, but that's more for stability of the tripod and so it doesn't look really, really stupid to passers-by. ;D?

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You did mean "old" in terms of length of friendship -- right? ?

Well, we are both correct -- in that all the readings one finds for set up are based upon a totally vertical mast. So if I start there as a base point, I will get results much quicker, including an OK on XPol. The fellow Ron and I took training from years ago was paranoid about that -- however, he hit the bird dead center each time and never had to adjust for XPol. And athat time we were setting up on a 2x4' piece of plywood sitting on the ground with a concrete block to keep it steady and shims to get it farily level.

I guess you recall the day I stopped and stared at your setup -- and commented that your mast was 30 degrees off from the horizon. If nothing else, Karl, it just "looks" weird.

Karl said:

Taken directly from the Starband website 1 minute ago:

Can I mount a StarBand antenna on my RV?
Not at this time. The StarBand antenna not only receives from but also transmits to the satellite; the installation must be performed with exact precision and in accordance with FCC standards.

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I hate it when you post something contrarty to one of my posts, Karl.

My postings on Starband marketing of RV units are based on my feedback from a dealer. That dealer was the 1st and probably still the largest Starband dealer -- not someone handing out dishes, an instruction manual, and wishes of good luck. Others have risen up and are getting bigger all the time. Most all of the larger and more credible Internet dish dealers started working for or with this dealer. He actually designed the specs for the Mobile Flyer. He was also the first to explore mobile satellite with Direcway. I think I can safely say that if it weren't for this dealer, there might not be "any" mobile system in use now -- other than Motosat. After Motosat wiped out the overnight receipts of a grocery chain by hitting the wrong satellite during initial testing, the FCC became a bit leery of RV usage -- and that was the beginning of the problems we all have today. That has been fixed now in that you cannot transmit unless you are on the correct bird (plus "many" other safety factors), but the paranoia by the FCC lingers.

My point is, that this dealer works very closely with, and is thought highly of by Starband. He is currently the beta test site for the Starband auto satellite dish. Starband has gotten very paranoid about mobile dishes lately because of the increasing number of folk that are using them with little or no training -- so have stopped advertising in that direction. Pretty much the same thing Hughes has done - for the same reasons. They both want to sell to RVers, but don't want to make it a nationally advertised policy. If I recall, I saw at least 10 dealers pushing dishes in QZ last January.

Anyway, this dealer is selling mobile systems -- and tells me that it is OK with Starband. You "do" get a Certified Installer certificate after the training and can use that to set up anywhere. Ron R. if you're lurking, our friend from CO is doing the same thing as is our Data Comm expert friend in Yuma. So that's what I know and that is my source -- as of 30 seconds ago, Karl.

Bob,

You did mean "old" in terms of length of friendship -- right?

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Of course! We've solved too many problems of the World together for it to be anything else. ;D ....or was it the Scotch that made us seem so smart?

I guess you recall the day I stopped and stared at your setup -- and commented that your mast was 30 degrees off from the horizon. If nothing else, Karl, it just "looks" weird.

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O.k. Bob, don't say you didn't ask for it: I wasn't ever going to mention your 'demo' to a prospective sat. user when you had the dish pointed 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Didn't know they had launched some birds over the North Pole! Take THAT!

Bob Buchanan said:

Better written, "The ONLY advantage . . ." 

Nope, John  -- you don't need a partner "or" a laptop on the roof. I

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Well, as I said, to switch from Point to Cross pol, someone has to be at the computer.  Though I can think of a lot of ways to do the switch (and in fact could do it from the roof without taking the computer up) but I find that the pre-sets for cross pol are never dead on, might be close, but only once have I passed without adjustment and I was able to improve by adjusting

I was browsing Direct TV's web site and was surprised to see an offer for "High Speed Broadband Internet Service" costing $10/month (for 12 months) when added to one of their programming packages. The small print says that the ISP will be a provider of their choice. At first glance I wondered if they'd worked out a deal with one of the satellite internet providers but, on closer inspection, they say it requires a phone line. Looks like it's DSL service.

