Newbie with Purchase Decisions

Hi All,

Hubbie & I are in our 50's, retired a couple of years ago and would like to travel more (2-3 weeks at a time, several times a year, all over US, lots of state/nat'l parks).  We have a little experience with RV'ing.  Looking at getting a new small truck (Toyota Tacoma/Chevy Colorado with towing pkg) and a 20-22 foot light TT either late model used or new.  Could anyone weigh in on the following:
1. Suggested weight limitation (we were thinking 5500# incl. gear) or other weight restrictions (the amount of info on this subject is dizzying)
2. Quality brands that have walk around queen or murphy bed, 73" interior height min, decent kitchen, small dinette (no sofa w/ table models), dbl axle, good insulation (up to $30K)
3. Will we have problems towing with this combination of TV and TT?
4. What mechanical/exterior things should we look for?
5. We live in Michigan.  Can TT be stored outdoors in winter here?

Thanks for the help!!

AK

Welcome to the Forum!

I am far from the trailer expert being a motorhome type person but there are plenty here who are and I feel sure they will arrive shortly to help.

Glad to have you with us!

Kim

(p.s. our first trip to Michigan ever this year - what a grand place!)

Thanks, Kim.  And *you* live in NM--one of my favorite states of all time.  We spend a lot of time in the SW as in-laws live in Tucson.

Anne,

Full disclosure - we are full time for the last five plus years - we spend at least two months a year in New Mexico. We spent two months this summer in "your" state, Traverse City and Petoskey, and had an amazing time! Looks like there is plenty of room for all us! So much to see, so little time!

Kim

p.s. Check this out, I am a shameless promoter! YNP 2016! We'd love to have ya!

20 foot TT might be fine for weekends, but extended travel you will run out of clothes storage really fast.  Not to mention dirty clothes, food, refer space.  IMHO you wont last long with that size.  Think a full sized 1500 series truck and 25 or so foot TT.  Besides a much better ride, improved towing capacity you can get a real bed, more storage

Donn is right!!  a 1500 / F150 can pull 50% more TT than a Colorado.

Let me try to explain the WEIGHT complex.  On the truck, you need to know GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), curb (empty) weight and GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) (loaded truck + loaded trailer).  Other numbers are usually meaningless.

For the trailer, you need GVWR, found on a label on the left front corner of the trailer.  This is the most a fully loaded camper can legally weigh.  The salesman will disagree,and tell you that is not realistic, and to use the dry weight.  HE LIES!! Nobody goes camping in an empty, dry weight camper!  At some point the TT will approach that max weight!

Now the numbers games begin.  The manufacturers provide a "max trailer capacity", which is accurate if you only have one small person (driver) in the truck, and no cargo in the truck.  The truck Payload is a big number.  If you fill the truck to this level, there is no room for the trailer tongue weight.

I know you are just starting this process.  Normally I would say load up the truck as if you were ready to leave on a camping trip and get the truck weighed.  In your case, list everything you plan to carry in the truck, including passengers and pets.  Weigh everything and add it up.

Pick your favorite truck, and add this weight to the truck curb wt.  This must be less than truck  GVWR, hopefully 700 - 800 # less than the GVWR.  Now, take the truck GCVWR and subtract the estimated loaded truck weight.  This is the absolute maximum trailer weight you can legally pull with that truck.  **ALSO**  Take 10% of this trailer weight (tongue weight carried by the truck) and add it to your loaded truck weight.  This must also be below the truck GVWR.

Here is another way to do the same thing.

Take the weight of everything you plan to carry in the truck.  Add this to the truck curb weight.  This is Loaded Truck Weight (LTW)

LTW + 10% - 12% of trailer weight MUST be less than GVWR for the truck.
LTW + Trailer GVWR  MUST be less than truck GCVWR

If the numbers do not work, try a smaller trailer or a bigger truck.

I hope this helps!!

Grashley,

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this.  Your explanation makes so much more sense than the others I've read.  I appreciate it so much!!  I'll print this out and go over with my hubbie.

grashley said:

Donn is right!!  a 1500 / F150 can pull 50% more TT than a Colorado.

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Not 50% more. And not all 1500s or F150s will tow more than the new GM Colorados/Canyons. Here are the numbers based on the new SAE J2807 tow ratings:

2015/16 V6 Colorado/Canyon SAE J2807 tow rating is 7000. The new diesel is 7600.

