jlazar
Well-known member
What is your opinion of Tiffin DPs vs Entegra? Specifically Phaeton vs Aspire and Allegro Bus vs Anthem.
Tiffin vs Entegra
- Thread starter jlazar
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SargeW
Site Team
Well, I have never owned an Entegra, but I do own a Tiffin Phaeton. So not surprisingly, I would vote for the Phaeton. I like the coach, and the company a lot. Are you looking at new or used?
Most owners I would speculate would vote for the coach that they own. Other than that it would probably be just speculation.
Most owners I would speculate would vote for the coach that they own. Other than that it would probably be just speculation.
jlazar
Well-known member
Sorry, I should have been more specific. We owned a 37 ft Allegro Bay. Really like it but only had two slides. If we go full-time, we want 4 slides and probably a 40 ft (42 max) but not necessarily a bath and a half. Would also probably be looking at all electric to include heated floors. Seems the Entegra's have side radiators, larger Cummins (450) and IFS. All things you get on the Allegro Bus but not the Phaeton. Also, some of the 40ft Aspire models (lower than Anthem) come with a tag axle for extra carrying capacity. I have only had a gasser so don't know if things like side radiator are a big deal. Folks seem to say they are better for easy access to the engine and keeping the radiator clean. Does IFS make the ride on a DP much different? Is the ride on a tag that much better? Looking for all your thoughts and ideas on what I should consider. I am leaning to Tiffen and Entegra but not ruling out something like the Dutch Star. I have thick skin so please give me your thoughts. Also, would be looking for a 2-3 yr old model in the $150K-$225 price range.
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
The Entegra is a more upscale coach and has the superior extras like the side radiator and IFS. That doesn't mean the rear rad, etc., are no good, but it does indicate a lower costs solution. You probably wouldn't notice the IFS vs solid axle much in normal driving, and the side/rear radiator is mostly a maintenance feature. If you DIY, you will love the side rad; if not, you may not care.
I would choose the Entegras if within budget, and would choose the Allegro Bus over the Phaeton if I had the choice. But the Phaeton is a nice coach and could be quite happy with one of them too.
A tag axle is there for weight capacity and you won't find one on a coach that doesn't need it for that reason. While it does have some ride benefits, they are not sufficient to offset the downsides unless the extra weight carrying is required. The down sides are substantial cost, loss of bay and floor space, and two extra tires.
I would choose the Entegras if within budget, and would choose the Allegro Bus over the Phaeton if I had the choice. But the Phaeton is a nice coach and could be quite happy with one of them too.
A tag axle is there for weight capacity and you won't find one on a coach that doesn't need it for that reason. While it does have some ride benefits, they are not sufficient to offset the downsides unless the extra weight carrying is required. The down sides are substantial cost, loss of bay and floor space, and two extra tires.
Gary, thanks for your insight on tag axles. A bit more clarity than some have offered.
I had noticed that a lot of used tax axle coaches were in the 43+ foot range. Some owners have mentioned their disappointment and surprise with the loss of bay and floor space.
I'm curious if you could also offer your insight on hydronic systems:
1) why they are often not found on shorter coaches, though I did see one on a 35 ft Newmar Ventana.
2) are aftermarket hydronic systems popular as limited function add ons? I understand they can be quite costly,
but there are apparently some less costly diy options out there unless you want a more complex multi functionality installation.
I had noticed that a lot of used tax axle coaches were in the 43+ foot range. Some owners have mentioned their disappointment and surprise with the loss of bay and floor space.
I'm curious if you could also offer your insight on hydronic systems:
1) why they are often not found on shorter coaches, though I did see one on a 35 ft Newmar Ventana.
