Tomtom GO 910

Ned said:

You mean Ron can't talk and navigate at the same time?

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I don't know I guess I wasn't making sure Jeff turned right instead of left.  He has learned not to leave home without his GPS.  When we went to breakast today he made sure he had the GPS.  Why maybe even a Garmiin and their rinky dink city nave is better than notheing. ;D ;D ???

Bob:

My experience is similar to Gary?s.  When I bought my 2620, I had been using De Lorme on my laptop.  I find the laptop cumbersome, and it is much more efficient to have the smaller GPS sitting on my dash. Like, Bernie, I use my laptop for pre trip planning.  Pre trip planning eliminates most of the trouble that the 2620 can get me into.

However, I can get myself into trouble by making a wrong turn due to my own stupidity.  Most of the time the Garmin 2620 (basically a 2610 with preloaded mapping on a large hard drive) gets me back on the right road efficiently.  But once in a while I get some kind of a burp from the Garmin and it sends me off in strange directions.

Like you, I was very thrilled the first 3 or 4 thousand miles I used it.  But over time, it began to wear me down.  I find it excellent in most parts of the country, but there seem to be ?holes? where the mapping is not good.  One such hole is some of the western areas of Phoenix.  Phoenix has rapid road construction going on and it is easy for mapping to fall behind.  That is understandable.  But the Garmin does not seem to be the best at rerouting in certain situations.

Other holes seem to pop up at the most inopportune times when we are traveling.

Not positive if ANY GPS can deal with this, but after all Garmins on my boat, and two Garmins used in RVing, I am ready to try something different.  I am attracted to Tom Tom because someone said they offer free updates.  I am trying to get Bruce to elaborate on his ?You get what you pay for? comment.  Did he mean that he has discovered the Tom Tom does not have good mapping?  I think that is all I need to verify before making a decision.

Smoky said:

I am attracted to Tom Tom because someone said they offer free updates.  I am trying to get Bruce to elaborate on his ?You get what you pay for? comment.  Did he mean that he has discovered the Tom Tom does not have good mapping?  I think that is all I need to verify before making a decision.

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Thanks for the more in-depth evaluation of your Garmin. Yes, it is my new toy and compared to prior mapping ways, it is a tremendous help to me. And I may tire in time. OTOH, I doubt that I will -- perhaps because for 45 years, I have been a programmer in some capacity or another. As such, I understand the chore of keeping a product updated to the satisfaction of users of SW -- and am probably much more understanding of other SW developers and their approach to that chore.

I have the latest version (V8) for the 2610 (or for other models as well). That appears to include not only new streets and POIs, but updates to the SW that manipulates that data. I did not want a 2620 w/a hard drive. All of the maps will easily fit on a $10-$20 CF card now so an electro mechanical hard drive device does not make sense anymore compared to solid state storage. I have also downloaded the free update to the firmware inside the 2610. V8 was released in April. That means that they have had to get that ready by then which included alpha and beta tests of all that new SW, FW, and Data prior to the release. So that probably makes my data and SW about a year old. And that makes yours probably several years at least. If someone still has V6, you can imagine how far back that goes and the relevancy of the data and SW. (BTW, some define data as part of the SW, whereas I treat them separately).

The cost to a vendor to update their SW and Data has to be amortized via the sale of new units. In addition to adding new streets data, the SW has to become more and more intuitive and therefore, more complex. Step on, step two SW is easy to write -- whereas, knowing how every driver of an RV going cross country thinks about routing decisions is much tougher. I charge for updates to my SW periodically, and would not be able to stay in business otherwise. If TomTom is giving free updates, that means they are either not very good, or they have a tremendous sales volume to offset that cost. I imagine it's the later coupled with a lower profit margin than Garmin has been able to enjoy, so far.

Now that so many others are successfully getting into the act, Garmin will continue to lower their price on updates -- that's the way the market works. One can buy the iPod that I paid $299 for $50 less now. I also feel that if someone has V6 (probably at least 4 years behind the curve), they need to pony up $75 for an update and/or not complain about getting lost in a subdivision that was built 2 years ago -- or spend $5-$900. for another GPS and only get lost in subdivisons built less than a year or so ago.

Anyway, as mentioned, I plan to use my 2610 for the next year or so, continue to test it's usefulness -- and then decide what to do next. They may continue updating the data -- especially if they feel that will generate more income that trying to get me to buy a new unit. I will not buy a "new" unit, ever. The factory refurbished one I have cost about a third of the original price -- and in a couple of years, am sure the newer units will have come down that much as well.  Of course, all the junk (to me) I don't need is now being added - so hopefully, vanilla models will continue to available. Why would I want to spend money on a TomTom storage unit designed to be an MP3 player that I would never use -- for example?

