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Author Topic: NewEgg  (Read 10634 times)

Smoky

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NewEgg
« on: April 27, 2005, 04:12:11 PM »
Has anyone here ever ordered from Newegg?  They have a Garmin gps (2620) I want for $809 plus shipping and no sales tax.  Best Buy sells the same one for $1155 including tax.  I'd like to work up enough nerve to order from Newegg.

The only reason I would want to return the unit would be if it was defective.  Newegg only allows replacement by the same item on this type of item.

I tried one from Best Buy and I loved it.  But I took it back today (bought it yesterday) because the AC adapter was missing a prong.
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
where the fish get bigger
the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
Toad - Taurus wagon w/ axle lock
On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

Ron

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2005, 04:27:20 PM »
Since Bronco One in Phx has closed I don't really have a recommendation for purchasing a Garmin.  Phil has a place so maybe he will jump in here with his recommendation.

Biggest reason I cannot recommend the 2620 is I want to be able to upload maps besides the very lacking City Nav.  I use Metroguide when City Nav has no clue where the roads are. I also load Topo maps.  I want to be able to do this to meet my requirements not somebody at Garmins idea of what they think I need.
2610 with a 1 or 2 GB flash card does just fine.

Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2005, 04:29:32 PM »
Smoky

You could ask Best Buy if they'll match the price. I had an outsanding price on a marine GPS chartplotter at WMP by asking them if they'd match an internet price. They said "provided you can print the web page".
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BernieD

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2005, 05:19:38 PM »
Smoky

I haven't ordered from Newegg but they have a very good rating within the online buying networks. For someone else, I got a price of $587.99, after a $75 rebate on the 2610 and including shipping and sales tax from GPSexplorer.com. They have a 5 star seller's rating, like Newegg. The 2620 was $855.99 before $90 rebate.

For the $193 difference, I'd go for the 2610 and get a 1GB CF card and still be $150 ahead.
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

Ned

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2005, 05:30:18 PM »
I have bought from Newegg several times.  The orders were completed promptly and shipped when promised, usually the same or next day.  I found their prices to be competitive, but price is everything.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Terry A. Brewer

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 07:57:47 PM »
Smokey

I have bought from Newegg & have had no problems....However I have bought all my GPS equip  for years from TVNAV.com & highly recommend them.


Terry
At Monument Valley, AZ

Smoky

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2005, 03:59:58 PM »
Ron:

Believe it or not, there is plenty of room to upload additional maps on the 2620.  That is one of their big selling points.  Not only does it have all the US basic and metro installed, there is plenty of room left for anything additional you wish to upload.  That is one of the reasons they supply the usb cable.

Tom:

Our local Best Buys all have fine print wording in their price guarantee that they only match local pricing.  I tried to get them to look at NewEgg but as soon as they realized it is California based, they said no.

Thanks all for the good words on NewEgg.  I returned the 2620 today to Best Buy and will order from them instead.
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
where the fish get bigger
the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
Toad - Taurus wagon w/ axle lock
On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

Ron

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2005, 05:58:08 PM »
Smoky,

I still think solid state memory shopuld be more reliable than a rotating micro drive.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2005, 09:03:23 PM »
Smoky,

I still think solid state memory shopuld be more reliable than a rotating micro drive.

I agree 100% Ron, but you know that comment will set Ned off again on his speech about how reliable HDs are (g).
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Ron

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2005, 09:16:51 PM »
Smoky,

I still think solid state memory shopuld be more reliable than a rotating micro drive.

I agree 100% Ron, but you know that comment will set Ned off again on his speech about how reliable HDs are (g).

