Did I get lied to?

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John From Detroit said:
Customer: I do not know can my Chevy Luv Pickup tow that big trailer?
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I had one of those Luv trucks once.... that was one good little truck
well in regards to driving and off roading
Light and nimble, limited slip rear end would take me through all sorts of mud and snow... places that 4x4 couldn't go.
I used to load it too, and tow boats and such....
hated the tiny cab and the cheap body though...
 
Selling a 1000 trailers only means he is good at selling. However, civil law is on your side: it presumes that an RV sales dealership is more expert than the buyer and therefore has a fiduciary responsibility to advise the buyer about the safety of his planned purchase.  Case law is very clear on that, but nobody wants to, or should, go to court on that question. Talk to the dealer about being "oversold" and not adequately informed that your truck has insufficient capability to safely tow that size of trailer. Inform him of your concern promptly, but then get all the real numbers (spec and scale weights) for a further conversation about the remedy.

And YOU need to figure out whether you want a smaller trailer or a larger truck. If that's the smallest trailer that meets your expectations, then a larger truck is the only answer that makes sense. Well, unless having no trailer at all is an option.
 
If he can return it, and wants to keep the same truck, then perhaps he should forgo a 5th wheel and look at TTs.



Mike
 
Yes, you're overloaded.....but (I'm assuming) you bought the trailer you really like.  Trade in the truck on something that will pull it safely, even if you have to go used.  Any good modern 2500 will get the job done safely. Don't lower the water....raise the bridge.  As for being OK towing it on flat, short trips....don't.  If you have an accident and it's determined by the other's party's attorney(ies) that you knowingly and intentionally towed with an overloaded vehicle, there could be civil and even possibly criminal ramifications.  And if you think their attorney(ies) won't find this post online......  ;)  But that is secondary to the safety of you and your family.  If you get a nasty crosswind and the trailer drags the truck into a ditch, it won't end well.  What if you blow a tire on the trailer?  Can your 1500 control it, even on flat land....or will you just be along for the ride.  And then there's the subject of braking....which my friend Tony (Who, BTW, loves my Cummins) addressed....and I gave a counterpoint.

TonyDtorch said:
it's not the truck that stops a trailer..... the trailer brakes do most of the stopping.
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Until a wire gets pinched, grounds, and blows the fuse.  Now you have ZERO trailer brakes.  This will happen at the most inopportune time....like coming down a long, twisty 10% grade with nowhere to pull off.  Yes, it CAN happen....and if it does, you need a truck substantial enough to keep the trailer under control.

Finally, don't feel bad.  A lot of us have made goofs regarding safe towing weights when we were rookies at this.  And the salesperson is a charlatan.....especially if he owns the dealership.  He intentionally put you at risk to make a buck.  He knew damn good and well that the trailer was too much for your tow vehicle, and yet he talked you into buying it.  He could have told you that, and found you an alternative that was within your truck's specs.  So to answer your original question, yes....you got lied to.  That isn't your fault, so don't kick yourself.  Call the dealer and tell him what you've discovered.  Show him this thread if you want to....if he has a problem with me referring to him as a charlatan, he can call me and I will explain to him why he is just that.
 
Tinmania said:
And on the other side of the equation are those selling the trucks. "Sir, I can tell you value your family, right?" "Good, because I know you would not put their safety at risk pulling that r-pod with anything less than an F350 Super Duty diesel dually." ;)

Mike
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Absolutely.  The car salesman could very well tell you that you need a medium duty F550 to pull your popup.  This is why it behooves people to do their own research. 

Yes, I'm a Lieutenant in the Weight Police.....but I've seen the carnage that happens when a trailer starts wagging the dog.  It isn't pretty.  And the one thing that needs to be addressed.....having too much truck makes the trip soooo much more enjoyable.  Take it to a safe speed and enjoy the trip.....which is much better than arriving (hopefully) at your campsite 4 hours later a nervous wreck from the white knuckle trip...and then spending the entire time camping worrying about the trip home.
 
Yet another issue is Maddison Ave (Advertising center of the nation and thus the world) where they film things like an F-150 pulling oh, a rail car.

In low gear.. On a closed track, and level ground.. Yes, safely

In the freeway .. You will never get me to believe those ads are anything but DANGEROUS. (Unless you try to convince me they are deadly that is,, but Deadly is a sub set of Dangerous).
 