2) are aftermarket hydronic systems popular as limited function add ons? I understand they can be quite costly,
but there are apparently some less costly diy options out there unless you want a more complex multi functionality installation.
jlazar
Well-known member
I would be looking to buy a 2-3 yr old, 40-42 ft model in the $150K-$225 price range. Initially I would not be DIY as I would have a big learning curve on the diesel and more complex battery system and all electric setup. But eventually, I could see myself doing oil changes, filters, batteries, plumbing and all indoor maintenance. And I always have you folks to lean on right? 
Given what Gary has said above, I believe anything in the 42 foot range would be a tag regardless of being Entegra or Tiffin. So if floorplan, all electric, and heated floor requirements are all met in a 40 foot, but one 40 ft had a tag and the other didn't, which would you go with? Seems the tag gives more carrying capacity but loss of bay. Why would they even put a tag on a 40 if not needed? The tag models also seem to have larger engines (450 vs 380). But in reading other topics, it seems I should focus on torque not HP.
The more I look at it, the answer seems to be what you folks keep saying. Floorplan first, then best additional features to stay within budget. Don't get hung up on brand. Hopefully after 2-3 years, most issues have been resolved regardless of brand.
But if floorplan, features and price were pretty equal, I would tend to lean towards Tiffen, Entegra and Newmar. Are those in line with what you folks would do?
One last comment. I should mention that we would plan on full timing for 7-10 years. I would be looking to buy the DP that would last us that entire time. Not saying I wouldn't make a change. But my plans would be to keep the same coach the entire time.
Given what Gary has said above, I believe anything in the 42 foot range would be a tag regardless of being Entegra or Tiffin. So if floorplan, all electric, and heated floor requirements are all met in a 40 foot, but one 40 ft had a tag and the other didn't, which would you go with? Seems the tag gives more carrying capacity but loss of bay. Why would they even put a tag on a 40 if not needed? The tag models also seem to have larger engines (450 vs 380). But in reading other topics, it seems I should focus on torque not HP.
The more I look at it, the answer seems to be what you folks keep saying. Floorplan first, then best additional features to stay within budget. Don't get hung up on brand. Hopefully after 2-3 years, most issues have been resolved regardless of brand.
But if floorplan, features and price were pretty equal, I would tend to lean towards Tiffen, Entegra and Newmar. Are those in line with what you folks would do?
One last comment. I should mention that we would plan on full timing for 7-10 years. I would be looking to buy the DP that would last us that entire time. Not saying I wouldn't make a change. But my plans would be to keep the same coach the entire time.
I think your purpose is your primary driver. I also think you will actually have to spend some time in the driver's seat and in the rv to resolve your concerns, regardless of any and all research you do. Also some of this can not be argued one way or another with enough certainty to bypass personal responses and personal needs, since often those offering great arguments to some extent are also justifying their decisions.
I also believe that sometime within a year or two of owning a coach you will discover how close or how far away you were from the appropriate coach. I could tell you what I would buy, but it would serve no purpose, especially since my wife may or may not want a vote...unclear on that AND what I do with an RV may have little to nothing similar to what you will do with it.
Myself, I have been working on this for almost a year and a half. I have probably mentally decided on, then undecided, on at least 7 or 8 coaches, new and used, short and long, gas and diesel. Unfortunately and fortunately, I was not in a position to plunge forth and I have other travel options for extended overseas trips in the hopper.
Actually, I have been accused of being a perfectionist, some have pushed me, some would buy it for me if I would give them the money...and get er done, and some just seem to have their knickers in a twist...quite the comedy zoo at times.
I am pretty sure that at least half of the rvs I might have purchased would have been equally good in the sense that none of them would be the same and none would be perfect. Ones age, time available, diy desires, and travel plans are really critical.
One can sum it up as floor plan and if used, also well maintained. For myself, that is critical, but just not enough to go on when the time comes to make the decision and buy one of several "dreams" I have in mind, not all of which are rvs and mileage.
I also believe that sometime within a year or two of owning a coach you will discover how close or how far away you were from the appropriate coach. I could tell you what I would buy, but it would serve no purpose, especially since my wife may or may not want a vote...unclear on that AND what I do with an RV may have little to nothing similar to what you will do with it.