HD reliability has greatly improved but so has solid state memory.  I chose the flash card over the HD.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Ned

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2005, 09:20:04 PM »
Hard drives have MTBFs of 100,000 hours or more and flash memory has a limit of how many write cycles it will take.  I suspect either will outlive all of us :)
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2005, 10:15:32 PM »
I've yet to see a HD last 100K hours with the kind of treatment I give it. What's the source for that claim? Since it's a prediction based on calculation, any statement of MTBF has to be qualified with some parameters and a confidence level. One of the oldest tricks is to use a lower CL to be able to quote a higher MTBF, and put the low CL in small print. Another is to use parameters that don't represent real life.

But I always get a chuckle when you quote the number  ;D
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Ned

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2005, 10:50:53 PM »
How many hard drives have you known to fail in normal use?  I have never had a drive fail in use, but I have had out of box failures.  Those were about 30 years ago.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Ron

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2005, 11:19:29 PM »
How many hard drives have you known to fail in normal use?  I have never had a drive fail in use, but I have had out of box failures.  Those were about 30 years ago.
Two HD failures just last year on two different computers. :(  Glad I had a backup. :D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2005, 11:30:59 PM by Ron »
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2005, 11:24:15 PM »
How many hard drives have you known to fail in normal use?

I've lost count. What was the source of the 100K hours data?
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2005, 03:48:52 AM »
I've had two disk drive failures in about 5-6 years; my daughter had one (but that probaly diid have 100 k hours on it) and my BIL had one as well.

The major drive manufacturers all quote a 100k hour MTBF and have for years but I've never seen any details.   Don't know if it applies to microdrives.  And they never show the shape of the bell curve either!  For all we know it could well be a low rectangle with failures equally distributed over time.

I've bought from Newegg in the past 6 monhs and have been entirely satisifed.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 03:53:14 AM by RV Roamer »
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
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Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2005, 05:58:27 AM »
And they never show the shape of the bell curve either! For all we know it could well be a low rectangle with failures equally distributed over time.

Kinda like saying the mean life of males in the USA is x years.
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Karl

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2005, 06:38:19 AM »
I have had HD failures, and they were always on units manufactred by - well, I can't mention the name, but it sounds like MAXTOR. Some units run much hotter than others, and that shortens the MTBF. Adequate cooling is essential. Also, frequent power-up/power-down shortens their life.
Karl (Cheesehead) Kolbus   Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy cow ...what a ride!"

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2005, 06:59:06 AM »
Some units run much hotter than others, and that shortens the MTBF. Adequate cooling is essential. Also, frequent power-up/power-down shortens their life.

Those are examples of the parameters that need to accompany any claim of MTBF. Most reliability models show that MTBF decreases exponentially with temperature.
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Ned

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2005, 08:44:41 AM »
Most hard drives don't die, they're killed, usually by insufficient cooling.  When installed properly and kept at the proper temperature, they will run nearly forever.  Another major contributor in my experience, is powering off and on frequently.  This will shorten the life of any electronic component, moving parts or not.  I run my computers 24x7 and have had only one drive go bad in over 20 years.  That one was in a notebook that was about 10 years old and spent about 4 years bouncing on the dash of the motor home.  That drive probably had >65,000 hours on it and was made before the current models with the 100,000+ hour MTBF.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Ron

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2005, 09:05:41 AM »
I also remember about a year ago, maybe longer, on one of the photo forums there was a discussion on microdrive failures and the general concenseous was that it would be better reliability to switch to flash cards and suffer the loss of storage.  Flash cards then were much more expensive and I don't recall any with more than 256MB being available.  These were digital cameras the storage was being used in. 
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2005, 10:29:48 AM »
Most hard drives don't die, they're killed, usually by insufficient cooling.

Either way, the result is the same. Since this discussion of HDs started when discussing GPS units, I can definitely say that I don't take steps to ensure that my GPS is kept cool. On the contrary, it usually sits on the dash in direct sunlight. If I stop and leave the car, I don't always turn off the GPS or move it from the dash. In any event, the temperature inside the car rises considerably in the typical California sun. I doubt very much that any MTBF claims are made  under those "real usage" conditions.

