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Author Topic: retirement in hind-site....ugg !  (Read 7007 times)

TonyDtorch

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retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« on: October 23, 2015, 08:00:21 AM »
 after going over my retirement plans... I discovered this article .....


The over 600,000 records -- obtained through a series of public records requests to the California Public Employees' Retirement System (CalPERS) -- reveals an 'average' full-career pension of $81,372 for miscellaneous, which includes all non-safety retirees,
and $99,366 for safety retirees of all Orange County cities enrolled in CalPERS.



 the best job security possible, ...lifetime healthcare, ....lifetime paycheck.

it appears that "Civil Service" is the real wealthy middle class ....

 30 years ago I should have just given up, and gone down and got a job at any municipality.....ugg !



« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 08:51:00 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gregg

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 09:25:06 AM »
And who is working for whom?  Even if you are fortunate enough to work for a company that offers retirement, I know of nobody who is getting that level of benefits unless their salaries were well into the 6 figures.  How many of us homeowners does it take to support this?  I am responding in general terms because this seems to be an example of what is going on in many locations.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 09:27:04 AM by Gregg »
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bucks2

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 11:21:48 AM »
Firemen get days off after working 24 hour shifts. People commonly said that they sure wished they had such a cushy job and got that much time off. I gave them the address, 747 Market Street and said that the City tests every two years. All you had to do was go take the written test, oral test, physical test, doctors exam, 8 weeks of recruit training, 1 year of probationary training, and then learn to deal with dead, dying and dismembered, crawl into burning buildings, climb 100' ladders carrying 78 pounds of chainsaws, axes and hooks to cut holes in roofs with fires burning underneath (don't think about Pete in Fresno falling thru that roof), and deal with the nightmares.

Yep, the job pays well and the retirement is good. Everyone should have done it. When I was out at 3 in the morning at my 3rd accident of the night, in freezing rain, I used to imagine myself in a nice warm office pushing paper and getting off work at 5. The grass is always greener........


Ken

TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 02:08:35 PM »
 Ok Ken,
then just get a job in the maintenance department and lean against a shovel for 30 years then retire on 90k a year for the rest of my life....

Don't sound too hard to me.

The retired cops and firemen I personally know get well over 6 figures a year for the rest of their life..
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 02:10:59 PM by TonyDtorch »

bucks2

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2015, 03:47:21 PM »
I wonder why everyone doesn't do it then, beings it's so easy.

Ken

Gregg

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2015, 04:29:05 PM »
It is not the salary they were or are getting while performing the job, it is the higher than normal retirement benefits that is unsustainable.  I was fortunate that I worked for a company that even offered retirement but it was nowhere near the salary I was making when I retired.  The medical coverage is pretty well nonexistent.  Would I want that level of pension? Sure, but where do you think all of this is heading?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 04:35:34 PM by Gregg »
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bucks2

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2015, 04:49:32 PM »
Is the pension money put away as it is earned/paid so that it can grow and earn interest or is it being spent now with promissory notes put in for a future day of reckoning? Some states actually are putting the money into investments that grow and build a huge bankroll to support the future retirements. CA in not one of those. Is that the employees fault or the voters fault for putting politicians in charge of the funds?

Ken


TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2015, 05:24:36 PM »
Is that the employees fault or the voters fault for putting politicians in charge of the funds?

Ken

Ken:

I'm not sure about that....but I do feel really disenfranchised here in CA...( but I still love it. )

A little story.....3 years ago I had a wonderful mechanic that loved the work, he was earning $35.00 per hour at my shop, everyone was happy.

he comes in to work one morning and says he has to give me two weeks notice....!!! ???    I said, "any wage or anything I can do to keep you here I will do including 5% ownership per year"....he turned me down right there.

He says he put in a job appl. passed all the tests at the L.A. Dept of water and Power about 5 years ago, and they called with his job..... a starting machinist.
......starting wage of a 40 hour week is $94,000.00 a year.   +  Plus CalPers benefits...and they want him to work up to 60 hours a week if possible....

 I was stunned.  I've never worked for a company that ......had no competition and could charge whatever they wanted... :-\

I guess it's ........Welcome to Civil Service.