Myself, I have been working on this for almost a year and a half. I have probably mentally decided on, then undecided, on at least 7 or 8 coaches, new and used, short and long, gas and diesel. Unfortunately and fortunately, I was not in a position to plunge forth and I have other travel options for extended overseas trips in the hopper.
Actually, I have been accused of being a perfectionist, some have pushed me, some would buy it for me if I would give them the money...and get er done, and some just seem to have their knickers in a twist...quite the comedy zoo at times.
I am pretty sure that at least half of the rvs I might have purchased would have been equally good in the sense that none of them would be the same and none would be perfect. Ones age, time available, diy desires, and travel plans are really critical.
One can sum it up as floor plan and if used, also well maintained. For myself, that is critical, but just not enough to go on when the time comes to make the decision and buy one of several "dreams" I have in mind, not all of which are rvs and mileage.
One really difficult thought, difficult at first to get ones mind around, is that there are high end, even luxury coaches out there: 1) in the range of 10 to 15 years of age, 2) of excellent quality, 3) well cared for, and 4) at a price that boggles ones mind...and RELIABLE.
Except for those in fear of buying used or those in the need to buy new to secure their social status and reputation for being elite, seem like buried treasure for the savvy and capable.
There is a worthy argument that you buy one of the old rides, travel in it for a year or two, then likely sell it for about what you paid for it, assuming you kept it well maintained, AND then buy your final ride......................................depreciation then is irrelevant because you will ride the new one the rest of the way......... Or maybe you don't care anymore and enjoy riding the old rig around, spending the rest of the dollars on the operational aspects and personalizing the beastie.
Except for those in fear of buying used or those in the need to buy new to secure their social status and reputation for being elite, seem like buried treasure for the savvy and capable.
There is a worthy argument that you buy one of the old rides, travel in it for a year or two, then likely sell it for about what you paid for it, assuming you kept it well maintained, AND then buy your final ride......................................depreciation then is irrelevant because you will ride the new one the rest of the way......... Or maybe you don't care anymore and enjoy riding the old rig around, spending the rest of the dollars on the operational aspects and personalizing the beastie.
Kevin Means
Site Team
We're not full-timers, nor do we plan to be but a lot of full-timers say storage space is an important consideration. Don't automatically assume that you're going to have to give up some basement storage if you purchase a coach with a tag axle. Tag axles have been put on coaches from 32 to 45 feet in length - probably even shorter. On shorter coaches, you do sacrifice basement storage if you have a tag - when compared to the same length coach without a tag - but no one builds coaches over 40 feet in length without a tag axle so it becomes an apples-to-oranges comparison.
The purpose of a tag axle is to enable the coach to carry more weight. They're more expensive to buy and maintain for sure but they also make the coach more stable in strong winds, or when passing semi trucks. The ride quality is noticeably better with a tag. At least that's been my experience.
Kev
The purpose of a tag axle is to enable the coach to carry more weight. They're more expensive to buy and maintain for sure but they also make the coach more stable in strong winds, or when passing semi trucks. The ride quality is noticeably better with a tag. At least that's been my experience.
Kev
Gary RV_Wizard
Site Team
.
Back in the mid-90's when gas chassis capabilities were lagging behind motorhome size/weight, tags were added to help with the load. Ditto for diesels larger than what the max rear axle limits could handle (was 20,000 lbs but recently upped to 23,000 on most highways). A 43 footer needs a tag just for the weight, but it also has about the same bay space as a non-tag 40 footer. Maybe important, maybe not. Your call.
