Warranty Claim?

I'm new to this forum, but I'd like some feedback.

In September 2014 I purchased a Pacific Coachworks Tango 21UL from Happy Daze RV in Sacramento, CA. We took it camping once nearby in October 2014 and things seemed fine.

In May 2015 I brought it in to the service department for some minor adjustments (door not latching, tank gauge check), and once I got there, I was very alarmed to see a significant bend (about 20 degrees)between the trailer and the tongue. I had the service folks come out, and they took pictures. I then took my own pictures as well.

I left it there with them, as it was clearly not safe to tow at this point, and needs to be replaced under warranty. They submitted as a warranty claim. They informed me that they spoke to both Pacific Coachworks and the frame manufacturer, Lippert Components. Both deny a warranty claim and told me to submit it to my insurance agency. I have done so, and am waiting to get an estimate on the repair cost.

Both Pacific Coachworks and Lippert Components assert this was the result of some damage and is not a manufacturing warranty issue. Problem is, I cannot recall any time this was damaged. The only thing that could have happened would be normal bumps in the road - stuff that should not be a problem for a camping trailer.

We?ve had this for less than a year. If I repair it under insurance, I?ll have to pay a deductable, it will void the rest of my warranty, and my insurance may go up.

Any advice? Any suggestions on how to fight the warranty rejection?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByHUVbXVuYoed2VzVkRVdmxkbVk&authuser=0

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByHUVbXVuYoeYzc0ckxldDEwUkE&authuser=0

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByHUVbXVuYoeSnBkYXp0RFY3MGs&authuser=0

Do you park your trailer at your residence? I only ask because it looks like the frame was bent with some force looking at the photos. Did someone unknowingly "borrow" your trailer? I doubt you will have much luck with a warranty claim, from my seat it does look like travel damage.

WOW. Was the trailer overloaded?  If it's not, I can't see how you could have damaged it any other way.  Was your weight distribution hitch adjusted right?  Was the truck bed loaded with a lot of weight?

As loaded for travel, what is the weight at the hitch? This looks like it was caused by a road dip/frost heave with a high weight on the hitch. I've seen this kind of damage in Alaska because of the severe frost heaves. If this trailer is heavy in the front it could be that the "A" frame is undersized.

ken

Seems the trailer should be designed for just about any kind of driving, within limits of course. But if it happened while driving I can't imagine you would not remember something as it would have been extreme.

If not from driving did you by chance have rear leveling jacks down while parked? If so is it possible you raised the front of the trailer to the point that it was supported by only the rear jacks and the front pad (I realized it is a manual front jack)?

Also, did you only notice the damage at the service center and if so before or after it went in for service?



Mike

i hate to be a naysayer but something isn't adding up i grew around trailers my dad built scamper and skipper trailers in the 70 and 80s ( he was the plant manager) and I've been around them all my life and never seen that.  not to say its not possible because obviously it is.

ps a good welder wouldnt charge more than a few hundred buck to cut it off and weld a new piece of rec tubing in place are reweld it

I saw this on a different forum but could not see the pictures. I have seen this happen to other trailers. To me it seems like a design flaw.  The A frame does not look that strong, mine seems thinker and larger than that.  Also my trailer the A frame is welded under the frame not in front of it.  That said, like if said elsewhere, a good dealer should fight for you.  Damage is damage and if it is under warranty it should be fixed. Does not matter if you where camping or driving down the road.

One other thought, is the back of your truck always so low or is it because of the bent frame.  How tight do you have the WDH?

GaryWT said:

I saw this on a different forum but could not see the pictures. I have seen this happen to other trailers. To me it seems like a design flaw.  The A frame does not look that strong, mine seems thinker and larger than that.  Also my trailer the A frame is welded under the frame not in front of it.  That said, like if said elsewhere, a good dealer should fight for you.  Damage is damage and if it is under warranty it should be fixed. Does not matter if you where camping or driving down the road.

One other thought, is the back of your truck always so low or is it because of the bent frame.  How tight do you have the WDH?

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Their truck is so low because the WDH isn't doing anything. The entire weight of the front of the trailer is on the truck. I also think it is poor design.  The hitch weight is 480#.

That's such an obvious failure that it must have happened while driving to the service place. No way you would have hooked it up like that.  I would bet on a manufacturing flaw in the Lippert trailer frame - I see more than a few such complaints on their trailer frames when reading various RV blogs.  But since they are denying it, you could get into a long harangue and would likely have to hire your own chassis experts to provide independent analysis. Your best hope is that the insurance company will cover it.