Last night I looked briefly at the specs of a couple of HDs from a large manufacturer. No claims of a specific MTBF, just "our product is reliable", which is, at best, marketing hype. I'm still curious to read the source for the 100K number.

FWIW the temperature-related discussion above and in my earlier message would apply equally to Flash products. My issue with a HD is that it's more likely to be damaged by physical abuse than solid state memory.
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Smoky

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2005, 10:39:55 AM »
Good Lord what kind of a debate did I start here?   ;D

Ron:

Here is my concern.  The 2610 only comes stock with a 128 meg card.  Is that enough to get all the maps installed?  I want to be able to calculate routes anywhere in the USA without having to upload and overwrite map data.  I want it all right there, so I can be anywhere, and still calculate routing from anywhere to anywhere.

The 2620 has 500 megs of blank disk, 4 times what is on the flash card.  That is blank disk not counting the rest of the disk occupied by the maps. Did you buy a bigger flash card and if so for how much and for what size?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 10:42:33 AM by Smoky »
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
where the fish get bigger
the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
Toad - Taurus wagon w/ axle lock
On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

Ned

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2005, 10:51:13 AM »
Last night I looked briefly at the specs of a couple of HDs from a large manufacturer. No claims of a specific MTBF, just "our product is reliable", which is, at best, marketing hype. I'm still curious to read the source for the 100K number.

It seems that my data is out of date.  See http://faq.storagereview.com/tiki-index.php?page=MTBF for a discussion of MTBF and see that the numbers are now 1.2 Million hours for SCSI drives and the last paragraph reads:

"MTBF should be regarded as a minimum statement of reliability by the manufacturer. These days, no manufacturer will spec an enterprise-class drive below 1.2 million hours. Likewise, no firm will bother with MTBF less than 400,000 for a desktop-class disk. It is this consistency, rather than the spec's lack of meaning, that allows one to gloss over these claims."

The MTBF values are now so high (and drives so reliable) that the numbers aren't of any real value.  The drives, if not abused, will outlive all of us.

For a typical Seagate drive see http://www.seagate.com/cda/newsinfo/newsroom/releases/article/0,1121,2000,00.html.

For a large list of currently available drive with MTBF listed for many see http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/hdisk.htm.

All of this was found with Google searches on MTBF, MTBF Seagate, and MTBF Maxtor.

Want more? ;)

-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Smoky

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2005, 10:55:09 AM »
Ned:

Very interesting.

What about the kind of micro drive in a GPS and also how would the hot conditions Tom describes affect the ratings?
Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
where the fish get bigger
the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
Toad - Taurus wagon w/ axle lock
On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

BernieD

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2005, 10:59:50 AM »
Good Lord what kind of a debate did I start here?   ;D

Ron:

Here is my concern.  The 2610 only comes stock with a 128 meg card.  Is that enough to get all the maps installed?  I want to be able to calculate routes anywhere in the USA without having to upload and overwrite map data.  I want it all right there, so I can be anywhere, and still calculate routing from anywhere to anywhere.

Smoky

No, the 128 card is not large enough to get all the maps installed, neither is the 1 GB card. However, stop and listen for a minute. You do not do the route calculating on the GPS with the 2610. The 2610 loads the full mapset on your computer and you can plan routes on the computer to your heart's content. When you use the 2610, it knows where you are and plans your route to where you tell it you want to go via the via points you want on the way. At that point, you should have done all your "planning' already. I do not upload any routes to the 2610 at any time. I have a couple of smaller cards with specialized mapsets on them but I haven't had to redo the 1GB card since last June when we had spent 2 months east of the Mississippi.

Quote
The 2620 has 500 megs of blank disk, 4 times what is on the flash card.  That is blank disk not counting the rest of the disk occupied by the maps. Did you buy a bigger flash card and if so for how much and for what size?

