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Carterc1978

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Posts
16
Location
Roy, Ut
I just bought my first trailer. I settled on a 2008 Thor Wave 26RLS and plan to start living in it fulltime in the next 6 months in the backwoods of the west.  Just turning 37 years old and plan on "enjoying" my life on the road with me and my dog!  Im looking at buying a generator to supply power for the ac and microwave. Currently thinking about the Honda 2000 or the Yamaha for their reported sound output and fuel efficiency.  What are your thoughts on these gensets? Also, can anyone tell me if 1 will run the ac or will I need to plan on buying the companion?  If one won't cut it, is this set up with the companion the best way to go or does anyone have suggestions for a set up that will work just as well but for a lower cost?

Im trying to figure out an inverter set up that I already touched on on another post for running a tv and dvd.  I was planning on a portable solar panel to maintain my 2 6volt batteries. But what are your thoughts? If I am already planning on a generator (that could obviously be used for battery charging),  is there really a reason to spend the extra money on solar?

Excited to get on with a new phase of my life but trying to make sure im set up comfortably enough not to get discouraged when I get out there!
 
Inverters: FIRST Go with a True Sine Wave.. do not even think about an MSW for TV use.
Second: Televisions (And possible sat receiver) Modern types will never overload a True Sine inverter.. They do not make them small enough to worry about the effect of a TV (Generally less than 100 watts) and Sat receiver (half that) (Smalles TSW inverters are aroudn 300 watt)

If you want to power the microwave you weill need at least 1500 watt.. i'd go 2K (2,000) just to be safe.

Genrator.. A pair of Honda 2000i with parallel kit or better yet make one a "Companion" model (Bit more expensive but the parallel cable is cheaper).  One can run most of the RV but for the A/C you relly need the 2nd in parallel.
 
You didnt mention the onboard charger in your rv.  If it is not a good three or four stage charger, I would swap it out for one.  For a generator, I would get a Yamaha 2400 or a Honda 3000.  For an inverter, I would not go more than 1000 watts, 600 should be adequate, because if you need more watts than 600, you would be better off running the generator for those loads. Also, I would recommend some solar, if not enough to run everything but your ac, and microwave, I would at least get enough to top off your batteries, as using the generator to top off your batteries, is very inefficient.
 
Great suggestions! I just spent some time at Camping World looking at inverters and I guess theyre not as expensive as I originally thought. I think going with one in the 600 to 1000 watt range would be doable. Now I consider myself to be pretty handy,  but dealing with electrical is an area where I definitely lack. Is a self install achievable with the instructions and maybe some Youtube videos? Thoughts?

I didnt mention the battery charger because quite frankly Im not sure where to look and not sure how to tell the difference. Help??

When trailer shopping, I had someone point me in the direction of a portable "suitcase" solar panel in the neighborhood of $300-$500. I liked the idea because whenever possible I would like to be parking in the shade.  Anyone have any experience with these? Any idea on brands and number of watts to meet my needs?
 
A single 2KW generator will not only not run your A/C, but if your batteries are at all low, you may have to turn off the circuit breaker for the converter in order to be able to run the microwave.

As for TSW vs MSW inverters, the cost / performance trade off is not always clear. Mine is MSW, and I run a microwave, two different TVs and a sat re4ceiver (not all at the same time) with no problem. On the other hand, I destroyed an electric heater with digital controls just by having it plugged in when I turned on the inverter.
Some automatic coffee makes have the same problem.

Joel
 
If your plan is to park your RV in the shade whenever possible (a reasonable plan), portable solar panels would be a better idea than roof-mounted panels. Solar panels produce significantly less power when they're shaded, so being able to keep your panels in the sun will make a noticeable difference. Solar "kits" are sometimes packaged with components you may not need, so be careful when buying them. Sizing a solar system so that it meets your expectations takes a bit of figuring (battery-bank size, average consumption etc.) If you want to discuss that, just ask.

I'd second Paul's recommendation to get a good three or four stage charger. They really help your batteries live longer. If you're going to be boondocking much, I'd also recommend getting a good battery monitor - as opposed to the simple volt meters that are typically found in RVs. Another forum member once said, "Boondocking without a good battery monitor is like driving without a gas gauge." and I agree. Bogart Engineering makes a good one - the Trimetric RV-2030, but there are others as well.

