retirement in hind-site....ugg !

TonyDtorch said:

  I am not saying a public safety job is an easy job....that goodness the retirement and pay is pretty good.


Rather than go through all the day after day misery and 24 hour danger of a public safety career ....

I should have gotten a job at almost county/ city/ state maintenance yard and spent 30 years leaning against a shovel.

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Truck drivers and construction laborers have deadlier jobs than police officers and the statistics have shown this for years, quit yer bellyaching.  They have rope handled shovels now so there no more leaning either.

Bill

Life is full of choices, some people make good choices, and some make bad choices. It all comes down to the choice you make.  In 1977 I left a well paying job in the newspaper delivery union making over $20000.00 a year to a Goverment job that paid $11500.00 a year. In aviation.  My love always.  My father thought I was crazy to leave a good paying UNION job. I did not do it because of the pay, I did it because of the love of aviation. 

Now as a "Goverment Parisite". As I have been called, and proud to be considered a parasite because in the 34 years as a parasite, I did my job very well, loved to go to work, train other parasites to do there job better than me. Knowing that if they make a mistake, they could kill a lot of taxpayers that pay our salaries, and now my pension. 

I also made the choice to put some of my salary away into FERS and believe it or not; US SAVINGS BONDS.
They are paying a little over 5%. Another choice.

I started cooking when I was 17 worked in a pizza parlor, a cook in the army, pumped gas when I was 20, drove a truck for 7 years, than worked for the FAA for 34 years.

We now have a well deserved pension no COLA this year, all the mony I put into SS is worth 10% because I would be considered a double dipper (2 pensions) we pay for our health plan, and all of this because of the choices I made.

So before fingers are pointed, blame directed, think of the choices we have made in our lifetime.

driftless shifter said:

Truck drivers and construction laborers have deadlier jobs than police officers and the statistics have shown this for years, quit yer bellyaching...

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Those statistics only consider on duty deaths.  They do not factor in chronic injuries, stress, or job induced cancers that show up years later.

dave54 said:

Those statistics only consider on duty deaths.  They do not factor in chronic injuries, stress, or job induced cancers that show up years later.

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that's because chronic pain ends....right where death begins.




I was talking to a friends yesterday about this subject,  One guy tells me he has a brother that works for the city of Tustin CA.....

His brother brags about it typically takes all day for a team of 5 guys to install a Stop sign. He's been there now for 12 years.


yes...The smart choice.
I'm telling everyone.....go put a job application in every Federal, State, County and City there is...... when they call your name, you are set for life.

....I worked my butt off for 40 years in private industry trades.....now,  my whole body is worn out without any government compensation.

yes, ......It was a bad choice.......UGG !

UGG

Did you enjoy your work for those 40 years?

If you did than it was not a bad choice.  I tell people who say "you have it made"  the story of the turtle and the hare.  Plod along live within your means, put money away and when you cross the finish line you will be a winner, not like the hare and rush to the finish line with nothing to show for it.

Reading all the responses to this subject many good points are brought up.  My brother and sister in law who are very successful CPA's and real estate investors would tell my bride and I that we would never be rich and enjoy there lifestyle, but in the end enjoy a comfortable retirement. They did not have that option.  They had to plan for there retirement.

They were right, we lived within our means saved and if the Government decides to change the system, we will still be able to live.

Now there are some horror stories out there about retirement but remember we did not make the rules. We just live by them.  There were company's that hosed the workers (being in aviation) PAN AM, EASTERN, TWA. Names like Lorenzo will ring a bell. Corporate raiders raped the retirement system. 

I guess you can say the corporate raiders used the rules to there advantage as well.  I never thought of myself as a Government employee, I was a Air Traffic Controller doing what I loved to do.  I am sure the feeling was the same if you were a fireman, policeman, or bridge builder.  We're all my choices good? No, but a long time ago I learned to move on and do the best job you can do.

I thank my brother and sister in law in giving us some great advise, but I was doing what I loved. 

Just a little extra, my real love was to be a airline pilot, (I hold a commercial ticket) when I was a JR in HS my guidance counselor asked me what I wanted to do. When I told him he said I needed to go to college and did not have the grades to get into college. I believed him BAD CHOICE!!!. 

Tin man said:

Life is full of choices, some people make good choices, and some make bad choices. It all comes down to the choice you make.

