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Author Topic: Perplexing problem  (Read 2555 times)

2014CF

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Perplexing problem
« on: November 01, 2015, 01:05:13 PM »
Hi,  we have a 2014 Coachmen Freelander Chevy 4500 that is causing us a perplexing problem.    The rv starts one time and then an hour or so later it won't start.   We replaced the cabin battery, both batteries are strong.   We've tried all 3 keys, attempted to start in neutral and jiggled the shifter.   Still won't start.    We are planning a trip and don't want to be stranded but are at a loss as to what could be wrong.   Any help would be greatly appreciated from our fellow travelers.

Rene T

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2015, 01:10:45 PM »
Does it even turn over?
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

2014CF

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 01:18:53 PM »
Hi, and thank you, yes it turns over and starts/drives.   All lights come on the dash.

2014CF

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2015, 01:20:19 PM »
I should say, it starts/turns over/drives at one time and then a few hours later the dash lights come on and won't start at all

oldme

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2015, 01:31:43 PM »
People use "starts" for different meanings.
To me "Start" means cranks and runs.
Not "Starting" means the motor cranks bit does not run.
Two different situations.

It it does not crank I would be looking at the starter / starter solenoid.
Start by cleaning all connections.

If it cranks but does not run, then I would look for ignition and fuel supply problems.

2014CF

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2015, 01:55:49 PM »
The rv starts; we moved it from one spot in the yard to another and let it run 15 minutes earlier today.   A few hours later tried to start it; the dash lights came on and it would not crank at all.  This has happened several time this past week.   thank you for your help.

Rene T

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2015, 02:04:08 PM »
Have you checked your battery connections. Make sure they are clean and tight.
Rene & Lucille & co-pilot Buddy
AKA  Pep N Mem
2011 Chevy Duramax 2500 HD 4X4
2011 Montana High Country 343RL
From the Granite State of NH
& Florida Snowbird in Lakeland FL

Saab guy

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2015, 03:32:03 PM »
Hi you say it does not crank over, can you reach the starter solinoid if you can take a test light and see if you have power to the main battery terminal than have someone turn the key and ck to see if you have power to the smaller wire that's  the start wire please make sure you are not near the moving part when key is turned.if no power could be ign switch. They did have a problem with the power connection from starter to solinoid breaking at the starter. Good luck. If that doesn't work post again and I'll look up sch

John From Detroit

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 04:24:47 PM »
There are several differnet things with several different causes

One problem. I often ask people if they know what the biggest problem is with a Class A?  They shake their head, I hold up most of my key ring (The ignition key may be missing) and say "They all fit" (on my ring the Ignition key is detachable  Just three keys on the "Sub" ring, Ignition (MH) Ignition (Car) Bicycle padlock.

All that weight can cause damage to the ignition switch.. at least on SOME vehicles where the cylinder (lock cylinder) Operates the switch dirtectly.

ON other vehicles the actual swiche may be anywhere from an inch to a couple feet away operated by a rack (the cylinder operates the mathing Pinion) and again all that weight can cause failure of the rack to fully operate the switch.

Another failure mode... You turn the key and it acts like dead battery...

Low battery,  Old battery,  Dirty connections (Mine used to be the batteyr positive till I fixed it) BAD STARTER.

Older vehicles with cam shaft operated fuel pumps (Gasoline type) Suffered Vapor lock. Theory has it the newer "in tank" fuel pumps are Vapor Lock proof.

And this is just a short sample of different "It will not start" and different causes.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

Molaker

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2015, 04:35:40 PM »
It could be the park/neutral switch. Try moving the shifter into the neutral position (must turn key on).
Tom & Joyce and Ditto the "don't tell her she's a dog" Westie
U.S. Navy (Ret)
2014 Winnebago ERA 70X 24' class B Sprinter chassis

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2015, 04:44:52 PM »
Won't crank could be a bad connection on the starter wiring, a defective starter (a bad spot of the motor armature), or a defective park/neutral switch (it won't crank unless the switch signals it is in Park or Neutral).
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

Garyi

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2015, 06:38:30 PM »
Turn on and watch headlights. If lights go out or dim when you try to crank you have a bad connection at battery or cables, if lights stay on bright check crank signal wire at starter for power when in crank mode with key. If test shows power at starter crank terminal starter is bad. This is not unusual for GM starters

Nomadb1

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2015, 11:27:51 PM »
I had an old truck that used to just not crank every now and then.  I'd always have to jump the starter from the main terminal to the solinoid with a screw driver.

