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Author Topic: 4K TV  (Read 5047 times)

SeilerBird

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4K TV
« on: June 26, 2015, 05:00:03 PM »
I have been an early adapter all my life. My latest early adapt was to get a 4K TV. I had to upgrade my surround sound system first to one that was capable of handling a 4K signal. I got a Yamaha 7.1 receiver, 7 Polk bookshelf speakers and a Polk powered subwoofer. It sounds fantastic.

The TV I got was a 49 inch Vizio smart TV:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TZY5JC6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

I planned on upgrading my Internet connection to be able to receive a 4K signal but after watching the TV for a few days I decided that was not necessary. I get a 20 meg signal and that is good enough for 1080p but not good enough for 4K. However there is very little 4K content out there yet so there is no rush.

The shocking thing about the TV is how much better 1080p looks compared to a normal 1080p TV. There is a huge difference in the quality of the picture. The difference in the detail is staggering. I did not expect the upconverted 1080 to look this good. I don't know why it is so much better because in theory it should not be that much sharper. Not only is it a sharper picture, but the dynamic range has a massive increase, the amount of grain is reduced and the amount of artifacts is greatly reduced.
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Ken & Sheila

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2015, 05:04:34 PM »
This upgrade is on the summer agenda.
Interesting that the 1080 picture is better.

ken
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 05:08:45 PM »
You will not regret it Ken. I will be curious to read your review.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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PJ Stough

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 05:11:17 PM »
We upgraded to a 4K tv last December.  We have a 40" Samsung LG.  Geesh, it is bad when you cant even remember what kind of tv you have.  Very nice picture.  Cant wait to see what it looks like in 4K.

Paul
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 09:54:42 PM by Paul & Ann »
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edjunior

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2015, 06:29:44 PM »
We got ours about 3 months ago.  We got a 65" Samsung.  I'm not usually one that takes the saying "night and day difference" too seriously, but this is.  We had a 50" Pioneer Plasma before, and the new Samsung is one great upgrade.  For the first couple of weeks, we kept getting freaked out because it looked like the people were right in the living room with us.  It's still like that sometimes.  The picture is crazy good.

We did get a 4K movie and the detail is...what did SeilerBird say...staggering.  We watched Gravity.  The movie itself was pretty slow...good, but kinda slow.  But the detail of the 4K was awesome.  The big drawback to these...I hesitate to call them a "TV"...is the sound.  Because they are so slim, you just can't get any kind of sound out of them with the built in speakers.  It's like going to a 3D High Def movie theater but listening to the sound on a walkie talkie.  So you have to get a sound system for it.  We got a Sony sound bar with a subwoofer, and it really brings things to life.  I'm sure a full features surround sound system would really expand it to it's full potential, and I'll probably do that someday, but for now, it is good enough for us.

The other reason we finally went for broke was we were tired of external devices for getting to Netflix (and other stuff).  With the Smart TV, all that is built in, and it works great.  Netflix streams smoothly, and is much easier to get into since it's built into the TV.  Other apps are included and are fun to play with, but Netflix gets fairly abused.

So if you've been thinking about it, but are not sure, go for it.  You won't regret it.
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legrandnormand

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 07:10:13 PM »
So my guest for you is "the bigger, the better" ! ;)
Normand
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gwcowgill

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 07:28:01 PM »
I have been considering a 65" for the S&B but will probably wait until the end of the summer. The main reason I am considering the upgrade is being able to read the smaller print on the screen but, as I look and shop I am amazed at the difference.
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 07:30:09 PM »
In case anyone is wondering what 4K is I will give you a quick and dirty explanation. SD TV was the first generation of TVs from 1939 to 2009. There is 640 x 480 pixels on screen in a 3:4 format. That is a total of 307,200 pixels or 1/3 of a megapixel. HD TV is the second generation that became the standard in 2009. It has 1920 x 1080 pixels on a 16:9 format for a total of 2,073,600 or two megapixels. 4K is a future standard that has 3840 x 2160 pixels in a 16:9 format that has a total of 8,294,400 pixels or 8 megapixels. It has four times the resolution of HD and 27 times the resolution of SD. 4K is the horizontal size, 3840 rounded up.  In order to see the individual pixels I have to get my nose less than a foot away from the screen. The image is so realistic that when I saw a photo of an ice cream cone displayed I wanted to lick the screen. The blacks are the blackest black I have ever seen on a TV.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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gwcowgill