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True with one caveat.  The choices we make are usually dependent upon our needs at the time, not our expectations of a future we have no control over.  You got lucky or you're a damned good psychic.  Most of us can't predict the future.  I think if you talk to anyone who was employed in the automobile industry, or maybe a resident of a city that is fighting it's way out of bankruptcy, you'll probably find that most of those individuals couldn't possibly foresee what was going to transpire 20 to 30 years into the future.  So to suggest that those who didn't do quite as well made bad choices, is a bit like adding insult to injury. 

Tin man said:

... I tell people who say "you have it made"  the story of the turtle and the hare.  Plod along live within your means, put money away and when you cross the finish line you will be a winner, not like the hare and rush to the finish line with nothing to show for it...

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Everyone here knows at least one person who always has a new car, the latest designer fashions, the newest high tech gizmo, and not a penny in the bank.
I think of it more as the grasshopper and ant story.  We have become a nation of grasshoppers angry at the ants.

Choices have a lot to do with outcome, I think. There are always statistical outliers, pension systems that went broke, catastrophic accidents, or just plain bad luck. But consider the "artist" who was sure that if she just followed her inner voice, she'd be successful and everything would work out in the end. That's a choice, and it often leads to disappointment later in life. I worked with many folks who didn't want the responsibility of being an officer responsible for an individual unit, a station or half the city. They didn't study for promotions, didn't take on the headaches and responsibility and their pension is now significantly smaller than mine. That was a choice. The outcomes of those choices on promotions are pretty predictable. How many young people do you know that "can't afford" to put money in a 401k? A predictable outcome choice. And there are many many other choices that have predictable outcomes.

I spent much of my off duty time at my second job. Many made the choice to enjoy their time off, play golf, and do whatever. A predictable outcome choice. Both my wife and I worked. A predictable outcome choice, now with 2 pensions. She absolutely hated her job and going to work each day. She could have quit working and been a stay at home mom. Our choice was to both work and retire at our earliest opportunity. A predictable outcome choice. We chose to live a relatively modest lifestyle. We put a lot of money away that could have been spent on lavish vacations, new cars, or whatever. Instead it went into the proverbial bank (a variety of investments) so we could pay cash for our toys and do pretty much what we want in retirement. We started making those predictable outcome choices 30 years ago.

Ken

dave54 said:

Everyone here knows at least one person who always has a new car, the latest designer fashions, the newest high tech gizmo, and not a penny in the bank.
I think of it more as the grasshopper and ant story.  We have become a nation of grasshoppers angry at the ants.

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Or the newest diesel pusher, which they have financed for 30 years, because it has a 6 figure price tag, and they're towing a new SUV behind them, which they have financed for 60 or 72 months, because they can't afford either, and neither will be worth nearly as much as they owe on them in a few years.
They have no retirement savings, live paycheck to paycheck in their checking account, they have a small savings account valued at less than a weeks pay, and credit cards up the wazoo.
Then they look with envy, when all their contemporaries retire, and they have to keep working until they're carried out feet first, because they can't afford to retire.
But they gotta have the best RV and toad at the campground!

rebelsun said:

.....live paycheck to paycheck in their checking account, they have a small savings account valued at less than a weeks pay, and credit cards up the wazoo.

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I have some friends of mine who own a specialty used car dealership.  They tell me frequently it is not the price, it is how much it is per month.  It is surprising the number of people who are making really good money but can not qualify for a car loan because of cash flow.  We have become a society and country that budgets that way. 

Ken;

My brothers name.

  Our lives seem to run parallel. I also held a second job, (several) my bride does not believe woman should not work. Should not be dependent on spouse.  After children were in school she went back to work. A second pension, it was her money that went into savings bonds until they changed the interest format. Also when daughters college was payed for the money went into FERS. People are not aware that when the US Government went insolvent no budget, they borrowed from the FERS Bond Fund to stay solvent till the budget passed.  They did this twice. Reason why when we retired, we moved our money out of FERS.

I think our choices were inspired by our parents and how they lived.  As they say the "Apple does not fall far from the tree."

As what happened to Detroit and California, the auto industry, and the housing market it was only a surprise to the uninformed.  All the indications were pointing to disaster. The rest is history.  (to the uninformed, history repeats itself)

Now I do not have a crystal ball, I'm not psychic, ( have been called psycho a few times) but the path that the airlines are taking is a path to disaster. The Government will be taking control if they do not get out of the Greed is Good Attitude.

My retirement is coming from SS, the VA and an annuity.