2015 V6 Silverado SAE J2807
6100 to 7600 depending on configuration.

2015 V8 Silverado SAE J2807 tow ratings
6500 to 10,800 depending on configuration.

2015 V8 Sierra  SAE J2807 tow ratings
9200 to 10,800 depending on configuration.

2015 Ford F150 SAE J2807 tow ratings
7600 to 12,200 depending on configuration.

2015 Dodge Ram 1500 SAE J2807 tow ratings
4980 to 10650 depending on configuration.

2016 Toyota Tacoma SAE J2807 tow rating of 6800. 

The Colorado is surely capable of towing 5600, 80% of its rating.

Like I tell everyone don't get too hung up on the tow ratings you most likely never reach them. The fact is you have to remember those numbers are based on NO passengers, NO cargo, FULL tank of fuel and 153 pound driver. So now if your like me and have a passenger, pet, cargo in the truck then those weight MUST be subtracted from the towing capacity number. Very good example of it this photo.

Like most will say having too much truck is a good thing. Not having enough truck is dangerous.

Keep in mind my truck is stated to tow 13,250 pound and rated for gross combined weight of 20,000 pound but take notice I'm only 160 pounds from my GVWR of the truck.

Thank you, everyone, for helping me to understand this.  I have to agree that both of us will feel better with something like an F-150 going cross-country.  Problem is getting it into garage (necessary for MI winters) and price tag of the Ford.  I think we could do it if we bought a late-model used truck instead of new and rearrange things to fit it in.  So worth it for the peace of mind and realizing my goal of hitting every nat'l park in the lower 48 

You guys are great!!

Why doesnit have to be a Ford?  Not bashing, but Ford seems to be really proud of their vehicles.  Ram for one has better interiors and Ram dealers at least are ready and willing to deal.  If you dont mind flying, give Dave Smith motors in Kellogg,ID a call.  Being the worlds largest Ram dealer they make deals few others are able to match.

Annekem said:

So worth it for the peace of mind and realizing my goal of hitting every nat'l park in the lower 48 

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A very worthy goal. I have been there and done that. There are currently 47 National Parks in the lower 48 and they are all wonderful. I spent at least a week in each one. There are only 46 in the photo below since I have not been to Pinnacles NP since it opened after I stopped full timing a few years ago. Here is a list of my top ten:

Yosemite
Grand Canyon
Grand Tetons
Zion
Bryce Canyon
Yellowstone
Everglades
Channel Islands
Joshua Tree
North Cascades

Here are some photos from each park:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108464110929132780547/NationalParksOfAmerica?authuser=0&feat=directlink

FYI on new standardized tow ratings:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/no-go-for-standardized-tow-ratings.html

"All the unrealistic test weight practices of the past that led to asterisks and fine print have been eliminated. Maximum tow ratings can no longer be based on a stripped base-model truck with a 150-pound driver traveling alone. Test trucks must now be equipped with popular options found on 33 percent (or more) of the configuration being tested. The 150-pound test driver is now accompanied by a 150-pound passenger."

Rosebud3 said:

FYI on new standardized tow ratings:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/no-go-for-standardized-tow-ratings.html

"All the unrealistic test weight practices of the past that led to asterisks and fine print have been eliminated. Maximum tow ratings can no longer be based on a stripped base-model truck with a 150-pound driver traveling alone. Test trucks must now be equipped with popular options found on 33 percent (or more) of the configuration being tested. The 150-pound test driver is now accompanied by a 150-pound passenger."

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All of that is fine.  BUT  as long as they use 15% Pin Wt for 5th wheels, their numbers are nonsense.  Using a reasonable 22% pin wt, NO ? TON TRUCK OR ? TON DIESEL TRUCK CAN TOW A 10,000 5ER AND BE UNDER LEGAL WEIGHT LIMITS.  Run the numbers yourself.  Remember to include the hitch weight and reasonable passenger and cargo weight. 

Example: GMC 1500    5514 # curb wt  +  2200 # Pin wt  +  200 #  hitch  + 400 # passengers and a sandwich  =  8314 #.   
OR try this                  5514 # curb wt  + 1500 # Pin wt (15%)  +  200 #  hitch  + 400 # passengers and a sandwich  =  7614 #
Max GVWR is 7200 #  You are half a ton overloaded at 22% PIN WT. 
YOU ARE 400 # OVERLOADED EVEN AT 15% PIN WT!!!! 
You are 100 # overweight even with NO HITCH and required 150 # driver and passenger.

? ton and ? ton trucks do not pull as much 5er as you may think.  Get it weighed and be safe!!!

NOTE ALSO:  For several truck models, Payload + curb wt exceeded GVWR.  DO NOT TRUST MFG SPECS!!