I see him about once a year at antique motorcycle shows and he always says thanks... and sorry to me.... :-[

I'm telling my kids and everyone else I know...Easy or not, it may be the best/only chance for a pretty decent existence in America .


things have change Ken, in many public safety jobs ....they suffer a very high percentage of injury / retirements usually after about 5-8 years of hard work.

 it is rare to hear of a "full service" P/S retirement anymore.

    Thank you Ken for your service to the people of America. you did work hard and should enjoy your retirement.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 06:24:21 PM by TonyDtorch »

Peteyboy

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2015, 06:29:46 PM »
Anyone who is willing to die to protect me or my belongings has my thanks, and whatever they get in their retirement, in my opinion, is well earned.  Thank you all.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2015, 08:18:15 PM »
It is not the salary they were or are getting while performing the job, it is the higher than normal retirement benefits that is unsustainable.  I was fortunate that I worked for a company that even offered retirement but it was nowhere near the salary I was making when I retired.  The medical coverage is pretty well nonexistent.  Would I want that level of pension? Sure, but where do you think all of this is heading?

the Calpers retirement rate for public safety positions is equal to 83% of your highest years income.

Typically in the last year before retirement,  everyone skips vacation and puts in a lot of overtime ,

bucks2

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2015, 09:11:56 PM »
I think you'll find CA and a few other states, like NY, are not the norm. And that is exactly why they have the money problems they do. In my system it would take 41.5 years of service to get 83% in retirement. Disability retirement is 2% of high 5 years salary, per year served. If you retired disabled after 8 years of service you'd typically get 16% of your salary. Not many disability retirements under this system, but it is solvent. We buy disability insurance out of our own pocket. Our typical retiree has 30 years or more service. Before I retired, over 40% of the working FF's were eligible for service retirement, out of a little over 400 FF's. Oh and did I mention we pay 50% of our retirement contribution, just over 7% of salary? And the Feds in their infinite wisdom in the Windfall Elimination Act take the majority of Social Security away because we also have a "state" pension. Kiss that 7.65% of whatever earnings you make on a second job away.

And I'd do it all again. It was a great career 95% of the time.

Ken

TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2015, 09:25:17 PM »
it's not just a couple of states in financial trouble, 16 states are actually operating bankrupt.......and, what is our National debt now days ?

I wish I could have gotten a piece of the pie before the ship goes down.


Ever wonder why there is a waiting list for Civil Service jobs. ..?

« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 09:06:04 PM by TonyDtorch »

dave54

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 07:48:17 PM »
the Calpers retirement rate for public safety positions is equal to 83% of your highest years income.

Typically in the last year before retirement,  everyone skips vacation and puts in a lot of overtime ,

That would be after ~27 years of service, with 3% per year of service.  Around 7%-9% of salary deducted from their paycheck and are not eligible for social security.

In most counties overtime does not count towards final salary.  Base pay is used.  Some counties have different contracts.

After I became an empty nester I started putting half my salary into my IRA,  457 plan, and other investments.  My investment income is now greater than my pension.

I also had annual physical fitness testing --fail and I would have lost my job.  As you get older those tests get a lot harder.  I had to maintain all my accrediations and certifications,  and complete the recurring CEs.  A lot of my time off was taking classes on line.  We had restrictions on day off activities -- 10 hour bottle rule.  I could not even crack a beer or have a glass of wine 10 hours before going on shift.  When I was duty officer I was on 24 hour call (unpaid) and had to stay within a two hour drive on my day off.

All in all it was a great career but would not want to do it again.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 10:53:02 PM »
   I am not saying a public safety job is an easy job....that goodness the retirement and pay is pretty good.


Rather than go through all the day after day misery and 24 hour danger of a public safety career ....

I should have gotten a job at almost county/ city/ state maintenance yard and spent 30 years leaning against a shovel.

The average CalPers retirement for all other non P/S jobs  is..... 88,000.00 per year    and comes with full medical coverage  for life.



as a side note....I know this traffic officer at a local beach city here.
According to his co-workers, he earned his way the $200k per year club with all the traffic court overtime pay..and he is due to retire soon.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 11:16:47 PM by TonyDtorch »

TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 07:33:21 PM »
   I am not saying a public safety job is an easy job....that goodness the retirement and pay is pretty good.


Rather than go through all the day after day misery and 24 hour danger of a public safety career ....

what I was saying was,   I should have gotten a job at almost county/ city/ state maintenance yard and spent 30 years leaning against a shovel.