I'm actually ok,
Could be worse..... I have a brother, 2years older cum laudi MBA real estate broker, used to make killer money and lived high, but he's hurting now and he has no SSI coming.

He's got to just keep going to work till the lottery gods smile on him.

Jim, I think we are from the same mold. Don't you wish you could just let the 33 year old bonds keep earning that interest rate? Now they automatically move them to zero interest fund when they reach maximum maturity and you have to go in monthly and transfer the money out. Not that I have any bonds converted from paper to electronic, that are that old or anything.......

My wife was CSRS so we have the defined benefit pension. And the Thrift Savings system as an extra investment.

Unfortunately I didn't learn much money stuff from my folks. I had an employer that led me in the right direction. He hired me as a high school dropout. He made sure I did my mechanics apprenticeship. He insisted I buy my first house at age 19. He showed me how to automatically save money from my check each payday, even when I wanted to spend every dime. He insisted I buy my own service station at age 21. And he showed me how to do it all with my own money. He and his wife definitely put me on the right path.

There wasn't enough money in their bank account to pay the $700 cremation for either of my parents. I paid for both. My older brother passed last week and his son is paying for his cremation. He didn't have any money saved either, simply lived month to month on SS. I'm afraid there are too many folks living like that. They never planned for the day that they couldn't work anymore.

Ken

Tin man said:

As what happened to Detroit and California, the auto industry, and the housing market it was only a surprise to the uninformed.  All the indications were pointing to disaster. The rest is history.  (to the uninformed, history repeats itself)

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Actually I was referring to our ability to predict what the future will hold, 20 to 30 years out.  I may be wrong but I don't think many were able to make choices 30 years ago based on where they thought they would be today.   

I bought my home in Los Angeles in 1991.  By 1995 the value had dropped and my mortgage was under water.  If I lost my job at that time, most likely I would have lost my home to foreclosure.  Was it a bad choice to buy a home in a high priced city when the prices were up?  Maybe, maybe not.  I was sitting on the capital gains from the sale of my previous home and needed to buy or pay the capital gains tax.  I don't like paying tax.  So in retrospect, maybe I should have paid the tax instead of buying my present home.  Bad choice?  Perhaps.  In 2006, we were trying to sell our house and our asking price, 3 times the original purchase price, was a bit too high for the market.  Bottom line, it didn't sell.  When the market went south the following year  the value of our home dropped to about 1/2 of its 2006 high.  Today, the price is not as high as it was in 2006 but it's still more than 2 1/2 times what I paid for it.  And it's all mine.  I'd like to say that this was all based on my ability to make good choices.  It wasn't.  I attribute it all to dumb luck.  My father came from a very poor family.  Sadly he spent more than he made.  He needed to keep up with the jones.  A trait I don't share.  This apple fell a long ways from the tree. 

Years ago I was talking to a shoe maker that had more children than I could imagine.  When I asked him how he could afford so many children he answer was simple.  It's not the income.  It's the outgo.  I have lived with that in mind ever since.  I have always saved money.  Even today, I save money.  More than my MRD.  It all goes right back to the bank.   

Now I do not have a crystal ball, I'm not psychic, ( have been called psycho a few times)

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Then psycho it shall be.  ;D 

Gary what was the alternative to buying a house in your example? Not buying and just renting? Where would you be had you rented either or both times? Better off or worse off?

I'd guess that buying a house was a good choice. If you hadn't bought the house, you would have paid the tax and the money would be gone. A known bad outcome. And then you'd have a pile of rent receipts, another known bad outcome. Looking at the big picture buying a house to be your home is a known good outcome, most of the time. Buying a house to flip and make a pile of money with no effort is a risky choice. It worked well for some and sank many financially. It sounds like you made a sound choice to buy a home. I don't see the luck in that.

Ken

bucks2 said:

Gary what was the alternative to buying a house in your example? Not buying and just renting? Where would you be had you rented either or both times? Better off or worse off? 

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Ken, I'm probably more like you and the "Psycho"  sorry Tin Man I couldn't resist, than the folks that spent their future retirement money before they retired.  My brother did that.  Retired at 55 without a pension.  Lived on 10 year worth of annual payments from the business he sold at 55.  Today almost 10 years later, he supplements his income by working part-time at a Golf Course in Phoenix.  He always had new cars, new homes, new furniture, new carpet, new everything and nice vacations.  Today he's scratching. His only saving grace, he made some money in real estate when younger.  Fortunately most of that went into a savings account.  That kept him out of the bread lines, but he doesn't have a lot of extra cash.    [/quote]

  If you hadn't bought the house, you would have paid the tax and the money would be gone. A known bad outcome. And then you'd have a pile of rent receipts, another known bad outcome.

