retirement in hind-site....ugg !

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You forget or dont understand all that is involved. I worked for county government for 15 year before forced retirement.  I took a 30% cut in pay to go to the county along with having a 5 year pay freeze. They ONLY reason is for the benefits, pay sucks, supervision is either non existent or micro managed.  How many private employees are followed around by the press then reported on. While working my health benefits were as good as the outside and for that I get $600 a month.  We did get a Christmas party once but because of the taxpayers possible complaining we paid for it ourselves. 

Not all retirement systems are created equal. 
 
You were told that Your benefits were for life but who will pay for them when the state and federal government go bankrupt? This is becoming a very real possibility when China decides to quit buying our debt.
 
Roland Schwarz said:
You were told that Your benefits were for life but who will pay for them when the state and federal government go bankrupt? This is becoming a very real possibility when China decides to quit buying our debt.

If the federal government goes bankrupt we all will have larger problems than a pension cut.

According to the last full audit by KPMG the federal CSRS and FERS retirement funds are fiscally sound. State funds may be different.

I believe China is the number three holder of U.S. Debt, behind Canada.
 
Actually I think Japan is number one and China number two in holding our debt. My point was that many states and local government bodies are in trouble and the federal government may not be able to bail them out in the future.
 
dave54 said:
If the federal government goes bankrupt we all will have larger problems than a pension cut.

According to the last full audit by KPMG the federal CSRS and FERS retirement funds are fiscally sound. State funds may be different.

I believe China is the number three holder of U.S. Debt, behind Canada.
You are quite right.
If the U.S. Government goes bankrupt, it will make the Greek financial crisis, most recent recession, and the Great Depression look like child's play!
 
You are quite right, the future of our great country is in peril. And it could be a horror story none of us wants to see. At some point we need to wake up and understand we can't spend or promise to spend monies we do not have or will not earn in the future. A lesson that most of us practice in our personal lives but the government at all levels doesn't seem to get.
 
I for one have never seen a job that looked harder than the one I had, that was just impossible!!!!! Everyone else's job was easier, paid more, required less education and had more time off, something about the grass always being greener..... :eek:
I also know some folks working for the county and I wouldn't have their job. Always being scrutinized for every dime spent and every minute sitting in a truck vs. outside working no matter the situation, never mind leaning on a shovel. Had a lot of family that were cops or firemen, some never were lucky enough to know retirement, wouldn't have those jobs either and, my hats off to them for what they do every day.
Retirement in this country can be the best anywhere, we don't need to cover that, we just need to take responsibility for ourselves. Everyone else's always looks better. If we could convince our young people to save just a little bit whether it be in a 401k or Roth they could write their own ticket simply because of compounding. The same thing most defined benefit plans do, hint, hint. Sure some will get a little bit better deal and there will always be someone who figures out a scam. In the end it's a lot less work to figure out what career makes you happy and to find your way to save just a little bit and retire young.
Regret is what you do to occupy your time so you are too busy to see opportunity.
(an old saying I just made up)  :D
 
I was commenting about the CalPers  Non-Public safety retirement   being an 'average' .. of  $ 88,000.00 per year lifetime retirement.

I'm not saying any of the first responder jobs are easy, ... but they do pay well now days...no wonder there is an applicant waiting list of 5+ years for these jobs.. .


read this article about a sleepy little town called Costa Mesa California.



http://articles.dailypilot.com/2012-03-24/news/tn-dpt-0325-commentary2-20120324_1_firefighter-contract-costa-mesa-taxpayers-assn-salaries

.
 
Roland Schwarz said:
Actually I think Japan is number one and China number two in holding our debt. My point was that many states and local government bodies are in trouble and the federal government may not be able to bail them out in the future.
This country is far better off than some most, but we should be ashamed of how the debt has been handled over the last few years.  If we as a country can not pay the bills now, what do you think is going to happen when the Feds decide to raise interest rates?
 
bucks2 said:
Is the pension money put away as it is earned/paid so that it can grow and earn interest or is it being spent now with promissory notes put in for a future day of reckoning? Some states actually are putting the money into investments that grow and build a huge bankroll to support the future retirements. CA in not one of those. Is that the employees fault or the voters fault for putting politicians in charge of the funds?

Ken

California is not alone in this mess.  The vast majority of states are in the same predicament.  According to Forbes, the total amount of unfunded liability for all States is $4.7 Trillion.  California is maybe $750 Billion.  But California also has about 10% of the US population.  So while we're doing worse than the average, we have a lot of company and I'm pretty sure we're not leading the pack. 

What has exacerbated the situation is the number of public sector employees who are retiring with final average  salaries that exceed their base pay by a factor of 2X or more.  When actuaries project required funding levels for future pension payments, they assume that when an employee retires his ending salary for pension purposes will be approximately what he was making when he retired, not 2 or 3 times the amount. 
 
Peteyboy said:
Anyone who is willing to die to protect me or my belongings has my thanks, and whatever they get in their retirement, in my opinion, is well earned.  Thank you all.



hmm... six figure salaries for cops and firemen families is well earned, ...............and, the active duty pay for many military families is below the poverty level......

I'm not sure I go along with it....but lots of thanks  !  :eek:

 
bucks2 said:
Is the pension money put away as it is earned/paid so that it can grow and earn interest or is it being spent now with promissory notes put in for a future day of reckoning? Some states actually are putting the money into investments that grow and build a huge bankroll to support the future retirements. CA in not one of those. Is that the employees fault or the voters fault for putting politicians in charge of the funds?

