Continuing saga of the Allegro Bus -The other two issues

dpickard said:

I don't know how to check for door seal leaks.

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Use the old dollar bill trick.  Put a $1.00 bill  (a $100.00 would also work  ;D) between the door  gasket and frame and close the door on it. Try pulling it out. If you feel resistance, then it's OK at that spot. Do it over the entire door. 

What a neat idea! I'll try that!
Thank you Rene.

What works for me... on keeping the fridge working...

I am camping in a heat wave of nearly 100F humid degrees. Poor fridge was suffering some. But... you need to know that when it's hot outside the heat from the back of the fridge can't go up the chimney. In other words, cooler air coming in the lower vent is supposed to cause the hot air to rise out the reefer chimney. (This is layman terms, so you technical guys can jump all over me for not explaining it in a more complicated method.)

In summer high heats, there is no cooler air to make the heat rise up the chimeny. So it needs help from a fan.

In my case, I have a big box fan I use outdoors by day to keep cool under the awning. But whenever I am not sitting by the fan, I put it on the card table (I use a folding card table outside for eating and typing and so on.) Anyhow, I put the big box fan on the card table aimed right at the outside refrigerator vent. This pushes air into the vent and forces the hot air up and out the chimney. I also do this all night long, so the fridge gets a good airing out and heat rise then too as well.

Absorption fridges (propane, 2 way and 3 way) all produce a lot of heat that needs to go up and out the chimney.

You can also use a clip on fan. Some refrigerators like mine, have a regular 2 outlet electric box installed, just plug into that. Or you may have an outside outlet on the side of  your rig or you can run a long outdoor electrical extension cord from the campground box to your fan. I run the long cord method, so I can move my big box fan where ever I need it.

I keep a big garbage bag handy, if the rains suddenly arrive, I can run outside, and cover up the fan in a hurry.

My fridge is working so fine now, with the help of the fan, that we are able to make ice twice a day.

We use two old fashioned ice trays, then we dump them in a plastic shoe box and keep that topped up in the freezer. We've had plenty of ice during the heat wave. WHEEEEEEEEE! I figure it's because we keep aiming the fan at the fridge when we aren't using it for our own comfort.

By the way... fridges are happiest when the freezer is full, frozen water (ice) works fine. Notice I said when the freezer is full. The fridge needs a little air circulation sometimes. Overloading a fridge can sometimes make it appear not to cool enough. I use a thermometer in the fridge all the time and sometimes put it in the freezer to test it, but since I am making so much ice, nothing to worry about there.

If I think the fridge thermometer isn't cool enough, then I double check by measuring one of the cold liquids like water, milk, juice etc.

All sorts of crap can stick to the fridge door seal. I clean mine with plain white vinegar mixed with a drop of dish soap. Soak a clean microfiber cloth in vinegar/soap, then squeeze it out nearly dry. Now wipe around the refrigerator seals. You might be disgusted at what you find!  Cleaning off all that dirt can make the seal work right again. I try to clean mine often. It's amazing how your natural skin oils from your fingertips can transfer to other areas and that causes tiny bits of dirt to stick and gone uncleaned, it really piles up.

That's my two cents.

The best RV repair book I have found was Bob Livingston's. Learned a lot there. I would love to buy them all if I could find room to store them.

Amazon has many RV repair books to choose from:
http://amzn.to/1e8lcig

The fan is a big help in really hot weather, especially if the fridge performance is marginal anyway. But their Norcold 1210 is factory equipped with two fans in the upper part of the cooling unit, controlled by their own thermostat.

And speaking of those fans, make sure they are running. The usually can be heard "whispering" on a quiet evening, but maybe not during the day. They come on when the outside fin temperature reaches about 130 and stays on til it drops back to 115. Most any 90 degree day will have those fans running non-stop.

I see I mistakenly pointed you at the Nrocold 1200 service manual earlier in this conversation. It should have been the 1210 manual (very similar but not identical). Find it here:    http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/ncold1210.pdf

The 1210 service manual has an entire section of ventilation problems and poor cooling performance.

Today's fin reading is 39.  I have not moved the thermistor at all from where it was when the reading of 32 was taken nor did I open the door until 10:45 AM (DST) to add the water bottles.  I bought the coach on May 15th.. "as is"... but...with the dealer's assurance that the coach was in good working order. The RV dealer in Ringgold, VA, ( RV Outlet USA ) told me "everything works fine on the coach." "We've tested it and any problems will be discovered and made right during PDI."

They are no help. I have called and they always say "the motorhome repair person will call you." I have been waiting two weeks. I have called back every couple of days to remind them I need help.

