2014 Explorer and Forest River 23fbks

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ccsmith51

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Oct 18, 2015
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I have a 2014 Ford Explorer with AWD and the Tow Package.  The specs are a max of 5,000 pounds towing and 500 pounds tongue weight.

I am very interested in a 2015 Forest River 23fbks.  The manufacturer lists the GVWR at 5023, and the hitch weight at 623 pounds.

I have several questions:

1)  I assume that tongue load and hitch weight are the same?

2)  Is the hitch weight specified at GVWR or UVW?

3)  If GVWR then how do they know where the 868 pounds CCC will be located?

4)  If I put the 623 pounds on the hitch, is the problem structural with the hitch assembly and frame, or is it concern about towing characteristics?

5)  Does a weight distribution hitch have any effect on the hitch weight?

We like this trailer for the Murphy bed and the kitchen slide.  But we are concerned about the hitch weight specs.  There are just two of us, we travel light, and would not travel with much of anything in the tanks.

Any help with the above questions would be helpful.  Also, any suggestions for TT's that meet the Ford specs and have a sofa with Murphy bed would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris and Robbyn
 
The Flagstaff Microlite 21DS has the option of a Murphy bed with a sofa. The dinette is the slide rather than the kitchen and the GVWR is 4784.
 
Hitch weight, tongue weight, and tongue load all refer to the same thing: the weight that rests on the trailer ball.

The hitch rating is the max actual trailer weight that can be towed, so neither UVW or GVWR.

Hard to guess what the limiting factor may be on that particular set-up. Could be the hitch itself (materials, welds, etc.), or the method of attachment to the SUV. If you are a gambler, you might hope that there is a large safety factor built in. There probably is, but that safety margin also has to handle extremes of stresses that occur when you bounce over RR tracks, descend steep grades, etc. The push/pull and downward forces on the hitch are not static when the tow vehicle is moving.

The positioning of the 868 CCC load only affects the tongue weight. It doesn't change the actual trailer weight of the GVWR.

A WD hitch does change the downward force (weight) on the hitch - that's what it is all about.  A hitch will normally list two tongue weight ratings, one "weight carrying" and another (higher) one for "weight distributing".
 
Thanks Gary.  Until recently I lived in Salt Springs, not too far from you.

I am trying to learn if the tongue weight listed on the Forest River web sight is at gross or empty weight.  I have an e-mail into them to find out.
 
I wouldn't go by the published number at all. If the trailer is loaded properly,  the tongue weight will be 10 to 15%  of the weight of the trailer. That published number is 12.5% of the gross weight. A pretty good guess by the factory.
 
I am far from being a member of the weight police but I just don't see this vehicle working with the intended travel trailer. The hitch is rated at 200 lbs of actual carrying capacity and only increases to 500 lbs with a WDH. The travel trailer's hitch weight starts at 623 lbs. Then there is the actual weight of the trailer, size compared to tow vehicle, etc.

If this was an older Explorer, yea it would work, and even then marginally. But the current Explorer design is not a good tow vehicle for a 23' travel trailer IMO.




Mike
 
I am trying to learn if the tongue weight listed on the Forest River web sight is at gross or empty weight.
Click to expand...

Typically it's just an wild-ass guess (WAG), but this appears to be a decent one. Tongue weight needs to be 10-15% of the actual loaded trailer weight to tow properly, and its the owner's responsibility to distribute the cargo so that happens. Sometimes difficult if the storage spaces aren't well thought out.

It doesn't really make any difference what the factory estimated. With that trailer's low CCC, you are going to be at or even above GVWR when you tow it, so figure a minimum of 10% of GVWR and more likely 12%. The greater the tongue weight, the more stable the towing.

I can tell you are trying to convince yourself the Explorer is up to this towing job, but I think that's just wishful thinking. Even the 5000 lbs is probably stretching it.
 
Not so much trying to convince myself that the vehicle will tow it, there are other options.

What I'm really trying to understand is how to decide what I CAN tow based on manufacturers specs.

The Ford info is clear on the limits of the system;  I can tow max 5,000# GVWR, with max 500# tongue load.  That requires the optional Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package and weight-distributing hitch.  I have the tow package and will get the WD hitch.

So, this is where my problem comes in.  The Flagstaff Microlite 21DS that was suggested before would nicely meet our needs.  The Forest River web site says the GVWR is 4,784#, and the hitch weight is 450#.  Those are both below the Ford specs.

But what I don't know is what that 450# hitch weight means.  Is it at the UVW, so that anything else I put in the trailer will probably increase it, or is it at the GVWR and assumes that all tanks are full, propane is full, and other gear is stored in some common manner?

I figure that the WD hitch is probably going to add 50# so that 450# number is probably at the limit.  If 450# is at UVW then there is no way that this trailer will work with the vehicle.

I have searched the web for some definitive answer and have found sources that say the exact opposite of each other.  Some say hitch weight is at UVW, some say at GVWR.

Hence, my confusion in trying to figure out what to look for in a TT...
 
Stop trying to base any decision on the hitch/tongue weight in the brochure or website. It's a fiction.  Until you have your own trailer and can get it weighed, use 10% of the GVWR as the estimated tongue weight. Chances are you will be a bit higher than 10%, but your actual weight will also likely be a bit under the GVWR, so 10% of GVWR is a decent working figure beforehand.  If that modest percentage still puts you into at or very near the limits, the trailer is too much for the tow vehicle anyway.
 
Thanks Gary.  Can you recommend a reputable RV dealer in the Ocala / Orlando area that I could work with that would help me find an appropriate TT, worrying more about what is best for my use and applicable for my vehicle, over simply selling me a TT?
 
I'm afraid I can't recommend any like that. Individual sales people vary a lot, both in knowledge and their hunger to make a sale at any cost. I've found Lazydays in Tampa (Seffner) to mostly be very professional about the customers wants & needs vs "just make the sale", but there is still the individual variations. Many  of the people there have been selling RVs for years, and Lazydays requires them to attend regular classroom training on both the products they sell and safety. Some of them even own RVs themselves!

My personal mantra for RV shopping is that you must thoroughly research both your wants/needs and what is available, so that you don't have to rely on anything the sales person might say. Many RVers will tell you that ALL RV SALES PEOPLE LIE.  I think it's more a case of RV ignorance coupled with the need to draw a decent paycheck each week, but the end result is little different.  You've already made a start on that by researching trailer weights, so that you don't have to rely on a saleman's glib "you can tow that easily".  Do the same for other aspects and you won't go very wrong.

Ask lots of questions here - we can help. You will get different opinions, of course, but at least nobody here is trying to sell you something.
 
I am still researching TT's, and will be visiting LazyDays in Tampa next month.  It looks like Keystone Passport 195RB might be an option.

Now, my next question.  My 2014 AWD Ford Explorer has the tow package:  4/7 pin sockets, Class III hitch, engine cooler, and larger alternator.

Do I have to also purchase an electric brake controller to use with this TT?  Or does the wiring in the Tow Package operate the trailer brakes?

If I need one, what is recommended?

Thanks.
 
You probably need a brake controller, something like a Tekonsha Prodigy or P3. Ford pick-ups come with a built in brake control, but I don't think the Explorer does.
 
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