Ken
Sometimes the pension funds are treated like an ATM by the politicians, just as Social Security has been dipped into by our leaders, thus leading to it being inadequate and underfunded, as well as being referred to as unstable and unsustainable.
The truth is, if the funds were left alone by the pols, and only used for their intended purpose, and funding schedules were adhered to, along with having money managers performing their fiduciary duties, and investing the money properly, the accounts would be fine, but they refuse to follow these very simple rules, and they have put these retirement accounts in jeopardy of collapse in the future.
It's not their money, to do with as they please, so they shouldn't be touching it, and replacing the money they take out with IOUs!
 
rebelsun said:
Sometimes the pension funds are treated like an ATM by the politicians, just as Social Security has been dipped into by our leaders, thus leading to it being inadequate and underfunded, as well as being referred to as unstable and unsustainable.
The truth is, if the funds were left alone by the pols, and only used for their intended purpose, and funding schedules were adhered to, along with having money managers performing their fiduciary duties, and investing the money properly, the accounts would be fine, but they refuse to follow these very simple rules, and they have put these retirement accounts in jeopardy of collapse in the future.
It's not their money, to do with as they please, so they shouldn't be touching it, and replacing the money they take out with IOUs!

A lot of truth there Rebelsun. But who is blamed? Why the retiree of course.


Ken
 
bucks2 said:
A lot of truth there Rebelsun. But who is blamed? Why the retiree of course.


Ken

Blame.....?

I'm guessing there is a Fire Chief in Costs Mesa that does not feel there are any problems with his $300k+ salary and his 6 figure retirement plan.

  it's well earned....right ?


 
Did that fire chief write the retirement rules? Does he hold the proverbial purse strings? Or did he find a hole in the rules that someone else wrote? If indeed he set his own salary, without a City Manager, City Council, Board of Governors, Board of Commissioners, or someone else setting the rules, then shame on him. If he does work under one of those types of systems, then we're back squarely at politicians. (Is that the City where the part time council members were making $150,000 a year too?)

According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes332011.htm) CA employs 30,440 firefighters in the state. Their average pay is $34.44 per hour $71,630 annually. So while there are no doubt some outliers, there are also a bunch of hard working folks.

I'm not aware of any firefighter whose job requires a vow of poverty. While every taxpayer would like every public employee to have a reasonable salary, the pay should be commensurate with the risk and/or skills involved.

Ken
 
bucks2 said:
Did that fire chief write the retirement rules? Does he hold the proverbial purse strings? Or did he find a hole in the rules that someone else wrote? If indeed he set his own salary, without a City Manager, City Council, Board of Governors, Board of Commissioners, or someone else setting the rules, then shame on him. If he does work under one of those types of systems, then we're back squarely at politicians. (Is that the City where the part time council members were making $150,000 a year too?)

According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes332011.htm) CA employs 30,440 firefighters in the state. Their average pay is $34.44 per hour $71,630 annually. So while there are no doubt some outliers, there are also a bunch of hard working folks.

I'm not aware of any firefighter whose job requires a vow of poverty. While every taxpayer would like every public employee to have a reasonable salary, the pay should be commensurate with the risk and/or skills involved.

Ken
Absolutely.  I don't know anyone, including Tony D'Torch, who if entitled to a pension of $150K, or whatever amount, would decline it after 30 years of service, saying all I need is $80K to live on, so the City can keep the rest, and squander it as they please.  Yes it does come back around to the Politicians!
 
bucks2 said:
Did that fire chief write the retirement rules?
  It's unlikely he was personally or directly involved.  But aren't you guys unionized?  Do the unions play a role in wage and benefits negotiations?  Do the union members elect their representatives?  Are those representatives somehow involved in the process? 

 
Many firefighters, maybe most are indeed union members. And the unions do bargain for wages and benefits like every union. However management always has the last say, unless it goes to binding arbitration, in which case the arbitrator chosen by elimination from a list supplied by a neutral party makes the decision. Remember that firefighters generally are not allowed to strike.

Fire Chiefs in my area are rarely unionized. Typically they serve at the pleasure of the appointing authority. In my city the City Manager. In the area I used to live in, the Board of Fire Commissioners. Our Battalion Chiefs are represented, everything above that fends for themselves. (Asst. Chief, Deputy Chief, etc) But every Department can be different and there may parts of the country that do thing differently.

Our retirement system was taken over by the State in the early 1970's. Mandatory participation subject to the rules the legislature set down. While the union can lobby for changes, any changes can only be made by the state legislature. Did I mention that politicians are in charge of pensions?

Ken
 
okay !.... they earned it.....

think of how safe we'd be if we had a $300k minimum wage for all cops/firefiters ..........

wait,.......it kinda depends on who's going to pay for it  ?

us,  or  the government ?

;)


(side note)
In L.A. city, they passed a law making the minimum wage $15.00.....they discovered that many fast food workers were having problems raising families on the existing minimum wage of $8.25 per hour.

Another problem fixed !    ....thank goodness we have those well paid city lawmakers ! !


 
For LE overtime is not calculated into the safety retirement formula, only base pay. Lifetime medical is not part of PERS it is up to each agency that is handled during contract negotiations. Some LE agencies have received raises but a vast majority have received no COLA since 2009. Last I checked, a few years ago, the highest paid PERS retirees were not on the safety side but special districts and other agencies. I believe as of January 2016 3% at 50 is no longer the formula.
 
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