Kev
 
Paul & Ann said:
You didnt mention the onboard charger in your rv.  If it is not a good three or four stage charger, I would swap it out for one.  For a generator, I would get a Yamaha 2400 or a Honda 3000.  For an inverter, I would not go more than 1000 watts, 600 should be adequate, because if you need more watts than 600, you would be better off running the generator for those loads. Also, I would recommend some solar, if not enough to run everything but your ac, and microwave, I would at least get enough to top off your batteries, as using the generator to top off your batteries, is very inefficient.
The problem with a Honda 3000 is the weight.  Almost more than 1 person can handle.  Two Honda 2000 are easier to handle and cost about the same as one 3000.
 
I have been using portable solar for years. It's wonderful for the power it puts out and the flexibility in positioning  compared to a flat mounted system. There are downsides in hassle and vulnerability so you do have to balance the pluses and minuses.  They don't have to be tiny, my portables have been 230w, 490w and this year I used a 750w system portable testing it before it is installed.

The portable kits are inexpensive and easy, a good way to get your feet wet in solar and sadly quite possible a way to find out what you really would like to do. Most come with shorter, thinner wiring from the panels, a controller with few adjustments and it's probably mounted on the panels. By the time you replace the thin wire to avoid voltage drop and get a decent controller, you have a expensive set of panels.

One thing I have been kicking around is mounting our last portable to the rack of the truck after the big system is mounted on the trailer. The mount on the truck can be tilted or let the panel be taken off and used as a portable. That way the portable provides charging on the road, is secure as the roof mounted panels and the truck can park in the sun while the trailer is shaded. With it our total system is 970w and we don't take a generator, not even for AC.
 
Its just gonna be me and my dog and I do have a back that tends to go out without warning, so im leaning towards the Honda and companion at this point.

I found my manual for my converter and it says, "The WFCO series 3-stage switch mode power converters are fully automatic." Im guessing this tells me I have a 3 stage charger. Correct??

As far as solar panels and required wattage, Im leaning towards a 2000 watt inverter and picture myself using a 28" led tv and dvd (2hrs a day), toaster (5 min), vacuum (20 mins), charging a razor (4hrs a week) and running the fridge all day everyday (if thats possible off the inverter).  I have 2 brand new 6 volts batteries. On the tag they say 75 amp rating 120 min. So with that kind of usage, how many watts so I need to be planning on with my portable solar panels?
 
In the interest of trying to save you some money, do you have any idea how much boondocking you'll be doing vs. hooked up to shore-power?

When boondocking, it makes a lot more sense to run your fridge off propane than to power it with AC power from an inverter. Propane fridges still use a small amount of 12 volt (DC) power when they're running off propane, but they're very efficient propane consumers. Using an inverter to power them draws a LOT of DC power and can drain your batteries relatively fast. And don't forget that inverters themselves are electrical consumers - the larger the inverter, the more power it consumes - and they're not 100% efficient. Our inverter is pretty modern and it's only about 85% efficient, so you'll want to be able to turn it off whenever it isn't being used to power something.

Boondocking has some required skillsets if you want to extend your off-grid time as much as possible. For example, If I only had two batteries, I would wait to charge my shaver and run my AC vacuum cleaner until I was running my generator to charge my batteries. Those needs could all be met at the same time, with generator power. By the way, are you saying that each of your batteries has a 75 amp hour (AH) capacity?

Kev
 
Planning on boondocking exclusively. That is unless when I find a job it makes more sense to be closer to civilization and hooked up.

Yes. Each battery says 75 amp rating.

Good ideas on the charger and vacuum. That wouldnt be a big deal at all to knock out a few of those things while the genset is on. Makes sense with the fridge running on the propane too. How about a general guess on how long 14 gals of propane would last with fridge and water heater use for one person?

I guess my energy needs from the batteries and inverter are more or less talking about the tv and dvd player for a couple hours each night
 
Okay, that info helps - then here's what I would recommend... First, I would strongly recommend that you get at least two additional batteries, of the same kind you have now, or replace the two you just bought with batteries that have more amp hour (AH) capacity. 75 AHs is not a lot of capacity for extended boondocking - especially when you consider that you can only use half of your battery-bank's capacity. You can draw your batteries down to about 50% before they start having problems powering things. (Sorry, I know that's something no one wants to hear.) Keeping your cell phone charged, and maybe a laptop, watching TV a few hours a day, running some lights as well as existing "dummy loads will deplete your battery bank pretty quickly.

I would also consider getting a smaller inverter. A 2000 watt inverter is probably overkill for what you said you want to do, and it will draw more power than a smaller inverter. A smaller inverter will allow you to power a lot of what you said you want to power, but it won't tax your battery-bank quite as much. The difference might not be much, but when boondocking, we'll take what we can get. Things like toasters and microwave ovens draw a lot of power and I don't think a 2000 watt inverter that's being used to power a microwave will even work with your current sized battery-bank. I think the inverter will shut down. Inverters should be sized to the AH capacity of a battery-bank - bigger inverters go with bigger battery-banks and vice-versa.