Gary RV Roamer said:

That's such an obvious failure that it must have happened while driving to the service place. No way you would have hooked it up like that.  I would bet on a manufacturing flaw in the Lippert trailer frame - I see more than a few such complaints on their trailer frames when reading various RV blogs.  But since they are denying it, you could get into a long harangue and would likely have to hire your own chassis experts to provide independent analysis. Your best hope is that the insurance company will cover it.

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i can see one side doing it by bending and twisting - but both sides? at the same place - its too symetrical to be a fault i think.

Rene T said:

Their truck is so low because the WDH isn't doing anything. The entire weight of the front of the trailer is on the truck. I also think it is poor design.  The hitch weight is 480#.

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Just seems extra low, when I use to hook to a 150 my truck was never that low before putting on the bars.  I guess the bending must add to the pressure.

The bars work by trying to make a straight line out of the normal "V" between the truck and trailer.

With the trailer tongue bent up like that, there won't be any pressure on the equalizing arms until the truck is at an equal slant - nose up, tongue down.

In other words, the equalizing part of the hitch stopped working when the trailer tongue bent.

I agree with Gary - there's no way you could have not noticed the tongue was bent like that when you hitched up the trailer.  Even if you overlooked the obvious, there would be no tension on the equalizing bars when you went to connect their chains to the saddles.

I've never seen anything like that before now.  Sure looks like a weak frame to me.

I'm really curious what your insurance company will do for you.

Please keep us posted.

Seriously my 2000 Jayco Eagle has frame twice the size of that. That just appears to be cheaply made and under built.

My impression is that " cheaply made and under built" is the order of the day at Lippert. I see numerous complaints about early life failures in many ofther components, e.g. trailer frames and axles, leveling jacks, slide mechanisms, etc.  The RV manufacturing business is always seeking the low bidder and Lippert is happy to oblige with cost-cutting on their components.

One of the reason I never suggest a "Lite" trailer or RV to anyone. To make it lighter you have to cut corners and typically construction and stability is cut back to give more in the living quarters. If you've seen where I've been with my RV on forestry dirt roads and been camping that little tongue would never survive.

Try this test track on that trailer... I hardly doubt it would survive...  : But surprised that the video was on a Lite Version...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqsuvOuRKw

Mopar1973Man said:

One of the reason I never suggest a "Lite" trailer or RV to anyone. To make it lighter you have to cut corners and typically construction and stability is cut back to give more in the living quarters. If you've seen where I've been with my RV on forestry dirt roads and been camping that little tongue would never survive.

Try this test track on that trailer... I hardly doubt it would survive...  : But surprised that the video was on a Lite Version...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqsuvOuRKw

Click to expand...

Maybe it was a cherry-picked TT. Did you read this comment on the video?

When I was watching this video I was almost laughing!  I own a 2010 Kodiak 24RBSL.  Every time I took it on the cross bronx  expressway between the Throggs Neck Bridge and the George Washington Bridge in NY the wheels would bottom out on the RV wheel well.  In addition, I went down a gravel road at 5 MPH in Pennsylvania and bent the axle.

I never ever over load it.  I actually weigh it each season at a moving company around the corner from my house.  I called and asked to speak to an engineer or a product manager and they refused.

Click to expand...

Mike

I would have to agree with the mention of a tongue failure. Either too thin of gauge metal or a bad lot of metal in building the A-frame. I worked at a metal distributor for 8 years and I think I can recognize overstressed metal. I would love to know what gauge rec tubing was used in the construction of that tongue? A bad lot of tubing is also possible that Lippert wasn't aware of. But that shouldn't make them not liable. Maybe it's just now coming to the surface. Either way, shouldn't be an insurance issue.
Don't forget, apparently the dealer was interested when you pulled in by taking pictures.

Talking major bucks to get repaired on such a new TT. If I read your first post correctly, you only used it once last Fall. Being so new, welding in a new tongue would be out of the question for me. Unless a last resort.

Otherwise, I would consider an attorney to put a little heat on the dealer and Lippert. Gary mentions the "lowest bidder" mentality when it comes to manufacturers. And he's correct. I delivered literally tons of metal to RV and cargo trailer manufacturers in northern Indiana. First name basis with many while working there. 
Maybe Lippert went too far.
Keep us informed.   

Mopar1973Man said:

Try this test track on that trailer... I hardly doubt it would survive...  : But surprised that the video was on a Lite Version...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqsuvOuRKw

Click to expand...

One thing I noticed was the testing on the video was done without equalizing bars on the hitch.  The weight distributing head is there, but there are no bars between the head and the trailer tongue.

Something like the undulating test, where the truck and trailer are violently bobbing up and down, would put maximum stress on the trailer's A-frame if it was done with the weight distributing bars in place.

I have to agree with Gary... Lippert stuff just doesn't cut it sometimes. I've read WAY too many complaints about them. My next TT will not have a Lippert frame. Good luck...