I am beginning to wonder if its time to call an attorney.

So frustrating.

Try to contact the service manager or even the owner of the dealership.

But don't forget you bought it "as is" (and it is probably written into the contract), with only verbal promises that everything was good.... kind of hard to prove otherwise. Be nice!!! That fact is liable to get thrown up into your face should you PO someone.....

Yeah, you are stuck relying on the dealer's "good will" to do anything about it. "As-is" means as-is unless you have some documented evidence (contract, video of PDI, etc.) of them stating "the refrigerator works". Sucks, but that the nature of buying stuff that has no warranty other than the dealer's willingness to preserve his reputation.

The 39 degree reading (vs 32) probably means the cooling unit isn't actively cooling at the moment, i.e. the thermistor is not calling for cooling.  What are your thermometers saying?

Have you tried placing an additional fan in the area behind the cooling unit (from the outside of the coach)?  Without some experimentation, it's difficult to move forward in the diagnosis.

Where are you located now?  I would like to refer you to an RV refrigeration specialist, but they are few and far between. Most RV dealers don't have good refrigeration diagnostic people - they just replace either the cooling unit or the entire fridge. Ford RV Refrigeration is one place that actually diagnoses and repairs absorption fridges - see http://rvrefrigeration.com/rv-service/

You might also consider switching to a residential type fridge, powered by your inverter when not on shore power. This is a very popular upgrade and many new coaches have them as standard equipment.

Alfa38User said:

But don't forget you bought it "as is" (and it is probably written into the contract), with only verbal promises that everything was good.... kind of hard to prove otherwise. Be nice!!! That fact is liable to get thrown up into your face should you PO someone.....

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Was it purchased "as is"? I may have missed that. If not, did they give you any kind of warrantee on paper.  You're asking if it's time to get a attorney involved kind a tells me you had some kind of warrantee.

Gary,

I looked at the Ford RV Refrigeration website. Thank you for the info.

I am in Eden, NC which  is about 35 minutes North and about 15 minutes West of Greensboro.
I have no warranty papers or written promises. I relied on the dealer's verbal representation of the condition of the coach in making the purchase decision. "We've checked it out...everything works fine." they said.
The coach was very clean and, from what was visible, would be a good 9 out of 10 inside and out; giving the appearance of good maintenance.

In its favor, it ran flawlessly on the "maiden voyage" to Key West and back. Unfortunately, the a/c, and/or generator & refer issues have spoiled what I otherwise consider an excellent coach.

Its very depressing considering this will be our last coach due to Gil's age and the recent discovery of his precarious state of health.
I had SO wanted this to be a good move and for him not to be burdened with trouble.

"Upgrading," in our case, has proven that the grass isn't necessarily greener with a newer coach.

I almost forgot.

Here is today's update:

Fin temp was 29 at 8:30AM.  The setting is at 9. Running on LP.

The thermometers (all 3) immersed in water since yesterday read a consistent 46 degrees.

Today's plan is to do the dollar bill thing to test the door seals and afterwards give them a thorough cleaning to see if that helps any. The refer LOOKS squeaky clean but you never know.

I will move the thermistor to the last fin on the right per the Ford's video and place it near the top of the fin to see what happens.

OK, so [at first blush] it appears the cooling unit is functioning adequately, but the fridge "box" is gaining heat faster than the fins can cool it. An absorption fridge doesn't have a lot of cooling capacity and may not keep up when over-taxed. The two suspicious areas would be the door seals and the baffles & sealing around the back (cooling unit area), which may be allowing a lot of heat to surround the box. 130+ degree air around the sides or top of the box will overwhelm its ability to cool.  That's why the installation and service manuals have large sections on sealing and baffles - they are critical to adequate performance.

How did the fridge perform earlier in your trip? I notice you said the light fixture was badly rusted, which makes me think there was a lot of moisture inside the box. That's a possible sign of bad door seals, allowing warm moist air inside and condensing on the interior surfaces. However, it might also be poor fridge habits, leaving the door open too long, or frequent door openings. Again, these fridges are not as forgiving as your home unit.

We all understand your frustration and many of us have been there ourselves. Hope we can help you get your rig to the point where the fun outweighs the stress!

I was hoping you might be near Ford Refrigeration. If still in Florida I would have suggested Bryant RV Services, another guy who really knows RV fridges. Ford has his RVN network, people he has trained and supposedly know their way around as well. Maybe one of them would be nearer, but if close I would go direct to Ford. I don't have any personal experience there, but he is clearly more than a parts swapper.

He can also tell you what your electric mode needs to work properly, but I would bet on one of the two heater elements having failed (if both had failed, the fridge should self-diagnose it).