Some other ideas - replace your incandescent bulbs with LEDs. Take some time and review LED options (color spectrum, brightness, brand-quality etc.). LEDs consume about 1/8 to 1/10th the power of most RV incandescent bulbs, which can be significant if you leave lights on. RVLED.com  http://www.rvledbulbs.com/ is a sponsor of this website and they give forum members a discount. They've got high quality LEDs and they stand behind their products. If you haven't bought a flat screen TV yet, consider buying a 12 volt flat screen. You can find them up to 32 inches in size and some have built-in DVD players. I don't know if any have built in Blu-Ray players, but I don't know how important that is to you. 12 volt TVs cost a bit more than 120 volt AC TVs, but they don't require you to have an inverter on to power them. They run directly off your 12 volt system.

You should also know that RVs have a surprising amount of electrical draw from things that aren't even turned on - microwave ovens, entertainment centers, etc. all consume power - even though they're turned off. There are devices like propane detectors, CO detectors, etc. that are always consuming power as well. It's not unusual for parasitic and dummy loads to consume 25% or more of a typical RV's battery power, which is why it's so important to have an adequately sized battery-bank for boondocking.

Kev
 
I mounted two of my solar panels on the side of my coach and one panel on the roof. If the side with the panels is toward the sun the two panels can remain in place and tilted if needed. Otherwise I can remove them and set them in the sun using an extension cable. Here's a link for a slide show of my install:

http://s1095.photobucket.com/user/tomzpix/slideshow/Solar%20Slide%20Show

I have a 300 watt pure sine wave inverter and this works well for most of my needs. If I need more juice I fire up the generator.
 
I always hear that about modified sinewave inverters, buy a true sinewave. In my personal experience this is not true. I'm a retired truck driver and have been using Cobra modified sinewave inverters over 20 years. I never had anything burn up as a result. That includes tvs, laptops, dorm fridges, microwaves or any fine electronics. The USA power grid operates on 60 hertz but it too has variance. You can go to other countries that operate on 50 hertz and still use your electronics safely with an adapter. A pure sinewave inverter is more accurate than our own power grid as far as hertz go. The only noticeable difference with a modified sinewave is digital clocks that rely on hertz counting to keep accurate time... 60 hertz... 60 seconds... 60 minutes, you got the picture. Use a battery analog clock if you need one. Being retired I don't care for a clock, lol.

A little inverter info... you need an inverter twice the size of your microwave. A 700 watt microwave you need a 1500 watt inverter. A 800 or 1000 watt microwave and you need a 2000 watt inverter, etc. Microwaves and coffee makers are your biggest wattage hogs.
I think energy efficiency isn't part of the RV industry yet. They design things to plug into a RV park or use your generator/propane.

I favored a Cobra CPI2500. All the power one man and a dog needs. Grant it my last 5 years driving I had an APU to keep my batteries charged and heat and AC but there are many battery charging options today. Before my APU I relied solely on the truck engine to recharge my batteries. The inverter will set off an alarm at 11.5v and will shut itself off at 10.5v. The truck had a similar low voltage shutdown always leaving me enough juice to start the engine.
With every charging means shutdown and 4 truck batteries I could run my tv, DVD player, laptop and fridge 8-10 hours before an alarm went off. You probably won't use this in a travel trailer but it gives you ideas where you stand.
My dorm fridge with a separate freezer took 150 watts to start the compressor and cruised on 70 watts. It only ran 5 minutes every 20-30 minutes. A 32" tv will use about 170 watts. You can go to the  Cobra website and they have a pdf of various equipment and their wattages. The bigger Cobras have a digital voltage and wattage usage display. You can even buy a remote on/off switch for it that you can mount on a wall. Amazon is a good place to buy one. Some of the chain truck stops have good sales on Cobras. I'd say 90% of truckers that have inverters has a Cobra. That says a lot right there.

I have one RV friend with 2 golf cart batteries and a 150 watt solar panel. His wife is disabled and stays in the RV all day watching TV and running a 5000 btu window AC.
You can buy a 5000 btu that uses 480 watts to start up and cruises on less. Many RV manufacturers are starting to use through the wall units for their energy efficiency. They box them inside so only an inch or two sticks outside and doesn't look tacky.