This technology is incredibly awesome to me, Smoky. As I watch the addresses of the street I'm on, the name of the street coming up next or the exact wording on the next freeway exit sign, plus my speed and elevation -- and watch that little arrow move down the highway in my exact location, I am sure I can live with the reality that it will "always" be a bit behind and occasionally try to route me to Utah. Life to me is a matter of well thought out trade-offs.

Anyway, am looking forward to comparing notes and flaws in like units a QZ. Jeff has suggested this and I think it is a great idea . . .

Smoky said:

Bob:
I am attracted to Tom Tom because someone said they offer free updates. 

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Smoky,

What I believe I said is I have been told that there will be free updates on the 910 and 510. I also think there is a small charge for shipping. I have not seen this in writing but I'm sure contacting TomTom will get the answer. Since starting this thread Bruce has provided some good sites to visit and I have seen that the display on the TomTom leaves a lot to be desired. I have a hard enough time seeing the SPIII and it's bright.

Another adventure with Garmin.  A couple days ago Jeff & I were looking for a Lowes Store.  Jeff used his Garmin and we started down the road following Garmins lead.  Well where Garmin said the Lowes was located was more like a swamp and we continued on till we found a Home Depot.  Jeff if we had continued on up I-45 about 6 miles further we would have seen the Lowes which has been there for at least four years.  When we shop for another GPS Garmin will not even be considered unless they at least meet the accuracy they had when they offered routable Metroguide.

Ron said:

Another adventure with Garmin.  A couple days ago Jeff & I were looking for a Lowes Store.  Jeff used his Garmin and we started down the road following Garmins lead.  Well where Garmin said the Lowes was located was more like a swamp and we continued on till we found a Home Depot.  Jeff if we had continued on up I-45 about 6 miles further we would have seen the Lowes which has been there for at least four years.   When we shop for another GPS Garmin will not even be considered unless they at least meet the accuracy they had when they offered routable Metroguide.

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Ron, I had a similar thing happen with the local Sam's Club in Roseville, CA. Obviously, it was built after my version of Garmin's V8 was released. The street in front of the Walmart/Sam's complex is also not on my version of the maps. If I try to find it by placing the coordinates in (which I marked once in the Sam's parking lot), it still has a problem because the street is not there to properly route to the coordinates. The overpass leading to the complex is also new. Prior to the new overpass, there was a road leading up to the freeway that is not longer there. My 2610 took me to that non-existent street (now) on several occasions in that area.

However, I don't find this a problem - considering that there are "only" millions of POI's in the system -- out of a ka-zillion that actually exist. For example, look here at the number of existing Lowe's in the US. Can you imagine getting all those in the current version of maps -- and getting them all exactly correct. The data entry and checking of this info must be a horrendous task. I will be looking more at the percentage of correct stuff that is there vs. condemning the product because it is not perfect all the time -- and realistically don't expect to rely on the POI aspect very much anyway.

OTOH -- I may find that the percentage is too high and will look elsewhere down the line. The number of very experienced RVers that I chatted with prior to purchase that the 2610 has me pretty convinced that will not happen.

Am curious as to the map versions in Jeff's GPS and the version of firmware SW he has loaded. Also, where exactly is the Lowe's in question? Do you have an address and corresponding correct coordinates. I would like to see what my unit has on that location -- and if it tries to route me to the correct coordinates. And finally, if someone has a TomTom or other vendor GPS, it would be nice to see their results as well -- and corresponding version of their SW. And Ron, what version of maps and SW do have in your GPS?

V8 plus the latest firmware includes 6 million miles of roads, 46 new cities and updates of existing city areas, and over 6 million POI's. To me, a proper evaluatioin of a 2610/20 "must" include that update. And as mentioined in my previous post, V8 itself was out of date upon release -- which is the reality of this technology, regardless of the brand name.

I Have experienced many errors with City Nav on the garmin.  The case I mentioned was not a matter of a new development since the Lowes has been in the present location for more than 4 years and where Garmin indicated there was a Lowes the area has never been developed yet.

For the those that were using the SPIII before the mickey mouse City Nav software was released and had experience with Metroguide maybe our expectations are too high.  Never had as many errors when using Metroguide.  Fact is in areas that have not changed since my copy of metroguide was released it is still more accurate than City Nav from my experience.

I can understand some errors but when you are paying a premium price for updates I do not think it is too much to expect most of the errors that were there since the first or second release to be corrected by several revisions later.  When I first got my SPIII I was very impressed but then Metroguide was the software.  Since Garmin elected to go with City Nav I have also been impressed but not favorably.

Better than nothing but when I replace the 2610 it will most likely be with another brand unless Garmin gets City Nav act together and start providing a Quality routing software.  Just my opinions based on my personal experience.