Basically there are two systems suitable for Mobile use, Hughesnet and Starband.  There are also two automatic systems that are currently available both excellent systems Motosat and Directstar.  Both of these systems currently use the Hughesnet satellite internet system.  From what I understand the only reason Starband is not currently available with an automatic system is that Starband has not yet developed a way to confirm cross pol settings without contacting their NOC either by telephone or E-Mail. While with Hughesnet cross pol is checked without any telephone or e-mail necessary.  I am sure Starband is working on this. 

I got my Direcway (now Hughesnet) shortly after Bob got his.  In fact with Bob's permission and the installers permission I observed Bob's training session and had a review with Bob when he came to the Campground we were at.  When I went for my system I was already trained.  Both of us started out with the plywood base for the antenna.  I built a tripod up for the antenna then at the same time as Bob went to the rooftop mount.  Since getting the rooftop mount my setup time has improved to less than five minutes. Smoky timed me at QZ last year at a little over two minutes as I recall.  I usually perform the whole setup with only one trip to roof and if I have been to the location before I have the parameters so I don't even need to turn the system on till after I have setup the Antenna.  Oh I have never taken my laptop to the roof for setup.

Both the Hughesnet and Starband systems are good systems which allow us to have our internet connection where ever we go.  As are the Motosat and Directstar systems.  Directstar will acquire the satellite quicker than Motosat.  If we were to get an automatic system it would be the Directstar just because it is faster.

For us Satellite internet is the way to go whether it be an automatic system or a manual setup system.  The automatic systems will cost around $5000 and up while the manual systems tart at around $1500 and up.

Another advantage of Satellite internet is the ability to use Skype VOIP you can make phone calls at no cost.  So even when out of range for a cell phone it is possible to use the Satellite internet to make a phone call if desired.

Thanks for the reminder of the Directstar hardware Ron. IIRC I believe I saw one in a booth at a rally, but didn't recall the price; Sounds like it's similar to MotoSat. Too bad they (or someone else) couldn't figure out how to make it at a lower price point.

For the part timers who store their coach in the side yard, an automatic system could be shared with the house (which is what I believe Ron M does), which might make the cost of the auto system more appealing.

I know some folks with automatic internet antenna do use the system at their stick house as you mentioned.  Some have a second antenna mounted and just move the modem from the rig to the house.  Russ has a motosat and an second antenna mounted at his place in Happy Trails. he just connects the cables from the MH to the second dish when there.  His cover doesn't allow raising the Motosat dish.

Sometimes I wish I could do that here Ron, but our side yard wouldn't accommodate the coach even if our county changed their RV parking ban.

Good point re the second dish, which I suspect can be bought relatively inexpensively on the used market.

Tom, you need a smaller RV, one that won't show over your fence.

LOL Robert. Since the fence is only 4 feet high, that sure would be a small RV. Maybe I need a hi-low.

Is everybody saying Direct TV offers NO INTERNET SERVICE for MH???  (at this time)

Yes. Direct TV sold their satellite internet service (previously known as Direcway) to HughesNet. Read the earlier messages in this topic re the available satellite internet options.

Personally, I have familiarity with HughesNet, but I'm attempting to become more familiar with competing services so I can more adequately answer questions here. I'm attempting to contact HughesNet's competition to clarify my apparent misunderstanding of their dealer training.

A third satellite internet provider is WildBlue. But, because of the nature of their transmission (known as 'spot beam'), their service is unusable for RVs that move more than a couple of hundred miles from the registered address of the service. You can view some comparisons between HughesNet and WildBlue on HN's web site here. HN is really down on WB - scroll down and check out the link to the photos of a WB installation.

Karl said:

Bob, Of course! We've solved too many problems of the World together for it to be anything else. ;D ....or was it the Scotch that made us seem so smart? ?O.k. Bob, don't say you didn't ask for it: I wasn't ever going to mention your 'demo' to a prospective sat. user when you had the dish pointed 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Didn't know they had launched some birds over the North Pole! Take THAT!

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Yep, Karl -- so many problems to solve and so little time.   But we surely have made a dent . . .

The worst part of that story (that you unfortunately bring up :'() is that I had been setting up my TV sat dishes for quite some time -- ergo, the ego trip I was on when showing someone else the benefits. Where ever that fellow and his wife are these days, I'll bet they never bought sat TV, and have told the story of how their neighbor at that Reno park convinced them that setting up would just take too long.