The average CalPers retirement for all other non P/S jobs  is..... 88,000.00 per year    and comes with full medical coverage  for life.



as a side note....I know this traffic officer at a local beach city here.
According to his co-workers, he earned his way into the $200k club with all the traffic court overtime pay..and he is due to retire soon. they work 3/12's so just about every court hearing earns them about $65.00 per hour, he is the leader in DUI arrests.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 07:39:11 PM by TonyDtorch »

SeilerBird

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2015, 08:08:29 PM »
The retired cops and firemen I personally know get well over 6 figures a year for the rest of their life..
Only if they live long enough to collect it.
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jyro

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2015, 08:31:21 PM »
after going over my retirement plans... I discovered this article ....

 30 years ago I should have just given up, and gone down and got a job at any municipality.....ugg !

But you didn't, quit worrying about what you didn't do 30 years ago.  live life and be happy
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rebelsun

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2015, 11:14:56 AM »
Firemen get days off after working 24 hour shifts. People commonly said that they sure wished they had such a cushy job and got that much time off. I gave them the address, 747 Market Street and said that the City tests every two years. All you had to do was go take the written test, oral test, physical test, doctors exam, 8 weeks of recruit training, 1 year of probationary training, and then learn to deal with dead, dying and dismembered, crawl into burning buildings, climb 100' ladders carrying 78 pounds of chainsaws, axes and hooks to cut holes in roofs with fires burning underneath (don't think about Pete in Fresno falling thru that roof), and deal with the nightmares.

Yep, the job pays well and the retirement is good. Everyone should have done it. When I was out at 3 in the morning at my 3rd accident of the night, in freezing rain, I used to imagine myself in a nice warm office pushing paper and getting off work at 5. The grass is always greener........


Ken
I would do the same thing, when people would say, "I pay your salary" or "I wish I had your job".....I would send them to the Department of Personnel Administration (Civil Service) 1 Ashburton Pl., Boston, Ma., and tell them to take the test!

The job always looks cushy, until, like you said, we're out in the snow, the slush, or the mud, at 2am, crawling into a car flipped over, trying to stabilize a trapped patient, with a neck injury, while all the 9-5ers are home in bed, in their warm houses. 
My friends would laugh when they would tell me about their large pay raise, bonus, or other comps they got from their company, which we didn't get.  But when I retired, got my pension and health insurance benefit, guaranteed for life, they would say, they will never be able to retire, because they tapped into their 401K several times over the years, and their investment returns were down, as was their portfolio, and they wished they had a Defined Benefit Pension plan like I did.
I would tell them......We all make choices in life, some good, some bad.  But the one thing that stays the same, the grass is sometimes greener on the other side of the fence.
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rebelsun

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2015, 11:19:14 AM »
Only if they live long enough to collect it.
Very true.
I can't tell you how many men and women I worked with, who retired, and were dead a year or two later.  The job really can eat you up!
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RoyM

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2015, 11:44:00 AM »
Part of that is not having any interests outside work. They retired then found they were bored to tears with no hobbies, no plans, nothing to keep them interested in life. Divorce rates spike at that point too, they start getting on each others nerves with all that time together and nothing pleasurable to talk about. I don't have time to back to the grind even if I wanted to.
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catblaster

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2015, 12:12:26 PM »
You forget or dont understand all that is involved. I worked for county government for 15 year before forced retirement.  I took a 30% cut in pay to go to the county along with having a 5 year pay freeze. They ONLY reason is for the benefits, pay sucks, supervision is either non existent or micro managed.  How many private employees are followed around by the press then reported on. While working my health benefits were as good as the outside and for that I get $600 a month.  We did get a Christmas party once but because of the taxpayers possible complaining we paid for it ourselves. 

Not all retirement systems are created equal. 
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Roland Schwarz

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2015, 03:26:02 PM »
You were told that Your benefits were for life but who will pay for them when the state and federal government go bankrupt? This is becoming a very real possibility when China decides to quit buying our debt.
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dave54

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2015, 05:02:16 PM »
You were told that Your benefits were for life but who will pay for them when the state and federal government go bankrupt? This is becoming a very real possibility when China decides to quit buying our debt.

If the federal government goes bankrupt we all will have larger problems than a pension cut.