Bob:

I just uploaded V8 last week and updated the firmware. The Lowe's was a couple of miles north of the location it showed and the area was a swamp that had never been developed. Garmin seems to have a problem with getting the right block, many times the proper location is down the street a block or so but usually not this far.

Have you had any problems since upgrading? This morning I was on the north side of San Antonio and the route I had saved took me through San Aantonio on I-10. I drove thirty miles  on TX 46 to Boerne. While the Garmin showed me on 46 it did not recompute the route until I was about a half mile from I-10 (The route it was displaying).

This was a first in the year and a half I have owned the 2720.

It would seem to me that a notebook computer (which most people have for email) and Microsoft Streets & Trips has the most going for it. Price is reasonable and it's extremely easy to use. I bought a small (1 1/4" square by 1/4" thick) USB GPS antenna on EBay for $50 that has a suction cup mount and it works like a charm. 

BC Excursion said:

It would seem to me that a notebook computer (which most people have for email) and Microsoft Streets & Trips has the most going for it. Price is reasonable and it's extremely easy to use. I bought a small (1 1/4" square by 1/4" thick) USB GPS antenna on EBay for $50 that has a suction cup mount and it works like a charm. 

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Glad that works for you, BC. After messing around with several laptop computers in both my Jeep and my RV -- I just gave up and began looking to a GPS such as the 26XX or 27XX series. The biggest problem I had was that while driving during the day, which is most of my RV travel, I just could not see the screen. It was useless to try. Then became the problem of where to put it. It would not, or course, fit on the dash -- and on the passenger set required a 90 degree head turn to see it -- when it was dark otherwise.  And finally, the need to do keyboard keypresses while also looking down the highway, I found dangerous and tedious.

Some have purchased stands that bolt to the floor to hold a laptop -- whereas other have room on the dash or console area in front of the dash. But that is in their rig. In the toad, a stand would not work. The ease of moving my 2610 from either of my vehicles -- or to rental car if I travel otherwise cannot be duplicated very well with a laptop. Yes, it's more inexpensive, but the trade-offs were just not worth it to me. Of course, if one buys one of those stands, a good antennae, and so forth -- that would be approaching the $375 I paid for a 2610 w/current maps and SW. Of course, that assumes you already have a laptop to begin with -- and one does not mind moving it around for home computing and the as a GPS while driving.

Jeff Cousins said:

Bob:

I just uploaded V8 last week and updated the firmware. The Lowe's was a couple of miles north of the location it showed and the area was a swamp that had never been developed. Garmin seems to have a problem with getting the right block, many times the proper location is down the street a block or so but usually not this far.

Have you had any problems since upgrading? This morning I was on the north side of San Antonio and the route I had saved took me through San Antonio on I-10. I drove thirty miles  on TX 46 to Boerne. While the Garmin showed me on 46 it did not recompute the route until I was about a half mile from I-10 (The route it was displaying).

This was a first in the year and a half I have owned the 2720.

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Thanks for the feedback, Jeff.  Hopefully, we can spend some time in QZ comparing to see if glitches show up on one and not another, using the same routing criteria. Do you happen to know the "correct" coordinates of the Lowe's in question in San Antonio -- and the address. I would like to put in that address, and then compare coordinates I get to the correct coordinates.

My 2610 came with V8 so that was not really an update -- but rather the first that I installed. The update seems to be a complete system that overlays the former version. Jerry F. mentioned the free SW upgrade download, so I did that right away as well. The only "hole" that I have encountered was the Sam's thing that I mention in an earlier post. However, that was a new address and not in V8. On another occasion, a display tab of the next turn (not while routing) disappeared. I turned the unit off then back on -- and it reappeared. So as with any computer, a reboot is sometimes needed to clear out the junk.

The other thing I noticed and think I mentioned earlier -- is if I turn the unit back on while in a parking lot, having stopped during routing. It gets confused and thinks it is still on the route and take awhile to decide to recalculate. However, I have learned to just do a manual recalculate as soon as I'm clear of the parking lot and it's back on track quickly.

But again -- I don't have anywhere near the mileage on these units as Ron or Gary has -- so my sampling is pretty sparse so far. But the point that I have been making about what someone can expect from this technology leads me to believe that it will be very useful to me, and I won't expect it to be perfect or even near perfect. Hey, even smart bombs miss the target occasionally -- and that data is updated almost in real time. 

Have tried several types including Garmin, Magellan, Streets and Trips and TomTom in the past two years.  Streets and Trips on the laptop is good but is hard to see while driving in bright sunlight.  After trying several of the portable units that friends had, I purchased a TomTom 910 and used it last Oct for a 6000 mile trip through the northern states and into Boston and the New England states.  The maps seem to be accurate with the exception of some new street construction within the last year or so.  Don't know yet how updates will be handled.