It's primarily a cost issue. Hydronic systems are substantially more expensive, but they do provide superior heating and hot water capability. I don't think a retrofit is practical. You can fit a diesel burner in place of an LP furnace, but you won't get the benefits of the multi-zone, multi-outlet heat circulation system, engine heat reclamation, etc. that a factory hydronic system provides. You need to tear up the entire coach to do all that, even if you have the money for it. Major job for modest gain, in my opinion. Higher end coaches often have two speed Lp furnaces and 10 or 16 gallon water heaters that do a very credible job, plus owners tend to use heat pumps or auxiliary electric for much of the heating needs anyway. I'm not knocking hydronic - it's a great way to go. Just not worth the retrofit cost & effort.
Gary, that has been my sense of it on the hydronic heating, so I appreciate your confirming insights on it. My guess is that it is more useful to full-timers as a practical matter of that living situation. Both tag axles and hydronic heating haven't made it onto my list of desirables, mostly because I don't plan to sell my paid for house and become a full-timer.
The three items that are floating a bit until I get more seat time are the Newmar comfort drive, hp/torque, and situational weight/length flexibility. Those will sort themselves out in due course, as a personal judgment items, as my wife and I spend some time in the seat of rentals in a variety of situations.
My sweet spot, compared to jlazar, is more in the used dp 75k to 125k range. Personally, since I'm buying for cash, I want to spend it more on the operating and daily costs, than on the rv itself. The 2008 Newmar Kountry Star and 2014 Tiffin Breeze and 2000+ Newmar Mountain Aires are falling nicely into my price range while I first plan some overseas extended trips, meantime.
The three items that are floating a bit until I get more seat time are the Newmar comfort drive, hp/torque, and situational weight/length flexibility. Those will sort themselves out in due course, as a personal judgment items, as my wife and I spend some time in the seat of rentals in a variety of situations.
My sweet spot, compared to jlazar, is more in the used dp 75k to 125k range. Personally, since I'm buying for cash, I want to spend it more on the operating and daily costs, than on the rv itself. The 2008 Newmar Kountry Star and 2014 Tiffin Breeze and 2000+ Newmar Mountain Aires are falling nicely into my price range while I first plan some overseas extended trips, meantime.
Larry N.
Well-known member
I'd certainly disagree with that, although I can see how one who's not used both for a while could come to that conclusion. We're far from full timing, and we've had both ways, but I'd prefer not to have to go back to propane furnace and propane water heater. The Aqua Hot is really nice, quieter than propane heat, pretty much unlimited hot water (within the limits of tanks if no hookups), added engine block heater when needed, hot water enroute and when getting to camp, just from engine heat. And the heat distribution seems to be better, with multiple heat exchangers through the coach. Of course you have furnace heat enroute in cold weather, yet no need to use propane -- it's just there, from engine heat.
On the other side, there is a bit of periodic maintenance, and it takes special care when winterizing, mostly because leaving water in there could be very expensive.
So purchase cost and maintenance are the two main drawbacks (oh yes, it takes a bit of extra space, reducing storage a little), but on used coaches there's not a lot of extra purchase cost, either.
B
bucks2
Guest
You'll be very unhappy if you buy a 40' rig and find you can't carry the items you want when you travel. At the 40' range the weight of the rig lowers the CCC to an area where many full timers are overloading their rigs. Tag axles typically are rated to give you another 10,000 pounds of capacity. Tag axles add stability to the rig when driving. 43' tag axle rigs often have a shorter effective wheelbase for turning than a 40' model without a tag. Tag axles give you two extra tires and brakes for stopping.
Tag axles require you to buy 2 extra tires every 7 years or so. They require maintenance on the bearings and brakes every so often, depending on your mileage. Tag axles on 40' rig takes away basement storage, on a 43' it's a wash, and you get 3 more feet of living area inside. (3'x8'x7'=168 more cubic feet inside)
Side radiators allow easier access for do it yourself maintenance and repairs. They also allow easier (read cheaper/faster) maintenance and repairs for you mechanic. If your mechanic has to change the serpentine belt while laying on his belly under your bed and have his buddy thread the belt on the pulleys down below, that's more expensive than if he can walk up to the back of the rig and do everything from a standing position. Not to even mention the road debris etc. that get caught up in a rear radiator model.