Rosebud3:  By your specs, a Colorado PROPERLY EQUIPPED can handle no more than a 7000 # trailer. 
50 %  larger load is 10,500 #
EVERY TRUCK YOU MENTION, PROPERLY EQUIPPED,  EXCEPT SIVERADO V6 AND TACOMA EXCEEDED THIS WEIGHT.

WHERE'S THE BEEF?????

The Colorado will certainly pull a 5600# TT.  The point was the OP would probably be unhappy for a month in a TT that small.

grashley said:

Rosebud3:  By your specs, a Colorado PROPERLY EQUIPPED can handle no more than a 7000 # trailer. 
50 %  larger load is 10,500 #
EVERY TRUCK YOU MENTION, PROPERLY EQUIPPED,  EXCEPT SIVERADO V6 AND TACOMA EXCEEDED THIS WEIGHT.

WHERE'S THE BEEF?????

The Colorado will certainly pull a 5600# TT.  The point was the OP would probably be unhappy for a month in a TT that small.

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:-[ My apologies. I "registered" the 50% more as 14,000# and that number got stuck in my head. BUT I also wanted to point out that a person had to be careful which 1500 they bought because some actually had a tow rating lower than the Colorado.

Oh, and I was talking about bumper pulls not 5ers. The only thing I know about 5ers is they are a lot heavier and pricier than bumper pulls and I don't want one.

On my way to a local RV show this AM.

I've read every post at least twice and am trying not to get caught up with numbers too much at this point but I *will* do my homework when the time comes with regard to not overloading.  This discussion begs the question--what do you buy first:  TT or TV?  I have the luxury of making that call.

We hope to store our TT on our property when not using it and it can't be longer than 22-24 feet to fit in the turnaround.  (Maybe we'll end up storing it off-site, IDK.)  Plus, we're nervous about towing a long TT.  It just feels like 23' is the absolute longest length we and our budget can stomach.  I understand the point that a 22' TT doesn't give us much space to live in but what about the flexibility it provides?  Do you guys here really think we'll get over that fear quickly and start hating the limitations of something that size to the point where we would be delighted to store a larger unit?  How does anyone know when they start out?  I *do* know one thing:  we're not taking it on weekend trips--we want to make 2 week trips and possibly longer.  Couldn't we just store things in our "really large" 1/2 ton truck and get them out as we need them (without exceeding the GVWR of the TV of course 

You have to remember that a TT is measured from tip of the tongue to the rear bumper. that 23 ft trailer won't give much living space in side. Take some time and go sit in one for a couple hours and see how you feel.

what do you buy first:  TT or TV?

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Probably the trailer first because then you can get the appropriate tow vehicle for the weight you'll be hauling.  We've seen many people get their tow vehicle first and then find it's underpowered for what they want to tow.  Since you have the luxury of making that choice, find the trailer you like that will fit in the allotted space and then find a vehicle that can handle the towing.

ArdraF

92GA said:

You have to remember that a TT is measured from tip of the tongue to the rear bumper. that 23 ft trailer won't give much living space in side. Take some time and go sit in one for a couple hours and see how you feel.

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That's not necessarily true. There is no rhyme or reason how manufacturers do their model designations.  My trailer has a floor 28 1/2' long,  29' long from back wall to extreme forward part of front, 34 1/2' long from front of hitch to back of bumper. The model designation is 272RLIS. The best one can do is review the specs on the manufactur's website to see what you're getting.  Pay particular attention to tank sizes if not camping with full hook ups. Also the most aggravating thing for my wife and I is what to do with dirty laundry.  We usually camphost at a couple of nearby state parks,  so we're usually out for months at a time. I still work full time so laundry adds up quick. The biggest thing is make sure the floorplan will work for you. Sit on the toilet, stand in the shower/tub etc. to make sure your comfortable with the situations. Ensure whomever makes the bed is comfortable with how the mattress is situated between the wardrobes and/or nightstands. 

kdbgoat said:

92GA said:

You have to remember that a TT is measured from tip of the tongue to the rear bumper....

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That's not necessarily true. There is no rhyme or reason how manufacturers do their model designations.

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Usually some part of the numeric will give some indication of the trailer length, but how accurate & which part of the trailer is up in the air.  Gary's recent comment is my favorite:

Gary RV Roamer said:

Look folks, model numbers are arbitrary. They mean whatever the guy who assigned the number thought it should mean. There are no rules, nor even many conventions.  They model number might be Aunt Tillie's birth year + the marketing VP's initials.  Don't base any decisions on an arbitrary character string whose sole purpose in life is to designate a set of build instrutions at the factory and an entry in the sales catalog.

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In other words, like almost everything else in the RV industry... do as much of your own research as possible, especially over figures in a brochure or the "word" of a salesperson.