Fry's Electronics frequently has a 1GB card on sale for $50-60 after rebate, I have 2 plus assorted 128 and 256 sizes. Luckily, my camera uses the same cards so I can interchange as needed.
Bernie & Marlene Dobrin
Home is Goodyear, AZ
Missing our Travel Supreme

Ned

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2005, 11:10:56 AM »
What about the kind of micro drive in a GPS and also how would the hot conditions Tom describes affect the ratings?

I would expect those conditions to shorten the life somewhat, so the drive may only outlive me by a few years instead of 100 or so.  The drive is also easily replaceable as it's a standard 1.8" (or is 2.5"?) drive.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
1997 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE
2007 GMC Canyon

Ron

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2005, 11:20:21 AM »
Smoky,

True the 2610 comes with a 128mb flash card.  However in my case I purchased a 1 GB card for about 40-50 bucks on sale at Fry's.  I find the 1 GB card holds all the maps I normally use during our travels this includes mapsource 4.01 and Topo maps for areas we off road in. I do include routing when I upload maps because I don't plan trips on the computer.  I like to be ready to change direction if we decide to while driving.   When we went through Jerry's personal Fry's store in LV I noticed they had 2 GB cards for about the same price as I paid for my 1 BG a year earlier.  With two GB you could probably load the whole country with all three maps with routing.

Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Smoky

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2005, 12:08:22 PM »
Well dunno.  I played with the 2620 for 2 days after "borrowing it" from Best Buy.  I had no trouble doing routes right on it.  In fact I enjoyed comparing what it came up with vs DeLorme. 

Then (as Bernie described) I added vias to get it to match DeLorme.  All through the process I kept joyfully thanking myself I did not have to upload any map data, no matter what origins and destinations I selected.  I think Street Atlas has spoiled me that way.    Maybe after I have fulltimed for a few years I will settle down to some favorite areas that will fit on a card.  But right now everything is shiny and new to me and I just love plotting routes every time one of you mentions a new place.  This morning I have been plotting routes to Peg Leg for example.  :D

For now, I think hard drive is best for me.  In a few years I might switch over to a new GPS with flash memory.  I had my fill of flash memory though a few years ago both with land based and nautical GPSes.  I found them a PITA.

I will say, whether a 2610 or 2620, that GPS design is fabulous.  My current plan is to use Delorme on my laptop for route planning only.  Then put away the laptop when we fire up the pusher, and do all live navigating by Garmin.  It takes up so little room and I won't have to install a mount for a laptop. 

I especially love the way it keeps recalculating routes automatically when I deviate from the original route.  I found I did not miss voice command at all.  I think that is because the interface is so well designed, you seldom have to tell it to do anything at all.  It gets me back on track without my command,  it zooms in right when it makes sense.  And if I set the tabs right, I always have next turn info and ETA and things like that whenever I need them.  And if I simply have to tell it something, in one day I already learned to use the remote control "by feel". 

And the GPS voice is excellent. I think it is cool how they integrated the speaker to the cigarette lighter adapter.

BTW has anyone figured out a way to get audio output from the Garmin fed to another device?  Not sure it is necessary as the speaker is plenty loud, but just curious in case background noise gets very high.  I like to play music while I a running down the road and it might be cool to feed the Garmin audio into my entertainment center.

This must be about the best automotive GPS on the market.

Smoky S  Ham radio - W3PY

The magic of a campfire
where the fish get bigger
the mountains get higher
the hike was uphill both ways
and new friends become old friends

2005 KSDP3910 Newmar Kountry Star
Toad - Taurus wagon w/ axle lock
On our way to the Poudre River in Colorado for the summer!

Tom

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Re: NewEgg
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2005, 12:10:49 PM »
LOL Ned, all I needed was the source for your 100K hours. I'll analyze your new referenced data later, but experience reported here on the forum in the last couple of days doesn't support 1.2M hours. I'll give you a lesson in reliability calculations and the myths of statistics in Moab if you'd like  ;D
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