Did I get lied to?

Brand new to the board. We are an experienced pop up camping couple but absolute newbies at 5th wheel camping. We have a 2013 Dodge 1500 with a 5.7 V8 crew cab and short box. We went camper shopping and told the salesman what we used as a tow vehicle. He put us into a 2016 Keystone Cougar XLite 27RKS with a dry weight rating of 7045 and a hitch weight of 1230. I thought this compared well with our max tow weight of 8600 and payload of 1450. Reading this board, not so sure now. Seems a consensus is the 3/4 ton is the way to go, even with GVWR of 6800 and GCWR OF 14150. The weight of the truck with a full tank of fuel, wife and I, and two dogs is about 5500.

We brought it home and I think it rolls ok, but was driving sub speed limit with no winds. Is there anything I can add as an aftermarket item that can give me a little more towing cushion, am I ok now?  For what it's worth, I live in Iowa and we camp within 100 miles of our little house on the prairie, and will for the lifespan of this truck. We will always tow the trailer without water as the campgrounds we use are full hookups.

I love the truck and love the trailer and really don't want to get rid of either, but I also don't want to drive into a ditch. Thanks for all the opinions and answers in advance.

The weight police on the forum will be all over you. If it were me, for the short trips on flat roads, I would not be afraid of it. If the truck squats too much, add air bags.

Use and enjoy both.

Yea, you we fed a hugh line of BS!  Remember, salesmen want one thing, your money.
Once you get family in the truck and the fiver loaded with a weekends worth of food and stuff and drive across a set of scales you will understand the term, OVERLOADED!!!!

Personally, I would not even attempt towing until I got the correct tool, a 2500 series at minimum truck.

Keep an eye on your transmission temps.

It wasn't the weight that did my 2007 F150 in, it was the wind. I could tow a Bobcat with attachments, pallets of cement or drywall with no problems. That huge box with a head wind ... not so much.

The new Ram 2500 doesn't flinch.

A coordina to your numbers, your truck already weights 5500. This is without the hitch weight. You were told 1230, but that is at best dry. If you add the weight of the hitch 100-200 #, yes you were lied to Since your truck GVWR is 6800.  The pin weight when you fill your FW will be more like 2,000 - 2,200#.

The question is not whether or not it can pull it safely, nope!  You should care for the safety of yourself and your family.

I won't go into weights, overloaded limits, or pulling.  The most important thing to me is, and always has been not what your truck can pull. Trucks these days are amazing for their pulling ability. The most important thing is what you can safely and quickly STOP.  Pulling a grade in second gear at 20 MPH isn't going to hurt you or your family. Not being able to quickly stop it when that idiot in the Prius pulls in front of you and brakes hard to make that off ramp, will.   

Customer: I do not know can my Chevy Luv Pickup tow that big trailer?
Salesman: NO PROBLEM!!!!

You see to a salesman who works on commission there is one and only one problem.
That.... Is you walking out the door without a customer copy of a signed sales contract in your hand.

Lying by ignorance (theirs and yours) perhaps.  I don't think most salespeople are actively trying to put you in an unsafe situation... they just may not take the time to learn about the details.  The issues with RV sales folks + towing advice is that many (most?) probably have limited personal experience with RV'ing and towing.  So they will give you answers from numbers in a book, and not from actual on-the-road experience.  Additional weights of people, cargo, etc. are often overlooked or ignored.  And then, yes, their main objective is profit and they likely figure that you, the owner, will eventually figure out the rest on your own (including upgrading to a different truck if needed).

As Sarge mentioned, there are more advantages to a 2500-series TV than just pulling power... such as upgraded suspension, wheels, brakes, transmission, and cooling (both engine and tranny), all of which make the towing experience easier and more safe.

I don't bother looking at dry weights as GVWR is what really matters. That 5th wheel's GVWR is 10,000lbs. How close you come to that can only be determined by weighing it. Based on that number alone though, and with the trucks max trailer weight of 8,600lbs, I do believe the sales rep mislead you. This is not even getting into how much of the truck's payload is eaten up by the trailer's hitch weight, which in this case is most of it.

Regardless, you have the trailer now and taking it back because you were mislead or wanted to believe is out of the question. As suggested, air bags if needed and take it very easy. The flat terrain helps. Still good brake controller goes without saying.