Do your research (as you're doing with this question) and buy ONE rig with all the things you want/need/desire. Don't scrimp now and wish for years that you'd spent another $5,000 to get what you really wanted. Think of the sales tax, registration fees, commissions, mark-ups, service fees, learning curve, etc that you avoid by not changing rigs every two years.
Ken
Tag axles require you to buy 2 extra tires every 7 years or so. They require maintenance on the bearings and brakes every so often, depending on your mileage. Tag axles on 40' rig takes away basement storage, on a 43' it's a wash, and you get 3 more feet of living area inside. (3'x8'x7'=168 more cubic feet inside)
Side radiators allow easier access for do it yourself maintenance and repairs. They also allow easier (read cheaper/faster) maintenance and repairs for you mechanic. If your mechanic has to change the serpentine belt while laying on his belly under your bed and have his buddy thread the belt on the pulleys down below, that's more expensive than if he can walk up to the back of the rig and do everything from a standing position. Not to even mention the road debris etc. that get caught up in a rear radiator model.
Do your research (as you're doing with this question) and buy ONE rig with all the things you want/need/desire. Don't scrimp now and wish for years that you'd spent another $5,000 to get what you really wanted. Think of the sales tax, registration fees, commissions, mark-ups, service fees, learning curve, etc that you avoid by not changing rigs every two years.
Ken
8Muddypaws
Well-known member
I would choose a Tiffin over an Entegra in a heartbeat. Better support network and more livable floorplans. That and the Entegra folks were quite rude when we looked at them. Rude enough that we walked away while the sales manager was still talking. (That dealership closed a couple of months later so there is indeed some justice in the world.)
We fell in love with the Phaeton 40QBH at an RV show and would have bought it that day but they would not give us the price, only saying they would get us a low low low(!) monthly payment. They called a few days later and gave me the price but by that time the shine had worn off and we decided to keep our plain but functional Bounder for another year or two.
I wouldn't mind having a side radiator, but it's not worth an extra hundred grand to me.
We fell in love with the Phaeton 40QBH at an RV show and would have bought it that day but they would not give us the price, only saying they would get us a low low low(!) monthly payment. They called a few days later and gave me the price but by that time the shine had worn off and we decided to keep our plain but functional Bounder for another year or two.
I wouldn't mind having a side radiator, but it's not worth an extra hundred grand to me.
Good replies.
Easier said than done getting it "right" the first time as needs change over time, and so does the rv technology. The comfort drive was introduced in the 07 Mountain Air and then in 08 for the rest of the Newmar dp line. If you owned a dp before that, then you can't have gotten it right if you want the comfort drive now.
Easier to get hydronic heat as the year spread of availability is wider, as is the tag axles.
Not sure 5k is a good number...seems to me the number can be a lot more than that depending on what you are focused on...a good example being the comfort drive because you have to stay with 2007 plus depending on the model, when a good Mountain Aire can be had much older than 2007 and at a much lower cost.
Larry's points on the hydronic heat sound persuasive and that is easier to find on the older models if you know to look for it.
Most of the Newmar models I'm looking at have the side radiator, but that doesn't seem to be the factor by itself driving the price, but I could be wrong. 100K provides more than a side radiator.
As far as storage and overloading, that seems more of a personal judgment issue...some people understand and respect weight limits and some don't.
I find it hard to believe that traveling and full time are the same, but can be at times. I think full timers simply have to have more storage and length issues across the board. And there are always exceptions.
I'm gonna just say I don't believe I'm smart enough to buy only one and be done, simply because that seems to happen to very few owners as I read these forums...if they actively use their rig and....there are some very smart owners herein.
Easier said than done getting it "right" the first time as needs change over time, and so does the rv technology. The comfort drive was introduced in the 07 Mountain Air and then in 08 for the rest of the Newmar dp line. If you owned a dp before that, then you can't have gotten it right if you want the comfort drive now.