Hello all

I have just come in from doing the dollar bill test. I could tell there was some resistance but I was able to pull the dollar bill through without too much effort.

I cleaned the freezer and refrigerator door seals with good old soap and water and dried them down.

I also moved the thermistor to the last fin on the right about an inch from the top. 
As far as how it performed on the trip, it never was anywhere near what a good refer should act like.  The best I ever got it down to was 40 degrees briefly. Needless to say, we had to eat out a lot for fear of food poisoning.

Ice cream never froze hard in the freezer on the trip.  I tried both sides.

I printed out the Norcold service manual from the link you sent, Gary. Thanks again for that!  I went through the diagnostics and there were no fault codes. The electrical diagnostics showed readings that were right where they ought to be.

Back to the waiting game.

I hate reading a post like this.

Last week I was assigned a new Class A unit from Thor...about $150,000 new the manager said. It took me some ten to twelve hours to get the unit road ready after its last 3 day trip.

Total piece of crap dressed up to look like a hot dog. I have no idea what the old timers experienced over the years, but this industry seems like a poisonous pool of junk being pumped out for those unable or unwilling to plunk down the high end dollars, and for those who can't get beyond first impressions and self-evaluate with the help of a professional the actual condition of a rig and its build quality, used or new.

The industry has become an expert at how to dress these entry-level or poorly cared for rigs up to look beautiful and then down into the quick sand you go wondering how you got yourself into it...with new and used buyers simply expected to carry these problems happily on their backs.

Here are a couple of appalling examples how an experienced technician does things that I know, call him x, to pronounce that the a/c and furnace works.
1) turns on the a/c, puts up his hand to feel the fan blowing, and says the a/c is working just fine. Never heard of a delta t test.
2) on a hot day, doesn't know how to bypass the thermostat to activate the furnace, so say its fine..don't need to test it on a hot day.

And hey, after reading a lot of posts in a variety of internet rv forums, experience rv owners are often just as clueless, with pride,...with few, though some, exceptions that have some/variety of  knowledge/expertise. Emptying the black tank a hundred times doesn't get one very far.

I would just drive the rig back to the dealer, with a big smile on your face, then try your best to get them to help you while you are there. You can also accidentally block in the service area or the gate while you give them big smiles asking for help.  They might just help you to get you out of the way again.

Imagine you're at a dealer and hear someone loudly and politely ask for help about a rig they recently bought from them... seems like they would rather run help than have you "politely" chase off potential customers.

Dianne, so sorry to hear about your bus troubles and your husbands health problems. That's a lot to deal with especially soon after the purchase of a new to you MH. You have all the excellent advice above along with the manuals but I can add one thing to the conversation. My BIL has a Norcold similar to yours that was experiencing the same problems on a trip we were on. It was about 92 degrees ambient and his fridge starting getting warm very fast. After some troubleshooting I found one of his circ fans had quit and as Gary described above, the unit was just overwhelmed with hot air in the rear. This fan could not be replaced without us removing the fridge and I didn't want to attempt during our travels. To get him through I removed the lower access panel and clipped on a fan blowing into the bottom, also as suggested above. This was the size of a small table fan so it had a lot of air movement going into the lower section behind the fridge. The air movement brought the fridge inside temp back down (took about 4 hrs) and the fridge  worked fine until we arrived back home.
I'm hoping this is the last of your troubles and if the outside fan doesn't work I also suggest going back to your dealer, or whoever might be closest, to help you with this repair. Good luck with it.

Mavarick,

Thank you very much for your kind message. Please know that it meant a great deal to me. There are some wonderful, caring people on this board and I am so grateful to everyone who has responded and tried to help.

Dianne

Hi Mermaid and thanks for your postings.

I called and tried to speak to the owner today. Instead, I got shifted to the sales manager who said that they were "just swamped with new deliveries"  and they "sold 188 units this month" and someone will get to me when they can.

I have decided I won't hold my breath or beg these folks for help any longer.

If anyone out there is thinking of purchasing an RV or travel trailer from RV Outlet USA in Ringgold, VA please take heed from my experience with them.

That is what they count on, that you can easily be blown off. I think they are just blowing hot air up your chassis. I'm with dear miss mermaid. First buy some customized "Dissatisfied Customer" t shirts and just walk around with a smile on your face. You can do that outside the dealership as well, and don't forget to hold a big sign and if they give you a bad time call the local newspaper. have fun.

Tell them what you will do and then have a painter put "This lemon bought at RV Outlet USA," and park it out front or park it at the local newspaper office first and let them know you are headed for the dealership.

communication = response

nothing like giving them some free advertising