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  I only have had a pile of rent receipts because that's what I do.  I tend to hang onto financial records.  But there's lot's of data that support renting over buying.  In the 25 years I've been in this house, I've probably spent $50,000 fixing it.  New plumbing, new roof, new sliding glass doors, new paint and the ongoing maintenance and expense of lawn care and tree trimming.  In the last 6 months, I've put in a new furnace and AC and yesterday, a new front door and 6 windows.  That's another $13,000 in receipts for my collection.  I have another $5,000 worth of window work which I'll have done next year and then who knows.  I need to replace my driveway, my house needs to be painted again etc., etc., etc..  My house is paid but the tax, utilities, and insurance (including earthquake) is more than $10,000 annually.  Add in ongoing plumbing and electrical work, lawn care and tree trimming and the number get's pretty big.  I want to sell but the wife likes having a home.  In addition to the down payment, 20 years of monthly payments, the overall cost to live in the house likely exceeds, by a significant margin, todays selling price. 

Looking at the big picture buying a house to be your home is a known good outcome, most of the time.

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  I guess "most of the time" sums it up.  It's a bit of a crap shoot.  Usually the outcome is favorable.  But it's not guaranteed.  Not because somebody spent too much on STUFF.  Just because of bad luck and timing.  One of my daughters and son-in-law, a very conservative couple, moved up to a new home at the peak of the market and saw the value drop by more than 20% over the next year.  Next the son-in-law, an employee of one of CITI Copr's subs lost his job when CITI was in trouble.  A casualty of the fall out following the collapse of Lehman Brothers.  Something beyond their control.  They've recovered and are doing well but there are no guarantees. 

As a retired employee of a Fortune 100 company, closely associated with the benefits organization, I was very much aware of the uncertainty surrounding pension plans.  The PBGC was at risk of going broke because of the number of private pension plans going south.  Employees of public pension plans where the government has the power to tax the people, have an element of protection retirees of private plans do not get.  If the PBGC fails, my guess is the Government will attempt to resolve the problem by increasing the tax on the remaining plans.  That will negatively impact those plans that were adequately funded.  That would place my own retirement at risk.  Something I would have no control over.   

Tin man said:

Ken;

My brothers name.

  Our lives seem to run parallel. I also held a second job, (several) my bride does not believe woman should not work. Should not be dependent on spouse.  After children were in school she went back to work. A second pension, it was her money.
I think our choices were inspired by our parents and how they lived.  As they say the "Apple does not fall far from the tree."

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This parallels a lot of my life.  Only instead of a second job, I worked all the overtime that came up, and lived on my base pay, banking the OT money.  I always based my ability to pay back loans on my base pay income, not including the overtime money I earned, which easily doubled or more than doubled my base pay earnings.  The reason I did this, is because I watched people I worked with fret, whenever overtime was cut due to budget cuts, but the big house, or luxury cars they bought, still had the same payments, but they didn't have the same income to pay these loans with.
My other half is retiring in 18 shifts from the Fire Department, she will begin collecting her pension at the end of the year, followed by Social Security a few years after that.  She plans on working part-time for the next few years in the medical field, until her Social Security kicks in, then retiring completely.  So from the perspective of having enough income to live on, we should be all set, as long as we don't go crazy in our spending.

I learned to save from my parents.  They lived through the depression, and told me many times, how bad things got.  They both came from large families, 7 and 8 kids in each family, and my grandparents all came over from the old country, and all supported their families the best they could, especially through the depression.
My parents were each big advocates of education.  My cousins and I were the first generation in our family to go to college. 
My parents both had government jobs, as did all my aunts and uncles, because of the job security and benefits.  If there were five things I learned, it was to have job security of a government job, health insurance, a pension, borrow as little money as you could, because of the interest you'll have to pay on the money you borrow, and to save money, and NEVER dip into the principle.

This advice has served me well.  Not so much for my kids though, who have decided to live for today, and tomorrow will take care of itself.  But they are starting to come around, and are at least starting to understand, as they have kids of their own, that they need to plan for the future, and not just have the newest and best I Phone, cars, and other trappings, which are really above their means.

Some people never learn though!