When you install an inverter keep your cable feeds to your battery bank under 6'. 4' and under is ideal to prevent a voltage drop to your inverter. Coming out of the inverter you are okay with reasonable wire runs. Always ground the inverter chassis to the vehicle chassis. Use the right size copper strand cable to feed your inverter. It should be the same size as the mount holes in the inverter. Smaller than the hole? You're messing up. Most inverters of size use 2/0 or 4/0 cable. Also they now make inline inverter circuit breakers you install by your battery connection. Use one! It will prevent any short or fire. I can't stress enough the number one cause of inverter fires from a poor installation. If your feed cables go through any metal hole like a metal wall or floor or even the frame... Make sure you protect that hole with a rubber grommet and silicone. This will prevent rubbing a hole in the cable insulation. Your RV flexes and vibrates traveling down the road.
 
There are still a few electronic devices that often don't work well on MSW inverters, but it's hardly the case that things will burn up everywhere.  My coach has a 2500W MSW inverter and tvs and such get along fine. But these days the price differential isn't all that great, so why not go with pure sine and have no worries at all?

Circuit board designers trying for the cheapest possible device are most often the culprit. They may outright fail (internal overload & overheat). Some others simply don't work well, thing that try to count Hertz may not count correctly if they did not design to accommodate a MSW (square) wave power source.

A few of things that still seems to have MSW compatibility problems include:
1. Cheap digital timers, e.g. lighting timers. Many (not all) suffer enough to fail after a few days or weeks of use. Or they get the time wrong (see clocks).
2. Some Led night lights don't last long
3. A  few rechargeable tools or gadgets will overheat their charger (pretty rare nowadays, but used to be a common problem).
4. Electric blankets & heating may self-destruct or heat improperly, so beware. There are brands that work ok, but they aren't the inexpensive models.
5. Some brands of coffee makers that have built-in timers will self-destruct. Hint: Mr Coffee designs for proper MSW operation
6. Clocks often keep the wrong time, and some digital models may not light up their display.

 
We have a industrial Tripp-lite MSW inverter and some things run different on it than our PowerBright CW150 MSW inverter. What runs hot on the Powerbright is normal on the Tripp-lite. The Tv that has lines in it on the Powerbright is as clear as at home on the Tripp-lite.

So not all MSW inverters are created equal it seems and just because a inverter is PSW doesn't mean it is a quality unit either. We had one last one season and we never loaded it with even half what it was rated for.

I read a review of a fanless 150w MSW inverter that cost under $20 shipped that the poster claimed didn't get his phone chargers hot. The smallest PSW unit I've found is a Aims 180w but you can find a no name 300w PSW for $69.

Personally in the buy once, buy the best concept I would go for a Morningstar PSW, 300w fanless inverter for the small stuff.
 
Lots and lots of good information!

Im gonna back up and ask one question. Right now im leaning towards a Honda 2000 and the companion. Is the price worth it for the fuel efficieny, sound (or lack there of) and light weight (for my bad back) or would i be just as happy with a lower cost set up?

Pretty sure this will be my first purchase in the power department and then might take the time to figure out my needs from there.
 
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Honda or Yamaha generators. You'll have to look far and wide to find people who will complain about them (except their price). They're durable and fuel efficient, and while there is no such thing as a "quiet generator," they're as quiet as they come.

Kev
 
Kevin Means said:
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Honda or Yamaha generators. You'll have to look far and wide to find people who will complain about them (except their price). They're durable and fuel efficient, and while there is no such thing as a "quiet generator," they're as quiet as they come.

Kev

I have a Yamaha and love it. It has some of features the Honda does not have. It has a fuel gauge, a fuel shut off and cables for charging a battery. The cables are an accessory you need to buy on the Honda.
 
Kevin Means said:
Okay, that info helps - then here's what I would recommend... First, I would strongly recommend that you get at least two additional batteries, of the same kind you have now, or replace the two you just bought with batteries that have more amp hour (AH) capacity. 75 AHs is not a lot of capacity for extended boondocking - especially when you consider that you can only use half of your battery-bank's capacity. You can draw your batteries down to about 50% before they start having problems powering things.

I just wanted to note that these batteries are standard golf cart batteries and they are larger than you think.  A battery's capacity varies depending on how fast you draw current out of it.  Faster discharge rates give a lower amp-hour capacity.  Google "peukert factor" for more information.

75 amps at 120 minutes is the rating for standard GC2 golf cart battery, which these are, so there's no reason to replace them.  If you gave this battery the standard 20 hour Amp-hour drawdown test, it would have about 180 amp-hours capacity.

Using the 50% discharge safety factor gives about 90 amp-hours of useable capacity in RV use.
 

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