Found out that when it would not start it was only getting 10v to the solinoid but most of the time got 13.5v.  It took a while but I finally figured out that one of the 8 or so wires on the connector to the ignition was pushing back into the socket when it was connected to the ignition, such that it was only pushed up against the blade not seated on it properly - once it finally spewed all the factory smoke up from behind the dash it was relatively easy to diagnose - I would highly recommend finding the cause before that point - but it worked for me ;)

Good luck,
Brian

Lisle part 20750 remote start switch
Attach one clip from large lead from battery to starter
Attach other lead to side of solinoid from ignition. (Gets 12v when key on start)

The copper lead in the pic and the small one at the top. Make sure the key is on when you do it. This will force the starter to crank. It won't fix your problem but it will keep you from being stuck and is safer then a small screwdriver and burnt fingers - ask me how I know.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 11:51:59 PM by Nomadb1 »
2004 Yukon XL The "Beast"
2004 Thor Tahoe 19UD 4300# Escape pod
3 Kids
2 Scrappy Pointers,
1 Beloved Bride

2014CF

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2015, 04:55:53 PM »
Thank you to everyone who replied to our perplexing problem.   Our rv cranked/started/ran last night and 3 separate times today.   Don't know might have caused this problem.   Will be cranking it up on a regular basis to make sure we aren't stranded on our upcoming trip.   Thank you again to the folks of this wonderful forum.   Happy and safe travels to all.

2014CF

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2015, 06:08:20 AM »
Wanted to update the folks that were so very nice to attempt to help us with our perplexing problem.   Come to find out it was a faulty starter sensor- which was replaced at no charge. Thank you again to the fine folks of the great forum!   Happy and safe travels to all.

OLDRACER

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 08:52:43 PM »
Upsetting to those of us old coots who developed and fine tuned our automotive  knowledge well before there WERE such things as "starter sensors".

Oh well...............

halfwright

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 09:10:39 PM »
Oldracer,

The starter sensor I am used to is looking close to the flywheel housing and saying, " Yep, it has a starter."
Jim And Darlene Wright
Full-timing with
Ryder, the Ethiopian monkeybeaver dog
and a
2007 Montana Mountaineer
2002 F250 Super duty 7.3 liter

William52

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 10:54:05 PM »
Wanted to update the folks that were so very nice to attempt to help us with our perplexing problem.   Come to find out it was a faulty starter sensor- which was replaced at no charge. Thank you again to the fine folks of the great forum!   Happy and safe travels to all.
This is a gas eng? Never heard Of a starter sensor, Crank sensor yes. Was check engine light on?
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. Yes I am old school.         2007 Honda VTX double dark side

cgmartin

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2015, 01:05:08 AM »
2014CF, are you stepping on the brake when turning the key? Some makes have a switch that is released when you step on the brake. When this switch fails, or is loosened, the vehicle will not start.

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2015, 07:16:48 AM »
Another "starter sensor" might be the starter-neutral switch, which prevents cranking unless the transmission is in Park or Neutral. A faulty one would have the symptoms described here.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

John From Detroit

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2015, 07:31:09 AM »
Suspect #1: Neutral park switch.. When it does not start,, Try moving the gear shift down to Drive then back to park, also try starting in Neutral instead of park.. If this works the switch may be either bad or out of adjustment.

Suspect 2: Starter relay. Loose connection or bad relay  On some engines there may be a relay somewhere on the firewall or fender well. ON the starter, or both.

Suspect 3: The starter itself.  But I doubt it.

Suspect 4 The flywheel..or ring gear.. (Flywheel on manual shift)  Note this is more like suspect 44 (Way down from 3)
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

William52

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  • Common sense is not common anymore.
Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2015, 03:41:41 PM »
Wanted to update the folks that were so very nice to attempt to help us with our perplexing problem.   Come to find out it was a faulty starter sensor- which was replaced at no charge. Thank you again to the fine folks of the great forum!   Happy and safe travels to all.
Its fixed folks Crank sensor will cause a Cranks but will not start. Most of the time a code will set in PCM, sometimes not.
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. Yes I am old school.         2007 Honda VTX double dark side

John From Detroit

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Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2015, 05:50:30 PM »
Ah a Crank(Shaft) sensor is different from a starter device.. The crankshaft position sensor is what fires the ignition system on a Gasser. They use it instead of breaker points.. It is a very reliable device (Almost never fails. key word ALMOST)   But when it does it is the same as if the points fail on an older engine that uses breaker points.
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
My Home is where I park it.

William52

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  • Common sense is not common anymore.
Re: Perplexing problem
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 06:35:47 PM »
Ah a Crank(Shaft) sensor is different from a starter device.. The crankshaft position sensor is what fires the ignition system on a Gasser. They use it instead of breaker points.. It is a very reliable device (Almost never fails. key word ALMOST)   But when it does it is the same as if the points fail on an older engine that uses breaker points.
More so a timing reference input to PCM for spark and fuel injection ,tells  the computer where #1 is. Also a cam sensor, that's another story. One thing for sure will cause a no start and can be intermittent.
2000 Pace Arrow M35N F53 V10 Ford  100,000 + miles purrs like a kitten. Yes I am old school.         2007 Honda VTX double dark side

 

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