Easier to get hydronic heat as the year spread of availability is wider, as is the tag axles.
Not sure 5k is a good number...seems to me the number can be a lot more than that depending on what you are focused on...a good example being the comfort drive because you have to stay with 2007 plus depending on the model, when a good Mountain Aire can be had much older than 2007 and at a much lower cost.
Larry's points on the hydronic heat sound persuasive and that is easier to find on the older models if you know to look for it.
Most of the Newmar models I'm looking at have the side radiator, but that doesn't seem to be the factor by itself driving the price, but I could be wrong. 100K provides more than a side radiator.
As far as storage and overloading, that seems more of a personal judgment issue...some people understand and respect weight limits and some don't.
I find it hard to believe that traveling and full time are the same, but can be at times. I think full timers simply have to have more storage and length issues across the board. And there are always exceptions.
I'm gonna just say I don't believe I'm smart enough to buy only one and be done, simply because that seems to happen to very few owners as I read these forums...if they actively use their rig and....there are some very smart owners herein.
SargeW
Site Team
And I would agree with you. I have had a 32' a 35' and now a 37' Tiffin and we are pretty happy with the size and amenities. As you RV your needs and wants evolve. Our style of RVING has changed a lot since we started 18 years ago. For now we are pretty dialed in. I expect you may take a similar journey.
B
bucks2
Guest
I'm amazed that anyone would aim low and plan to spend more money than they need to, changing rigs later on. But that is a prevalent thought pattern. Do people make mistakes and have to re-buy to correct them? Yes. Do people change what they think they want? Sure. But why would you not buy what you think you want the first time? Why would you plan to fail?
"I'm gonna just say I don't believe I'm smart enough to buy only one and be done,"
Ken
"I'm gonna just say I don't believe I'm smart enough to buy only one and be done,"
Ken
ArdraF
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2006
- Posts
- 10,695
After having an Aqua Hot system it would really be hard to go back to a propane heating system! It's quieter and provides significantly more even heat distribution. Also, in our case it takes less space and provides more storage. If we were to revert to propane it would have to be under the refrigerator and I actually would lose two large drawers where I store pots and pans.
By having a tag axle on our 40' DP (in reality 41' but they call it a 40) we have 10,000 lbs. of CCC. Yes, we might have another underbay without the tag but we have so much interior storage that it doesn't matter. We're not full-timing but are long-timers who sometimes are out for 5-6 months which usually includes multiple climates so a variety of clothing is needed. I could live comfortably in our coach if we were so inclined. I guess my point is not to put too much emphasis on some of these things. It's more important to find a floor plan and amenities that work for you.
ArdraF
By having a tag axle on our 40' DP (in reality 41' but they call it a 40) we have 10,000 lbs. of CCC. Yes, we might have another underbay without the tag but we have so much interior storage that it doesn't matter. We're not full-timing but are long-timers who sometimes are out for 5-6 months which usually includes multiple climates so a variety of clothing is needed. I could live comfortably in our coach if we were so inclined. I guess my point is not to put too much emphasis on some of these things. It's more important to find a floor plan and amenities that work for you.
ArdraF
"I'm amazed that anyone would aim low and plan to spend more money than they need to, changing rigs later on. But that is a prevalent thought pattern. Do people make mistakes and have to re-buy to correct them? Yes. Do people change what they think they want? Sure. But why would you not buy what you think you want the first time? Why would you plan to fail?"
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I don't know what aim low means, but apparently that means not buying what one wants.
I'm also not sure what you mean by spending more money than they need to, changing rigs later on...but apparently that means planning to fail.
This is the first time I have heard of this "prevalent thought pattern.'"
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My take on it is somewhat different, but you may also have trouble understanding my point of view as well.
After about a year and a half of research and discussions, I have learned a lot and that included getting my RV service technician and Inspector qualifications, but new issues and thoughts still seems to squeeze out at times, or need revisit. Just like the discussion regarding hydronic heat and tag axles.