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2015, 07:36:06 PM »
Tom, I understand that Sony is the most compatible with the different 4K programming. I don't remember the details now but it had something to do with the "Smart" content. When I get back home I will start getting serious.
2009 Bounder 36B, 2014 Honda CR-V, various grandchildren when school is out. KG4LHS
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2015, 07:49:23 PM »
Tom, I understand that Sony is the most compatible with the different 4K programming. I don't remember the details now but it had something to do with the "Smart" content. When I get back home I will start getting serious.
Glen - I had not heard that. Sony does have a $700 4K player, but it is basically a hard drive hooked up to the Sony Playstation Network. The prices they want for renting a 4k movie is obscene so I passed on the player. Vizio and LG have the best Smart Operating Systems in my book. Sony and Samsung have the worst and the rest are in the middle, IMHO. And the OS is everything because the picture is basically the same on all sets. There are a lot of adjustments in each set so you can make the picture look about anyway you want.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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blw2

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2015, 08:29:11 PM »
just back from Best Buy tonight, hoping to find a small sound bar that might work for me.....
Wow, I see what you mean about the 4K pictures!
ANd so many of them are curved now, which seems nifty... not sure what a difference the curve really makes, but all together its something for sure..... and HUGE ones too...
I can remember vividly the 1st time I saw 1080P in HD..... this is just as amazing as that was!

(it was a strike out on the soundbar though.  They don't have any low end stuff....
Brad (DW + 3 kids)
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gwcowgill

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2015, 08:44:58 PM »
I have a Vizio in my bedroom in the S&B which I like real well and a Samsung in the living area which is a 32" and seems to be getting smaller for my old eyes. At least that's my story to DW and I am sticking to it.
2009 Bounder 36B, 2014 Honda CR-V, various grandchildren when school is out. KG4LHS
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2015, 08:51:56 PM »
I looked at curved tvs but for the size I was getting it doesn't matter. I think you need to be over 70 inches before the curve is useful.

Walmart has 4k tvs on display if anyone wants to check them out. But take your Visa with you. ;D
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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blw2

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2015, 09:02:07 PM »
what sort of resolution do you get from over the air?
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2015, 09:07:02 PM »
what sort of resolution do you get from over the air?
OTA resolution is exactly the same with HD and 4K since the resolution is determined by the broadcasters. However it looks way better on a 4K TV. I just can't figure out why. Stop by a Best Buy and have a peek.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 08:55:15 AM by SeilerBird »
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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dhyravy

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2015, 08:48:48 AM »
Since my day job is systems engineer with a major DTV broadcast equipment manufacturer, I thought I would weigh in on this one.  The 4k standard relies on another standard called HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) to make the program stream bit rates low enough to be streamed over IP networks.  This is not a standard that broadcasters will be offering in the next few years due partially to the lack of commercial encoders and the fact that as already mentioned there is very little content. 

One major reason that the 1080i programming seems to look better on these new sets is due to a bit of trickery where the TV is processing the interlaced format video into progressive format and increasing the scan rate so that the content looks good on the new screen.  In the early prototypes, the interlaced video did not play well with the new displays.  Keep in mind that in North America, all SD content uses interlaced scanning and there are only 2 HD formats in use outside of streaming video.  HD comes in either 1080i ( interlaced) or 720p (progressive) scan.  For broadcast/satellite providers to switch to 4k will require a "forklift" upgrade of their facilities and most don't plan to support it for now.