According to the last full audit by KPMG the federal CSRS and FERS retirement funds are fiscally sound. State funds may be different.

I believe China is the number three holder of U.S. Debt, behind Canada.
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Roland Schwarz

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2015, 05:23:16 PM »
Actually I think Japan is number one and China number two in holding our debt. My point was that many states and local government bodies are in trouble and the federal government may not be able to bail them out in the future.
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rebelsun

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2015, 05:56:54 PM »
If the federal government goes bankrupt we all will have larger problems than a pension cut.

According to the last full audit by KPMG the federal CSRS and FERS retirement funds are fiscally sound. State funds may be different.

I believe China is the number three holder of U.S. Debt, behind Canada.
You are quite right.
If the U.S. Government goes bankrupt, it will make the Greek financial crisis, most recent recession, and the Great Depression look like child's play!
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Roland Schwarz

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2015, 06:19:34 PM »
You are quite right, the future of our great country is in peril. And it could be a horror story none of us wants to see. At some point we need to wake up and understand we can't spend or promise to spend monies we do not have or will not earn in the future. A lesson that most of us practice in our personal lives but the government at all levels doesn't seem to get.
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Mavarick

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2015, 10:02:30 PM »
I for one have never seen a job that looked harder than the one I had, that was just impossible!!!!! Everyone else's job was easier, paid more, required less education and had more time off, something about the grass always being greener..... :o
I also know some folks working for the county and I wouldn't have their job. Always being scrutinized for every dime spent and every minute sitting in a truck vs. outside working no matter the situation, never mind leaning on a shovel. Had a lot of family that were cops or firemen, some never were lucky enough to know retirement, wouldn't have those jobs either and, my hats off to them for what they do every day.
Retirement in this country can be the best anywhere, we don't need to cover that, we just need to take responsibility for ourselves. Everyone else's always looks better. If we could convince our young people to save just a little bit whether it be in a 401k or Roth they could write their own ticket simply because of compounding. The same thing most defined benefit plans do, hint, hint. Sure some will get a little bit better deal and there will always be someone who figures out a scam. In the end it's a lot less work to figure out what career makes you happy and to find your way to save just a little bit and retire young.
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TonyDtorch

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2015, 11:38:47 PM »
I was commenting about the CalPers  Non-Public safety retirement    being an 'average' .. of  $ 88,000.00 per year lifetime retirement.

I'm not saying any of the first responder jobs are easy, ... but they do pay well now days...no wonder there is an applicant waiting list of 5+ years for these jobs.. .


 read this article about a sleepy little town called Costa Mesa California.



http://articles.dailypilot.com/2012-03-24/news/tn-dpt-0325-commentary2-20120324_1_firefighter-contract-costa-mesa-taxpayers-assn-salaries

.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 12:05:01 AM by TonyDtorch »

Gregg

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2015, 08:54:37 AM »
Actually I think Japan is number one and China number two in holding our debt. My point was that many states and local government bodies are in trouble and the federal government may not be able to bail them out in the future.
This country is far better off than some most, but we should be ashamed of how the debt has been handled over the last few years.  If we as a country can not pay the bills now, what do you think is going to happen when the Feds decide to raise interest rates?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 10:32:35 AM by Gregg »
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garyb1st

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Re: retirement in hind-site....ugg !
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2015, 08:56:46 PM »
Is the pension money put away as it is earned/paid so that it can grow and earn interest or is it being spent now with promissory notes put in for a future day of reckoning? Some states actually are putting the money into investments that grow and build a huge bankroll to support the future retirements. CA in not one of those. Is that the employees fault or the voters fault for putting politicians in charge of the funds?

Ken

California is not alone in this mess.   The vast majority of states are in the same predicament.  According to Forbes, the total amount of unfunded liability for all States is $4.7 Trillion.  California is maybe $750 Billion.  But California also has about 10% of the US population.  So while we're doing worse than the average, we have a lot of company and I'm pretty sure we're not leading the pack. 

What has exacerbated the situation is the number of public sector employees who are retiring with final average  salaries that exceed their base pay by a factor of 2X or more.   When actuaries project required funding levels for future pension payments, they assume that when an employee retires his ending salary for pension purposes will be approximately what he was making when he retired, not 2 or 3 times the amount. 
Gary B1st

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