Gary RV Roamer said:
Yes, a TT would be more suitable to that truck.
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...I'll bet the travel trailer weighs about the same as the 5th wheel, ... I understand the 5th wheel is heavier weight on the truck,

but  as far as the breaking weight is concerned... how is  a  t/t  better for that 1/2 ton pickup ?

 
Frizlefrak said:
.

Until a wire gets pinched, grounds, and blows the fuse.  Now you have ZERO trailer brakes.  This will happen at the most inopportune time....like coming down a long, twisty 10% grade with nowhere to pull off.  Yes, it CAN happen....and if it does, you need a truck substantial enough to keep the trailer under control.
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and that's one reason why a motorhome makes a safer recreational vehicle ......

in a motorhome a pinched electrical wire, or a blown fuse.... is a lot less likely to kill you and your family... ;)
 
TonyDtorch said:
and that's one reason why a motorhome makes a safer recreational vehicle ......

in a motorhome a pinched electrical wire, or a blown fuse.... is a lot less likely to kill you and your family... ;)
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Pffft.....I have a Cummins.  The engine brake alone will stop a hurricane.  :p
 
...I'll bet the travel trailer weighs about the same as the 5th wheel, ... I understand the 5th wheel is heavier weight on the truck,

but  as far as the breaking weight is concerned... how is  a  t/t  better for that 1/2 ton pickup ?
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It's not. It's just the hitch loading that is different.
 
TonyDtorch said:
...I'll bet the travel trailer weighs about the same as the 5th wheel, ..
but  as far as the breaking weight is concerned... how is  a  t/t  better for that 1/2 ton pickup ?
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I'd take that bet. He can get a TT in the same model lineup as his 5th wheel that is the same length, almost the same layout--other than mid kitchen--yet is lighter in actual weight, and much less on hitch weight. But I'm sure there are others from different manufactures that could be even lighter.

In addition, that is if he stayed with the same size trailer. Indeed I meant going with a slightly smaller TT than his chosen 5th wheel. Even the smallest 5th wheel is too much hitch weight for that truck in my opinion.




Mike
 
Just an update. I took the trailer back to the dealer. The truck, trailer, and wife is under weight in all aspects, front axle, rear axle, payload, and combined weight. Because of that he refused to take it back, or give me credit on a different trailer.
 
Jimdamedic said:
Just an update. I took the trailer back to the dealer. The truck, trailer, and wife is under weight in all aspects, front axle, rear axle, payload, and combined weight. Because of that he refused to take it back, or give me credit on a different trailer.
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Assuming your max tow weight on your truck of 8600 lbs and payload is 1450 as you stated, he's wrong.  Even if you have the 3.92 gears which would increase your tow rating to 10,150 lbs, they payload remains at 1450. That trailer grosses at 10,000 lbs, and being a fiver, it would likely have a pin weight of between 2000 & 2500 lbs.  How does he figure?  If he's using dry weight, he's either a liar or a moron.  I suspect the first.  Email him the link to this thread.....

http://www.keystonerv.com/previous-years?brand=Cougar%20XLite&year=2015
 
According to that link, the trailer grosses at 7100 and change. Again, he's not lying about the weight. He took me to a certified scale not owned by him and the trailer with the truck is under weight in all respects. The only question is if it is far enough under to be safe. Gone consensus on the board is that it is not. I get that fact.
 
Because of that he refused to take it back, or give me credit on a different trailer.
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About what I expected from him.  He is probably basing that on the shipping weight and corresponding "dry" pin weight. That might put the trailer barely within the truck payload capacity with just you & the wife on board. You probably are ok on combined weight and even the truck GVWR, but will overload the truck rear axle once you put much of anything in that trailer. The pin weight will skyrocket as you load, since nearly every pound you add goes forward of the trailer axles.

Did you have actual scaled weights in hand for this discussion? Without them, you had no ammunition for your gun.

This is a very fuzzy area of civil law and advertising that RV manufacturers have exploited before. Are you entitled to believe that you can actually use the RV's entire GVWR? Or can they say, well, it was OK when we delivered it to you (empty), so it is YOU who caused the problem.
 
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