At least for the foreseeable future, 4k will be the realm of movie theaters, disc players, cable, and internet streaming.
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2015, 08:54:32 AM »
Since my day job is systems engineer with a major DTV broadcast equipment manufacturer, I thought I would weigh in on this one.  The 4k standard relies on another standard called HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) to make the program stream bit rates low enough to be streamed over IP networks.  This is not a standard that broadcasters will be offering in the next few years due partially to the lack of commercial encoders and the fact that as already mentioned there is very little content. 

One major reason that the 1080i programming seems to look better on these new sets is due to a bit of trickery where the TV is processing the interlaced format video into progressive format and increasing the scan rate so that the content looks good on the new screen.  In the early prototypes, the interlaced video did not play well with the new displays.  Keep in mind that in North America, all SD content uses interlaced scanning and there are only 2 HD formats in use outside of streaming video.  HD comes in either 1080i ( interlaced) or 720p (progressive) scan.  For broadcast/satellite providers to switch to 4k will require a "forklift" upgrade of their facilities and most don't plan to support it for now.

At least for the foreseeable future, 4k will be the realm of movie theaters, disc players, cable, and internet streaming.
Thank you so much for that great explanation. I am personally not worried about OTA upgrading since OTA 1080 looks so good and I watch very little OTA. All I really care about is that Netflix and Amazon both offer 4K content and it appears they are adding content frequently.

Do you know if there are any plans to build and sell a 4K disc player?
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2015, 10:09:21 AM »
Quote
The shocking thing about the TV is how much better 1080p looks compared to a normal 1080p TV.

Native 1080p requires 1920x1080 resolution. It may be that the native resolution of your previous tv wasn't really up to 1080. All four of my tvs will play 1080p, but only the 55" has the resolution (pixels) needed to actually display it in native mode. The other three smaller sets interpolate (down convert).  Your home theater upgrade and associated cabling might have helped too, if the video is switched through it. There is an opportunity to lose resolution at every equipment step along the way, and sometimes people think they are getting high-def but actually have just a nice bright standard def picture.
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SargeW

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2015, 10:19:14 AM »
So if I understand, 1080i should look better than a 1080p setting on the TV?  I was under the impression that 1080p was the highest resolution available these days.
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Ned

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2015, 10:35:47 AM »
So if I understand, 1080i should look better than a 1080p setting on the TV?  I was under the impression that 1080p was the highest resolution available these days.

Both have the same resolution, but 1080i is displayed in 2 frames of 540 pixels in height vs. 1080p in one frame of 1080 pixels.  Here's one explanation of the difference.  1080p will look smoother when there's fast movement on the screen.

The highest resolution today is actually called 8k and is twice the resolution of 4k with 4 times the pixels, but I don't believe any displays are available for sale yet nor any 8k programming.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 10:37:55 AM by Ned »
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SeilerBird

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 10:42:50 AM »
Native 1080p requires 1920x1080 resolution. It may be that the native resolution of your previous tv wasn't really up to 1080. All four of my tvs will play 1080p, but only the 55" has the resolution (pixels) needed to actually display it in native mode. The other three smaller sets interpolate (down convert).  Your home theater upgrade and associated cabling might have helped too, if the video is switched through it. There is an opportunity to lose resolution at every equipment step along the way, and sometimes people think they are getting high-def but actually have just a nice bright standard def picture.
No, my TV was great. I am comparing it to all the other 1080 TVs I see in Walmart and Best Buys. I shopped endlessly before I bought this thing. I have been an audiophile and a videophile all my adult life. This is a smart TV so none of the picture really goes through the receiver. Only my Playstation and Amazon Fire TV goes through the receiver. And I don't use Fire anymore since Amazon is built into the TV itself and I rarely watch Blu rays on my Playstation.
I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
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SargeW

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Re: 4K TV
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 10:50:16 AM »
Thanks Ned!
Marty--
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