Mike

You are probably overloaded. That 1230# corresponds to the dry trailer weight, and you ain't towing it dry or empty. Figure the pin weight is at least 20% of the actual trailer weight and maybe as much as 25%. 20% of the loaded trailer weight is probably in the 1600-2000 lb range. Plus the weight of the hitch and any passengers in the truck.  Nor is there much you can do about it.

Rather than conjecture and estimates, you should get the rig to a scale and see where you really stand.

scottydl said:

Lying by ignorance (theirs and yours) perhaps.  I don't think most salespeople are actively trying to put you in an unsafe situation... they just may not take the time to learn about the details. 

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I would have to say that when we bought our TT our young salesman was clueless and so were we.  I don't think the salesman intentionally gave us bad information but I do think he often guessed at the answers to our questions because he felt he was supposed to be "the expert" on everything relating to RVs.

Listen to Gary.  This sage RVer always has great advice!

Just reading through all the responses, seems to me that the safety of your family will trump staying with a, let me think of a nice word, questionable match up that you will worry about every time a new challenging situation comes up.

I didn't know that you can assume a salesman knows anything more, or is even responsible for anything more, than how to close a deal, or am I missing something? Obviously, your salesman is good at what he does.

Thanks for all the replies. I would say the salesman is a pretty experienced rver, or at least should be. He is the owner of the lot and, according to reviews, sells a bunch of rvs, around a thousand a year. I think I will have a chat with him tomorrow. As I remember, there is a short no questions asked return policy required of vehicle defeats in Iowa. Not sure if that applies to TT. As I said, I will see where I get talking with him.

Jimdamedic said:

Thanks for all the replies. I would say the salesman is a pretty experienced rver, or at least should be. He is the owner of the lot and, according to reviews, sells a bunch of rvs, around a thousand a year.

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Experienced in sales, certainly.  Experienced in the loaded weight of RV's, actual effects on hauling, towing long distances, etc.?  That remains to be known.  They are certainly two different areas of expertise.

halfwright said:

The weight police on the forum will be all over you. If it were me, for the short trips on flat roads, I would not be afraid of it. If the truck squats too much, add air bags.

Use and enjoy both.

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This is what I would do.  You're overloaded but should be okay for short, flat trips.

Gary RV Roamer said:

You are probably overloaded. That 1230# corresponds to the dry trailer weight, and you ain't towing it dry or empty. Figure the pin weight is at least 20% of the actual trailer weight and maybe as much as 25%. 20% of the loaded trailer weight is probably in the 1600-2000 lb range. Plus the weight of the hitch and any passengers in the truck.  Nor is there much you can do about it.

Rather than conjecture and estimates, you should get the rig to a scale and see where you really stand.

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Again, I would take Gary's advice and at the very least I would present Gary's information to the dealer.  If the dealer scuffs at Gary's info I would suspect the dealer's response.  I admit I don't know anything about the subject but I do trust Gary's advice.

SargeW said:

I won't go into weights, overloaded limits, or pulling.  The most important thing to me is, and always has been not what your truck can pull. Trucks these days are amazing for their pulling ability. The most important thing is what you can safely and quickly STOP.  Pulling a grade in second gear at 20 MPH isn't going to hurt you or your family. Not being able to quickly stop it when that idiot in the Prius pulls in front of you and brakes hard to make that off ramp, will. 

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it's not the truck that stops a trailer..... the trailer brakes do most of the stopping.

Hopefully. If the brakes are in perfect condition and work correctly.  But considering that many trailers outweigh their tow vehicles by 50% or more, getting it stopped on a down hill grade in a hard brake situation is dicey at best. 

And that is just the logic salesmen use to sell trailers that are too heavy for the buyers trucks.  And if that logic were correct, you should be able to pull a triple axle toy hauler with a half ton pickup, right?

SargeW said:

Hopefully. If the brakes are in perfect condition and work correctly.  But considering that many trailers outweigh their tow vehicles by 50% or more, getting it stopped on a down hill grade in a hard brake situation is dicey at best. 

And that is just the logic salesmen use to sell trailers that are too heavy for the buyers trucks.  And if that logic were correct, you should be able to pull a triple axle toy hauler with a half ton pickup, right?

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And on the other side of the equation are those selling the trucks. "Sir, I can tell you value your family, right?" "Good, because I know you would not put their safety at risk pulling that r-pod with anything less than an F350 Super Duty diesel dually."




Mike