I don't think I can activate my buying process until after 1) I take a couple of extended overseas vacations like spending 3 months or so in Thailand, then the same in Panama, Nicaragua, Spain, etc. I need to see how that goes 2) I know without a doubt that my wife and I need to rent about six different rvs for three days to a week at a time, so we both can see how we like doing this together. I have owned and traveled in an RV in the past, but my wife has not and she was born in China. 3) I was recently introduced to the Great Conversation based on a 10 year reading plan of the Great Books which is making me think different about my desired floor plan focusing on the more modern tv orientations as I'm beginning to watch less tv and read more.
I'm trying to say that what one wants and needs evolves as your knowledge and experiences evolve, (as you understand). I think people mostly aim for what they think they want and sometimes discover the realities later. I also think people pay what they can afford and sometimes too quickly learn they bought to quickly and don't like what they bought. I don't think they plan to fail, but get caught up wanting to realize the dream quickly, not realizing that the marketing hype is not concerned with helping them realize their dream but mostly the sellers dream, but even if the seller is trying to help, they often know to little about the buyers actual needs to really help the buyer and then they also try to fit what they know into what they have on the lot.
One sales manager that I think is really nice and honest, after realizing he didn't have a used dp I would be interested in, attempted to sell me a new gas rv within my price range. When I pointed out that it had a 22,000 axle and I wanted a 24/26,000 axle if I bought that, he was dead on arrival with nothing more to say. How many buyers know the difference and have any concerns about that...I don't know and I can't say that on that day I might not have closed a deal even with my desire to work through things more that I have outlined above...I just knew that the axle limits were unreasonable from my point of view because of the research I have done to date.
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I don't know what aim low means, but apparently that means not buying what one wants.
I'm also not sure what you mean by spending more money than they need to, changing rigs later on...but apparently that means planning to fail.
This is the first time I have heard of this "prevalent thought pattern.'"
==========
My take on it is somewhat different, but you may also have trouble understanding my point of view as well.
After about a year and a half of research and discussions, I have learned a lot and that included getting my RV service technician and Inspector qualifications, but new issues and thoughts still seems to squeeze out at times, or need revisit. Just like the discussion regarding hydronic heat and tag axles.
I don't think I can activate my buying process until after 1) I take a couple of extended overseas vacations like spending 3 months or so in Thailand, then the same in Panama, Nicaragua, Spain, etc. I need to see how that goes 2) I know without a doubt that my wife and I need to rent about six different rvs for three days to a week at a time, so we both can see how we like doing this together. I have owned and traveled in an RV in the past, but my wife has not and she was born in China. 3) I was recently introduced to the Great Conversation based on a 10 year reading plan of the Great Books which is making me think different about my desired floor plan focusing on the more modern tv orientations as I'm beginning to watch less tv and read more.
I'm trying to say that what one wants and needs evolves as your knowledge and experiences evolve, (as you understand). I think people mostly aim for what they think they want and sometimes discover the realities later. I also think people pay what they can afford and sometimes too quickly learn they bought to quickly and don't like what they bought. I don't think they plan to fail, but get caught up wanting to realize the dream quickly, not realizing that the marketing hype is not concerned with helping them realize their dream but mostly the sellers dream, but even if the seller is trying to help, they often know to little about the buyers actual needs to really help the buyer and then they also try to fit what they know into what they have on the lot.
One sales manager that I think is really nice and honest, after realizing he didn't have a used dp I would be interested in, attempted to sell me a new gas rv within my price range. When I pointed out that it had a 22,000 axle and I wanted a 24/26,000 axle if I bought that, he was dead on arrival with nothing more to say. How many buyers know the difference and have any concerns about that...I don't know and I can't say that on that day I might not have closed a deal even with my desire to work through things more that I have outlined above...I just knew that the axle limits were unreasonable from my point of view because of the research I have done to date.
